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Sharks v Reds Rnd 5 2014

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tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
I said this in the Reds Thread, but I reckon McDuling at 6/8 could really benefit us against the Sharks pack, which lets be honest, if fucking terrifying.

Losing bonus point will make me content.
 

Ignoto

Peter Sullivan (51)
Hard to fit both Robinson and Gill into the backrow effectively though.


Looking at the stitches Gilly has over his eye, is there a time-frame on when he can return to contact?

I haven't followed the progress of the Sharks, what makes them so invincible? Has their squad significantly improved from last year where they lost to the Reds?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Looking at the stitches Gilly has over his eye, is there a time-frame on when he can return to contact?

I haven't followed the progress of the Sharks, what makes them so invincible? Has their squad significantly improved from last year where they lost to the Reds?

I'm not sure. I've heard that Gill is determined to play, but he'd also be non-contact for most of the week's training. Maybe the issue will be out of his hands and wanting to run contact sessions will mean that Robinson starts ahead of him.

I think the Sharks are a bit like the Tahs in that they're now a settled team and are continuing to improve. The lack of changes to their lineup from last year is so far paying dividends and they're playing some good rugby behind a strong forward pack.

Jake White coming into the picture seems to be helping more than it's hurting too.

Based on what I've seen this season the Reds won't be competitive with the Sharks in Durban unless they play substantially better than in any of their three games so far.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
Reds will struggle to win in Africa in my view. Sharks are in top form and the Lions have come back to the comp with a new level of determination.

Wasn't overly impressed with the Reds on Friday. First time I've tipped against the Reds in a long time.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Sharks look pretty good so far, very tough, very ruthless.

I just can't see the Reds coping with the sustained pressure
 

biggsy

Chilla Wilson (44)
Been awhile since I wasn't confident in the reds and Can't see them winning Both games in S.A. I hope I'm proven wrong with wins and much improved performance to get the win.
Something has to change quickly...... Stop the Stupid penalties would be a good start
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
The scene is set with people left, right and center writing off the Reds. I am looking for maybe a bit of Stormers 2011 in Cape Town. We were no chance either that day.

We have to man up, up front and lay the foundation for a high tempo game. Our lineout needs to be on song to repel the long kicking game they will use on us. I would like us to really have a crack at attacking their ball also. They will kick and they will drive, so we need to put heat on their lineout. At scrum time we just got to focus on securing our own ball. We must start Holmes and Slipper. I don't care which hooker we start as I have faith in both of them. This will need to be an 80 minute performance to pull it off.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I'm not sure. I've heard that Gill is determined to play, but he'd also be non-contact for most of the week's training. Maybe the issue will be out of his hands and wanting to run contact sessions will mean that Robinson starts ahead of him.

I think the Sharks are a bit like the Tahs in that they're now a settled team and are continuing to improve. The lack of changes to their lineup from last year is so far paying dividends and they're playing some good rugby behind a strong forward pack.

Jake White coming into the picture seems to be helping more than it's hurting too.

Based on what I've seen this season the Reds won't be competitive with the Sharks in Durban unless they play substantially better than in any of their three games so far.

Like and dislike all your latest Reds assessments BH - 'like' meaning I think they're insightful, accurate and fair, 'dislike' in that they're painfully true and a number of your identified shortcomings in our team are quite obvious, could have been fixed throughout 2013, but, on 2014's performances, appear not to have been.

The 'proven formula' for beating the recent Reds started to emerge in 2013 for teams that could adopt and execute it, the Cru really put it on display in the 2013 QF and the Tahs this year skilfully refined it further, namely:

- (a) have a forward pack that quickly overwhelms the Reds' pack in terms of strength, intensity, accuracy and offensive defence and exposes their often lower capabilities in these key skill areas. Get the Reds' pack highly rattled by 30 or so mins in, then turn up the blow torch another notch and watch the Reds' forwards get worse in broken play and start to yield multiple unforced penalties;​
- (b) deriving principally from (a), neutralise a nowadays regressed and wayward Genia and ditto a dynamic Cooper who's clearly suffering from a lack of coherent, consistent attacking support patterns from his key backs especially 12, 11, 15 (resulting in high, unsustainable pressure on Cooper to 'carry the whole attack' all of the time principally with wide and often risky passes);​
- (c) undermine the Reds' attack and confidence further by attacking with fast chains of superior offloading and short passes, exposing the Reds' generally poorer standards in both;​
- (d) use an 80%+ place kicker as Cooper has replaced Harris' superior kicking skill and sits at mid-70%s at best, typically (btw, see how well the Sharks are place kicking);​
- (e) leverage the fact that the current Reds' defence gets fragile and uncertain when, particularly, (a) and (c) are combined;​
- (f) punish the current Reds ordinary kick-and-chase game when deployed by having your back three counter attack very aggressively off Reds' messy open field kicks.​

