Should the Australian Rugby Championship come back.

[RugbyFuture]

even wollahra, tg milner, manly, coogee and uni?

and concord?

 

[chief]

I think this should be as easy as this. Start Premier Grade and 1st Grade competitions a lot earlier. So they should finish in about early July. Start competition in August. Make it a 10 week competition (8 teams, 1 semi final, 1 Final).

For QLD, three teams. Sunny Coast are really liking there Rugby, I think it could be successful down there, Brisbane team. And maybe a Gold Coast team. Skilled Park costs a lot to rent, so find some small little suburban ground to play at. Last time they got shitty little crowds (900 people). The Brisbane team should play at Easts Rugby Club. Let's face it, the crowds will be shit, Easts have a great little grandstand. The rest can be General Admission. Ballymore is just to f*cking hard to get to. Sunny Coast can play at Quad Park, seems perfect size for such an event.

Get all the Sydney teams to play at little shitty ovals. Mind you I have no clue where to chuck the teams. Gosford seems like a good place as well.

Sell the rights to One HD for $1 let's face it, it's not worth that much either. And ONE HD has no Australian sport, everything on One is shitty American sports.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Make it a 10 week competition (8 teams, 1 semi final, 1 Final).

Are you proposing a bye week, chief? Eight teams playing one round only takes seven weeks - at least in New South Wales.

 

[TOCC]

much of those travel costs where based on hotel accomodation etc. i seem to recall the poeple who wanted it to continue said that by flying in and then out etc, rather than treating it like a super rugby franchise they could reduce costs by upto 3 mil. most of the sponsorships that current clubs have also wouldnt survive into a new national comp team and the resources indeed could be shared, all im saying is that you'd have to force associations like the original model and i would also make sure that the uni's/ex private schoolers teams wouldnt be able to push their name onto anything. bad for the image in trying to attract a wider audience.

4th column in my table

flying was the single most exspensive issue, which if as you suggest we jump into a nation wide competition will become a issue once again, even with a fly in/fly out proposal.

Im aware the sponsorship would not transition contractually into the new competition, but what you have is a established relationship with sponsors, making it a hell of a lot easier to re-sign or upgrade. Its about a established brand image which already has a old-boys network upon which they can call to boost there corporate side.

Not including a Uni team in a new competition is a no-brainer, its highly unlikely that either UQ or Sydney Uni are about to financially back a professional team anyway.

The original model didn't force associations, it completely alienated the, associations, sydney clubs and brisbane clubs were having boycotts(masquerading as family events) on the same day that there 'alleged' ARC team was playing. They had zero input into the control and function of the respective ARC teams.



You cannot create a new tier above club rugby, it wont work, the clubs wont allow it. You need to embrace the clubs and empower them to create there own new tier, this is the only way that it will be supported by the clubs. By placing a team in a geographic reason and associating it with a few different clubs wont achieve anything, you are forcing a association upon these clubs.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Not including a Uni team in a new competition is a no-brainer, its highly unlikely that either UQ or Sydney Uni are about to financially back a professional team anyway.

The original model didn't force associations, it completely alienated the, associations, sydney clubs and brisbane clubs were having boycotts(masquerading as family events) on the same day that there 'alleged' ARC team was playing. They had zero input into the control and function of the respective ARC teams.

You cannot create a new tier above club rugby, it wont work, the clubs wont allow it. You need to embrace the clubs and empower them to create there own new tier, this is the only way that it will be supported by the clubs. By placing a team in a geographic reason and associating it with a few different clubs wont achieve anything, you are forcing a association upon these clubs.

Where were you in the lead-up to the introduction of the ARC, TOCC? Sydney Uni spent five years preparing for the introduction of what was to be the Australian Club Championship. They had the funding; they had the players. In the event NSWRU hi-jacked the four franchises allotted to New South Wales, gave one to Melbourne and created three synthetics. The best laugh was Manly and Warringah players being expected to play at Gosford. Not a great distance by sea but you'd want to pack a cut lunch travelling by road.

Which Sydney clubs "were having boycotts(masquerading as family events) on the same day that there 'alleged' ARC team was playing"?

I agree that the Sydney clubs "had zero input into the control and function of the respective ARC teams." However, that didn't stop Sydney Uni contributing 33 players to the competition.

I also agree totally with your concluding paragraph.

