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Semi 2: Stormers vs Tahs

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Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Dickinson's "poor" reputation precedes him. I've been critical of him on the past for being too officious but this year he's been one of the best refs in the Super 14. We've all been calling for refs to whistle by the book, Stuie does this and is called a crap ref! For mine the best two refs this year have been Dickinson and Vinny Munro, with Mark Lawrence third. Steve Walsh is fourth, we all make mistakes in life and Steve's made more than a few but games he whistles are generally good, fair contests.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Lindommer said:
Dickinson's "poor" reputation precedes him. I've been critical of him on the past for being too officious but this year he's been one of the best refs in the Super 14. We've all been calling for refs to whistle by the book, Stuie does this and is called a crap ref! For mine the best two refs this year have been Dickinson and Vinny Munro, with Mark Lawrence third. Steve Walsh is fourth, we all make mistakes in life and Steve's made more than a few but games he whistles are generally good, fair contests.

Dickinson was described on ruggamatrix as being more persistent in his rulings, he is prone to just keep penalising the breakdown and not giving up on it.

His weaknesses is his scrum rulings and the offside line.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Lindommer said:
Dickinson's "poor" reputation precedes him. I've been critical of him on the past for being too officious but this year he's been one of the best refs in the Super 14. We've all been calling for refs to whistle by the book, Stuie does this and is called a crap ref! For mine the best two refs this year have been Dickinson and Vinny Munro, with Mark Lawrence third. Steve Walsh is fourth, we all make mistakes in life and Steve's made more than a few but games he whistles are generally good, fair contests.
Lind I read your post up until the bolded bit. You can count on favouring the hometown team with Walsch and Jonker. Walsch love his looks and love to blow for the crowd, Jonker got nearly bliksemed in Kimberley end up with a dop in his face and since then he'd rather favour the hometown or getting bliksemed.

Munro aint to bad but a bit to young to get semis in the S14.

The secret is to dont get to technical about the refs Boet, offside lines, my word, think the Tahs were much much more off side then Schalks step or two according to you lot. Dont blame the ref Boet, blame Phil Waugh, use to like him but nowadays he turned in a real kakhuis. He dont even know the breakdown rules after a season , so no way he'll know anything about changing game plans when the going gets tough.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Some of Waugh post match comments were pretty poor. He is quoted today as saying the tahs wouldn't of beaten a club team given the way they played. He needs to be more gracious in defeat.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Dunno, part of me likes that he doesn't mince his words and shows how disappointed he is.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
mark_s said:
Some of Waugh post match comments were pretty poor. He is quoted today as saying the tahs wouldn't of beaten a club team given the way they played. He needs to be more gracious in defeat.
Spoiled Brat this Orc of yours. He kept on slowing the game down at rucks and mauls for 80 minutes and have no koeken clue of releasing after tackling. Something he can learn from the Stormers defending. They play this ruling very well all season, arriving in sessions at the rucks , first tackler releasing and the second lot staying on their feet and try to poach legally or counter rucking.

Anyway ja his comments left a kak taste after the match but we use to this.
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
2 contrasting semi-finals I thought. Although this may be because I really cared who won the exciting one.

Bulls Crusaders went almost as I predicted. Except instead of early penalties at the start, it was early tries! However, watching teh Crusaders slice through the backline often, & the bulls overall game, made it a great game to watch. Was simply a step too far for the Crusaders, I do wonder what would have happened had Ellis got the bounce, would have changed the game completely at that point in time.

Stormers vs Tah's just couldn't hold my attention. I didn't have enough of a vested interest in the match though and I just couldn't get interested. Love my explosive play, but both teams defence was just too good.

Only thing the 2 matches had in common was excellent refereeing. Although, for all the talk of neutral ref's, it simply shouldn't have been a safa reffing the semi final. It's too an important game if you ask me & with scrum penalties being the way they are in teh modern game, had the game been decided by one, the froth being spilt would be unbearable.