Now, if the Reds themselves can find a way to counter the 'latest proven formula' for killing them, either by stunning ingenuity (a la the game plan V Stormers 2011) or by raw, disciplined improvement in their skill levels of a kind that fixes number of the above weaknesses, then they can start to beat the best teams again. This is unlikely to happen quickly though, these weaknesses may take a humbling period of bad losses against the best teams for the required reawakening to occur.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Saturday 15 March Sharks v Reds Growthpoint KINGS PARK 17:05

Referee: Lourens van der Merwe
AR1: Jaco van Heerden
AR2: Stefan Breytenbach
TMO: Shaun Veldsman
 

emuarse

Chilla Wilson (44)
Like and dislike all your latest Reds assessments BH - 'like' meaning I think they're insightful, accurate and fair, 'dislike' in that they're painfully true and a number of your identified shortcomings in our team are quite obvious, could have been fixed throughout 2013, but, on 2014's performances, appear not to have been.

The 'proven formula' for beating the recent Reds started to emerge in 2013 for teams that could adopt and execute it, the Cru really put it on display in the 2013 QF and the Tahs this year skilfully refined it further, namely:

- (a) have a forward pack that quickly overwhelms the Reds' pack in terms of strength, intensity, accuracy and offensive defence and exposes their often lower capabilities in these key skill areas. Get the Reds' pack highly rattled by 30 or so mins in, then turn up the blow torch another notch and watch the Reds' forwards get worse in broken play and start to yield multiple unforced penalties;​
- (b) deriving principally from (a), neutralise a nowadays regressed and wayward Genia and ditto a dynamic Cooper who's clearly suffering from a lack of coherent, consistent attacking support patterns from his key backs especially 12, 11, 15 (resulting in high, unsustainable pressure on Cooper to 'carry the whole attack' all of the time principally with wide and often risky passes);​
- (c) undermine the Reds' attack and confidence further by attacking with fast chains of superior offloading and short passes, exposing the Reds' generally poorer standards in both;​
- (d) use an 80%+ place kicker as Cooper has replaced Harris' superior kicking skill and sits at mid-70%s at best, typically (btw, see how well the Sharks are place kicking);​
- (e) leverage the fact that the current Reds' defence gets fragile and uncertain when, particularly, (a) and (c) are combined;​
- (f) punish the current Reds ordinary kick-and-chase game when deployed by having your back three counter attack very aggressively off Reds' messy open field kicks.​

Now, if the Reds themselves can find a way to counter the 'latest proven formula' for killing them, either by stunning ingenuity (a la the game plan V Stormers 2011) or by raw, disciplined improvement in their skill levels of a kind that fixes number of the above weaknesses, then they can start to beat the best teams again. This is unlikely to happen quickly though, these weaknesses may take a humbling period of bad losses against the best teams for the required reawakening to occur.


I didn't realize the Reds were coming last in the comp.
After reading the above it must be so.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
i've just watched the sharks v Lions game and I'm not as negative on our chances of winning as I was. The Sharks were missing their Flyhalf but I didn't see anything that the Reds couldn't handle on the right day and the Tahs looked scarier than them.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
From a punting perspective I reckon the Reds are great value.
Generally speaking I think the Reds are better than they are perceived,and I think the Shorks may be a little overrated.
Should the Reds be the biggest underdogs of the round?
I don't think so.
They just have to be good enough to carry me on their shoulders now.
 

Troy

Jim Clark (26)
If the Reds that played the Brumbies turn up its on! If the Reds that played the TAHS turn up, we're no chance - against any team.

The Shorks haven't been tested yet, the SA conference isn't looking that strong so they'll get easy points v the other teams anyway and will be there come finals time.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
The travel will be the biggest factor (duh) this weekend. The Reds will need to turn up from the get go but if they do I see no reason why we can't beat the Sharks. I won't be shocked if we lose because it will be a big ask but I'll be disappointed because it's one we definitely could win.

We should be looking at minimum 5 pts from this tour but 8 or 9 is not outside our reach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Parse

Bill Watson (15)
Saturday 15 March Sharks v Reds Growthpoint KINGS PARK 17:05

Referee: Lourens van der Merwe
AR1: Jaco van Heerden
AR2: Stefan Breytenbach
TMO: Shaun Veldsman

Geez I love the neutral officials stance SANZAR has for Super Rugby.........
 

Bairdy

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Saturday 15 March Sharks v Reds Growthpoint KINGS PARK 17:05

Referee: Lourens van der Merwe
AR1: Jaco van Heerden
AR2: Stefan Breytenbach
TMO: Shaun Veldsman
tumblr_mg6pehehHo1qii6tmo1_250.gif


Reds fans better hope the game isn't decided upon a TMO referral, a la the Cheetahs match last year!
 

emuarse

Chilla Wilson (44)
Geez I love the neutral officials stance SANZAR has for Super Rugby...


It stinks - the South African AR's never report anything to the Ref where a South African player infringes even when obvious, but if you're from Aussi or NZ then look out.
All I ask is impartiality
 
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