 

[wamberal]

even wollahra, tg milner, manly, coogee and uni?

and concord?

League is played at Millner - Ryde-Eastwood play there, or used to. Manly is a a council ground, as is Coogee. League rep teams stay in Coogee and train at Coogee Oval. Wests Tigers train at Concord.

 

[Bowside]

I dont understand why the clubs get in such a huff about this. At the end of the day, they all have to play by the same rules, and the long term beneifits of growing the game far outweigh the 5 or so players they might lose to an ARC style comp.

On another note, if you were to split the qld clubs into 2 provinces, the 'northern' province would be made up of: Sunshine Coast, Norths, Brothers, GPS, and Easts. While Uni, Souths, Wests, Sunnybank and Gold Coast would make up the south. At this point in time the southern province would have it all over the northern. But I think you would find some guys would move to a northern club if it meant they might get a run in the northern province team.

Anyone care to split the shute shield into two provinces. I would but I lack sufficent knowledge of the areas?

 

[H...]

Sell the rights to One HD for $1 let's face it, it's not worth that much either. And ONE HD has no Australian sport, everything on One is shitty American sports.

Optimistic, given that the ARU had to pay the ABC something like $50K to get them to show it.

 

[H...]

I dont understand why the clubs get in such a huff about this. At the end of the day, they all have to play by the same rules, and the long term beneifits of growing the game far outweigh the 5 or so players they might lose to an ARC style comp.

They don't want to go from being a 3rd tier comp to a 4th tier comp. Agree with it or not, not that hard to understand.

 

[RugbyFuture]

League is played at Millner - Ryde-Eastwood play there, or used to. Manly is a a council ground, as is Coogee. League rep teams stay in Coogee and train at Coogee Oval. Wests Tigers train at Concord.

yes but eastwood own milner and ryde eastwood dont exist as their own entity anymore. and concord rugby could hijack, im also pretty sure randwick council would do what Randwick asked. manly is pretty big with that too.

 

[RugbyFuture]

in terms of selling the rights to one HD i reckon you could do it.

in terms of my argument with TOCC

they can have input i agree, none the less synthetics have to be created in this modern age to demand attention, sponsorship and a proffesional face.

perhaps rather than NSWRU forcing them to cooperate they should "ask" them. they should all be looking at helping australian rugby wholistically rather than for themselves. they'll always be recognised as the ones who kept rugby alive. just look at mungoball.

in terms of chiefs suggestion, you would be looking at concord oval, north sydney oval and parramatta stadium. though it would be slightly askew

 

[Scarfman]

Look guys, there's only 2 options.

1. ARC-style, where grade rugby becomes the 4th tier

2. NZ-style, where you have conferences, so that the lower clubs make up the 4th and 5th tiers.

Clubs like Southern Districts are going to be going down a tier no matter what. The only difference is those rich, successful clubs who are competing with the ARC to run a 3rd tier.

For my money, I'm only weakly connected to a Shute Shield team, but I loved following the Rams in the ARC.

 

[Bowside]

With the way the super 15 season is to be played next year, the ARU should have the 5 super teams (Minus wallaby squad players) play each other as curtain raisers to 3n and bledisode cup games.

Costs would be minimal, and it would give guys coming back from injury or from overseas, like Dan Vickerman, a chance to prove themselves. Might also be a good opurtunity to blood some young acedemy blokes for the second half of the super 15 season.

 

[TOCC]

Rugbyfuture, in the event that the NSWRU asks the clubs what they want for a ARC, the clubs will come back and tell them that they want there own clubs to be represented... What then do you propose, that the NSWRU/ARU ignore these requests and peruse there geographic association plan???

Additionally as pointed out, the ARU had to pay to get the ARC broadcast, your proposal is to costly, a team based in Adelaide and Townsville?? Where will they train, where will they live, what facilities are they going to use, who will sponsor them.

Get rid of the Adelaide team, the Perth team, the Townsville team and the Melbourne team and your comp might be financially sustainable..


Bruceross, club championships and a fully professional rugby team are different, it's highly unlikely that the UNI boards will approve multi $million budgets to run a pro team, there is no benefit for them to do this as a university, it's unheard of in Australia..

I can't remember off the top of me headn which sydney teams boycotted the ARC with family days on ARC match days, would have to look back into the archives, it did indeed happen though.

