Should the ARU sue the Boks if they send an under strength side?

[exmatelote]

I just read in "The Australian" that PDV might drag his 2nd XV over here for their away tests. As I have tickets to the Sydney test against SA, I am a wee bit annoyed at paying top dollar to watch a bunch of second stringers.

I've had this chat before about other incidents, e.g. the Bulls/Stormers game last year when the bulls fielded a 2nd team and of course in 2007 when the wallabies laboured to a win over a 2nd team. '

My view is pretty obvious, it ought not be allowed in a commercial sport (I said to a bok fan I am mates with that if he is prepared to pay top dollar weeks in advance only to get a team arrive weakened and not want a discount, I have a good used car to sell him).

Anyone know how in practice it would work if J'ON does what he suggested last time and sues?

 

[Ignoto]

What would you be suing for?

Proving there was some form of loss would be pretty hard fetch, because you wouldn't know if the game was going to be sold out in the first place.

More importantly, where would you sue? How can the Aussie courts enforce any sort of ruling on the SA team? And if you sue in SA, you run the risk of them just laughing at you.

The better approach would be the IRB or SANZAR (Kiwis + Aus essemble) and fine De Villers plus the SA Rugby Board for being dicks.

 

[TheNextBigThing]

I'd say do nothing.

The ARU has much less bargaining power with SA. We need them more than they need us.

Furthermore, last time De Villiers pulled this sort of thing, we very nearly lost. There were two starting Springboks in the team and we only won 25-17, after being down 17-0. Don't risk the fallout from condemning the inbound team as easy beats and then losing.

 

[Groucho]

We shouldn't sue 'em. We should crush 'em. See how they feel if they come up against us having suffered a 49-0 loss. No one will care if it was their B team. It'd be feral.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm with Groucho on this. Let them send a second string outfit if they want and hopefully we can be at or near full strength and give 'em a paddling. If we can't, then we aren't worthy of second favourites tag for the RWC.

Does anyone remember how good it felt cane England in 1998 when they sent that squad down here? I do!

 

[waratahjesus]

There was talk of the ARU getting compensation from northern teams who failed to tour with there best sides. Season or two ago.

I would assume the grounds for this sort of thing would depend on the wording of the contracts the unions singed to compete in the tri nations. If the books are breaking them then I say sue there arses. South Africa always brings up this bar ginning crap but they need the competition just as much as we do. Note that th books are playing full strength at home, proving that they care about there own fans.

 

[exmatelote]

Some points (and thanks for commenting)

1) If it were me, I'd be suing for the lost TV and ticket revenue. According to the article I linked, J'ON suggested the ARU lost 760K in 2007 as a result of this. I expect the TV companies will not be pleased either - they didn't like the AB conditioning program and released some dollar value to the lost TV viewing from weakend super sides for that.

2) A contract such as the SANZAR agreement is enforcable by law, of that there can be abolsutely no doubt. breaches to it are subject to legal action, that's the whole point of having contracts, you provide motivation for other party to stick to it. There will be a clause allowing for that.

3) I'm not sure we need them more than they need us, it's pretty even. The SA Rand is not a strong currency and they are not gonna get into any other league than SANZAR / Super. As a result they need us to make up the difference in cash as they can't do it with the RAND, no matter what their crowd figures are. J'ON knows this.

I started the thread on a commercial line, we follow a professional sport and it's hard enough compting with the salaries on ofer in France and Japan as it is and the ARU has taken a few haircuts recently on other stuff. I agree with the points made about thrashing a second XV and I mentioned the wallabies squeaking home in 2007. Personally I'd rather see a match like the home test last year, a good thumping, no excuses.

 

[Set piece magic]

I was at brisbane in 2006 for "that game" and I say let them send a 2nd string team over here, let us play our A+ side and give them the biggest annihlation in Tri Nations history. That would teach them.

 

[Bullrush]

I was at brisbane in 2006 for "that game" and I say let them send a 2nd string team over here, let us play our A+ side and give them the biggest annihlation in Tri Nations history. That would teach them.