If Vinny Munro was the best kiwi ref, then he should have had the game. If your good enough, your old enough.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
PaarlBok said:
mark_s said:
Some of Waugh post match comments were pretty poor. He is quoted today as saying the tahs wouldn't of beaten a club team given the way they played. He needs to be more gracious in defeat.
Spoiled Brat this Orc of yours. He kept on slowing the game down at rucks and mauls for 80 minutes and have no koeken clue of releasing after tackling. Something he can learn from the Stormers defending. They play this ruling very well all season, arriving in sessions at the rucks , first tackler releasing and the second lot staying on their feet and try to poach legally or counter rucking.

Anyway ja his comments left a kak taste after the match but we use to this.

You haven't had one good word to say about the Waratahs, Paarl.
 
C

chief

Guest
Fuck oath, Dickinson had one of the best refereeing games I've seen for quite some time. Game was free flowing, rulings were consistent, and persistent, the teams knew what to expect. Even his scrum rulings were correct (unusual). Lawrence wasn't too bad but players were offside. I think finals series should have neutral refs however, just to avoid controversy. I think the two TJ's honestly in the Tahs game were hesitant to make the calls against the defending team.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Scarfman said:
PaarlBok said:
mark_s said:
Some of Waugh post match comments were pretty poor. He is quoted today as saying the tahs wouldn't of beaten a club team given the way they played. He needs to be more gracious in defeat.
Spoiled Brat this Orc of yours. He kept on slowing the game down at rucks and mauls for 80 minutes and have no koeken clue of releasing after tackling. Something he can learn from the Stormers defending. They play this ruling very well all season, arriving in sessions at the rucks , first tackler releasing and the second lot staying on their feet and try to poach legally or counter rucking.

Anyway ja his comments left a kak taste after the match but we use to this.

You haven't had one good word to say about the Waratahs, Paarl.
:lmao: Thomo did the talking on my behalf.

They sure were tough on saturday and had me in a bit of a worried till the try. Then they slowly died under the Stormers defensive effort.

Also thought your 1st phase (scrums and line outs) & counter rucking was good. So to summarise the Tahs tight 5 did their work, cant blame them for the loss.

Well to make the semis of the last merit based S14 , you have to do something right & cant believe the Hickey sackers to be honest.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
naza said:
Phil Waugh. Its not so much the bonehead penalties that bothers me. Its the control freak in him that posseses him to derail the Tahs attack by constantly injecting himself into first receiver. The Tahs can't take the next step with Waugh holding them back.

Agree completely. He stops Burgess from using quick tap ball, takes kicks for touch himself, directs the forwards to play it tight... The sooner he goes the better for Oz rugby. If only he'd retired gracefully instead of G. Smith. But then, Smith has always had it over him so its not surprising he shows more class as well.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Cutter said:
naza said:
Phil Waugh. Its not so much the bonehead penalties that bothers me. Its the control freak in him that posseses him to derail the Tahs attack by constantly injecting himself into first receiver. The Tahs can't take the next step with Waugh holding them back.

Agree completely. He stops Burgess from using quick tap ball, takes kicks for touch himself, directs the forwards to play it tight... The sooner he goes the better for Oz rugby. If only he'd retired gracefully instead of G. Smith. But then, Smith has always had it over him so its not surprising he shows more class as well.
Well, he does hold the Tahs back, not really sure how he holds Aus rugby back. He starts very few Tests and I don't think he captains too many either. ;)
While Smith has had the more glittering career, I doff my cap to the longevity and tough-bastardness of the White Orc. He deserves at least that respect.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Moses said:
Well done Paarl, hope you smash the Brutes in Soweto next week. Are you taking the oxwagon up north?

I've put up a brief match review and some video
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/gutted/
Dankie Boet, sorry only see it now. No I wont trek north, kid have sport on saturday in Worcester and even a S14 final wont stop me from priorities Boet. Love my line walking just to much! ;)

Edit: Hey Moses, thought you are a Reds fan, no need to feel gutted. :lmao:
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Well I've watched the match again, this time with less fury (although the pain is not yet dulled).