 

[Ruggo]

Return the ARC as it was. At the same time, bring the ARS back. Both elite and regional rugby will benefit. The greatest thing about that year of ARC was the good showing of the Western Sydney team. The game needs to expand to thrive in the professional market. It won’t be easy but it is necessary.

 

[Sully]

What would be wrong with a "Top 8" or "Top 10" type comp like France. Bring the top performing teams from last years best Australian comps to fight it out. Would give the Clubs 6 months to get ready and would give clubs something extra to work towards financially and playing wise each year.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruceross, club championships and a fully professional rugby team are different, it's highly unlikely that the UNI boards will approve multi $million budgets to run a pro team, there is no benefit for them to do this as a university, it's unheard of in Australia..

TOCC, I can now see where you were coming from with your earlier comment:

"Not including a Uni team in a new competition is a no-brainer, its highly unlikely that either UQ or Sydney Uni are about to financially back a professional team anyway."

The assumption that you and a lot of other people make is that the third tier would necessarily be made up of professional teams with "multi $million budgets". However, this doesn't have to be the case as shown by the situation when the previous ARC was introduced.

At that time - and now - Sydney Uni was not paying its players. Some were on very modest scholarships, a very small fraction of what they were offered to play for the ARC franchises. As I pointed out above, 33 Sydney Uni players ended up participating in the ARC competition. I believe that almost without exception they would have preferred to play for their club in that competition even if they weren't paid.

At the first grade level the Sydney Premiership competition is semi-professional in the sense that most players get paid something. Uni is an exception to that, yet they train and play for 11 months of the year and willingly participate in physical conditioning programs that are at least equivalent to those at the Super franchises. To those who refuse to believe that players would be prepared to do that without being paid I would ask why do rowers train for 25 hours a week without any remuneration?

There is nothing wrong with players being paid, but the primary purpose of a third tier competition should be the development of players who progress to higher levels. The most cost effective way of implementing this would surely be to have a situation where players are not faced with the expense and disruption of having to relocate for a relatively short competition.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Rugbyfuture, in the event that the NSWRU asks the clubs what they want for a ARC, the clubs will come back and tell them that they want there own clubs to be represented... What then do you propose, that the NSWRU/ARU ignore these requests and peruse there geographic association plan???

Additionally as pointed out, the ARU had to pay to get the ARC broadcast, your proposal is to costly, a team based in Adelaide and Townsville?? Where will they train, where will they live, what facilities are they going to use, who will sponsor them.

Get rid of the Adelaide team, the Perth team, the Townsville team and the Melbourne team and your comp might be financially sustainable..

yes. otherwise theres no point to the domestic comp. its just the QPR and Shute Shield combined. in fact, you can just have them play in those two pools and have the winners of the grand finals play eachother....oh wait....


Read the actual picture by its key and the comment above it, the townsville, newcastle etc etc teams dont exist until sustainability is achieved.

adelaide is included so that rugby can get a small foothold somewhere other than where everything is and also gives a secondary feeder for the brumbies, rebels and the force.

this provides a means to keep those teams from just ending up the state teams.

The overflow was only 5 mil. they proposed they could rid this debt of 2-3 mil. that leaves 2 sydney houses as debt. thats almost the same debt my parents have.

 

[stoff]

The overflow was only 5 mil. they proposed they could rid this debt of 2-3 mil. that leaves 2 sydney houses as debt. thats almost the same debt my parents have.

The ARU is sitting on a net position of about $15m in assets etc at the moment. They ran a deficit last year due to member union allocations, and these allocations will increase due to the Rebels getting $3m/year out of the broadcast rights, and being entitled to loans of $1.3m a year for the next two. I'm not sure, but I doubt from what I have seen that the increased broadcast rights will cover this. There is also the bail out of the QRU over and above this. The ARU can't afford to lose a couple of Sydney houses each year.

 

[Slim 293]

It's a shame the ARU can't tell the Sydney clubs to go fuck themselves...

It's frustrating as a Canberra fan who wants to see a Canberra team compete against interstate rivals...

Yet there's no complaints from the clubs here... even when the Canberra team (Vikings) is named and operated by one of the clubs it feeds from...

I'd love to see what kind of team we could field now with players from the local comp. and bringing back those that have been forced to move to the Shute Shield for more exposure (like most of Randwick's backrowers)...