Would it though? They obviously don't care if they lose....

 

[antipodean]

I just read in "The Australian" that PDV might drag his 2nd XV over here for their away tests. As I have tickets to the Sydney test against SA, I am a wee bit annoyed at paying top dollar to watch a bunch of second stringers.

Probably how the Boks felt in 2008 at Ellis Park...

It's symptomatic of the disproportionate value the World Cup has in Test rugby ethos.

 

[qwerty51]

Who cares, to their detriment.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Every test is important, RWC or not. If other nations choose to devalue it, their problem not ours.

 

[Set piece magic]

Pretty sure they would be the national embarassment if they got thumped, but if they don't get the message then, sue them for double points...

 

[Mank]

From a South African's perspective:

I want to win every single test. I don't like seeing a Springbok cap devalued. Sending easy beats will be unacceptable.

However, most SAns are pretty irked with the new S100 format and the extended length of the season. I realise I'm on an Australian forum here so I'll try to say this as nicely as possible. There is a view that the new format is to the benefit of Australia first and foremost, whereas it is not in the better interest of SA. Much longer S100 season, eats into NH inbound tours, eats into tri-nations, pushes everything back, screws up the Currie Cup which has been a big part of most South Africans rugby memories growing up. Do we need to see the Bulls vs Sharks 4 times in one season? Not really. I'm sure you've heard all that before. I bring it up to illustrate that because of the ridiculous length of the season caused by the extended S100, I would not mind if the coach rests some top players who need the rest, and sends some fresh players who are on the verge of the squad anyway. Arguably the first choice team the coach would pick right now is not comprised of the form players anyway. It's nothing new in international rugby. Mainly I want to see a competitive tri-nations and I'd like to see what value some of the form players add.

 

[qwerty51]

I won't argue the new format suits only Australia but everyone's on the same playing field here. The Springboks don't need anymore rest than the Wallabies or Kiwis. Keep the best 22 and rotate within that. That's 7 somewhat fresh players every week.

 

[Mank]

I won't argue the new format suits only Australia but everyone's on the same playing field here. The Springboks don't need anymore rest than the Wallabies or Kiwis. Keep the best 22 and rotate within that. That's 7 somewhat fresh players every week.

SA still have the Currie Cup to play, the Kiwis have the NPC. Australians should rightly love the new S100 format as it fills the role of their domestic comp. I'm not sure what you mean by level playing field, but SAns will be playing more games this year than Aussies.

 

[qwerty51]

What's the reference to S100? A play on that it keeps going up every few years or something?

How is their domestic comps relevant? The top players (who are the ones that are being rested here) don't participate in those before the WC. So yes the playing field is exactly the same. This is if we're all building towards the WC - which you should be.

 

[Mank]

Yes, the reference is correct.

Right, I understand what you mean by level playing field in this particular year then. Is it confirmed that the "top" players do not play in the Currie Cup? Well, hardly surprising since the Currie Cup starts in July and so will the tri-nations. It'll be worse next year and the point is that in general SA players will be playing more games and our CC devalued. Anyway, I understand the ARUs and the fans sentiments but I'll stand my original post, I'm happy enough if some of the form S15 (ok?) players are given a go in the tri-nations. You'd be pretty hard pressed to make any legal case about who the best players are. Your SA top 22 may look quite different from someone else.

That apart, I did hear a rumour that there was a hand shake agreement that all three nations would be sending first choice teams? No idea if this is true.

 

[exmatelote]

Probably how the Boks felt in 2008 at Ellis Park...

It's symptomatic of the disproportionate value the World Cup has in Test rugby ethos.

Your comment relates to the 50 odd point hiding and is off topic as Australia fielded a weakened line up through injury, not deliverate resting of players. not gonna go further with this one.

 

[Balls_SlanderandRuck]

Don't! The day SA actually fields its '2nd' XV they'll start beating us again. Let PDV buy into the illusion that his current 1st XV are unstoppable!