Lawrence was very consistent and persistent. Maybe you could point to the Stormers being offside but never penalised as being inconsistent, but overall I agreed with the penalties he gave. I didn't agree with some of the penalties he didn't give, but he was consistent in that too. At the breakdown the Stormers played right on the edge of the laws (as interpreted by Lawrence), so managed to slow the ball (and even slyly steal some) without getting greedy (or unsubtle or stupid) and going for the steal every time (as the Waratahs did). In another game, with another ref, they might have been penalised, but in this Lawrence was very consistent. The problem for the Waratahs is that they didn't adjust. The other problemfor the Waratahs was that often the Stomers contested possession successfully, wholly within the laws, because of their superior tactics, technique, aggression size and strength at the breakdown.

The Waratahs had a chance right up until about the 60th minute (the score still being 13-6), but from then on they didn't really pose the right questions of the Stormers defence. There were plenty of 'what ifs?', as the Waratahs did manage a few very promising line breaks, but they broke down due to poor skills and decision making. One such break - Beale to TPN (running with the ball in two hands, and delivering a great pass) to Carter (carrying the ball in one hand and duely caught and dispossessed) is a case in point.

Phil Waugh had a good game, doing all the work he has done all season. Playing at 1st receiver?! Only when there was nothing else on - he certainly didn't break up any sweeping back line plays as seems to have been suggested. I don't have a problem with him being replaced - BUT ONLY BY SOMEONE WHO WOULD DO A BETTER JOB (do the Waratahs have such a player?). Many of the penalties were against the tackler not releasing rather than Waugh doing something wrong (there were too many of those though).

The size of the Waratahs pack as oppposed to the Stormers pack need not have been a problem. The scrum was solid to dominating (technique being the main deciding factor), and the lineout was also largely fine. The area where there was a problem was the difficulty the Waratahs had in disrupting the Stormers defensive line close to the ruck. If you are fitter and more mobile (but lighter) you can't try to smash through close to the ruck. Some other options include pick and drive, multiple running options at once (so no one runner can be 'lined up', even having options coming inside the crabbing Burgess would work. There is a reason players like Burger or Thorne (for the Crusaders) have had problems with head high tackles - when a faster opponent evades them with a clever pass or running line, they are unable to adjust the position of their hulking frames so throw out an arm. If, on the other hand, you try to go through them you'd want to be big and have a couple of buddies along for the ride. So for me the options are either bulk up or adjust the tactics.

The De jong try was some brilliance on his part and some very poor defending. I was very disappointed with Beale's miss - when someone makes a break like that the defender must close the distance quickly and commit to the tackle...Beale did neither.

The Waratah backs didn't get great ball, and as the game progressed they overplayed their hand out of desperation. which is understandable.

All in all, very disappointing but not utterly disasterous. The Stormers are a very strong team, and they were playing in Cape Town.

Congratulations and good luck (you'll need it) for next week.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
I thought that Palmer was the benefit of some lucky penalties at scrum time. The first scrum penalty went to the Tahs when really it was him collapsing. You saw all the players run up and congratulate him, and him looking bewildered at getting it.

Tilse was significantly better than Palmer in the second half, and you could see the scrum was more stable and there appeared to be less collapses.
 

topo

Cyril Towers (30)
Ash said:
I thought that Palmer was the benefit of some lucky penalties at scrum time. The first scrum penalty went to the Tahs when really it was him collapsing. You saw all the players run up and congratulate him, and him looking bewildered at getting it.

Tilse was significantly better than Palmer in the second half, and you could see the scrum was more stable and there appeared to be less collapses.
Agree Ash, but Palmer's scrummaging shouldn't be judged on these performances. He is really a THP and plays like one, he rarely plays LHP. That's why the scrums were collapsing. 2 THPs against each other means they are both instinctively trying to bore down rather than one of them trying to get under the other and drive up.
 
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