Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

[I like to watch]

....Also IIRC George Smith pointed out that Jum Woodhill (Shore) turned 16 during the tournament, so he man not be all that older than a lad born in Jan 97 and therefore qualified to play Under 15's.

Huh?
If he turned 16 this year he does not qualify to play 15's.
Or are you saying something different?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Age grade you play in is what age you were on Zero hour on 1 Jan of the year in question.

Put it another way, What age are you turning this year? Insert "Under" in front of the answer to that question and that is the age group you are in for that season.

Someone turning 16 in Calendar 2012 will be eligible for Under 16's as per young Woodhill example above.

Someone turning 16 on 2 January is also elegible for Under 16's.
Someone turning 16 on 31 December 2012 will be 1 day too old for Under 15's and could be playing in the same grade as the boy who turned 16 on 1 Jan 2012 and is 364 days older than him.

Let us suggest that one of the U15's playing "up" in the National U16's was born in Jan 1997 and will turn 16 in January 2013.
This lad would be 3 months younger than Woodhill who turned 16 in early October.
Woodhill will be closer in age to the "U15" boy, than someone who turned 16 on January 2012.

 

[I like to watch]

At the NGS (National Gold Squad) introduction meeting on Monday, Manu displayed a list of the selected 2013 participants, is that list available?
He also stated that the 40-odd players listed was the largest intake in the 9 years that NGS has been going. A father of a 15 yr old told me that his son was
one of about 4or5 15 year olds!.

Good luck to the kids involved, but picking winners at 15 is an effing joke.
As a side note,they purport that they are not looking for candidates that shine at Schoolboy level, but for kids that will mature post colts age.
Yet they invariably pick players at a young age that are more physically mature than their peers.Rather than picking more skillful players who are not yet physically mature.
I would have thought that it is easier to turn a good Rugby player into an athlete, than it is to teach an athlete Rugby skills that should be innate in an elite player.

 

[I like to watch]

...
Let us suggest that one of the U15's playing "up" in the National U16's was born in Jan 1997 and will turn 16 in January 2013.
This lad would be 3 months younger than Woodhill who turned 16 in early October.
Woodhill will be closer in age to the "U15" boy, than someone who turned 16 on January 2012.

Ok get your point now, but that's always going to be the case when kids are graded by year.
Interesting statistic I have read is that January kids have 25% more chance of making rep teams, whilst December babies 33% less chance.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Whatever date is chosen for the age group classification, someone will be on the "right" side and someone on the "wrong" side.

I have a Junior Jarse born in December and another in January. Win some, lose some. My January Jarse has always played an age grade up. The December Jarse struggled to keep up with the bigger lads in his age group cohort until after puberty.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Ok get your point now, but that's always going to be the case when kids are graded by year.
Interesting statistic I have read is that January kids have 25% more chance of making rep teams, whilst December babies 33% less chance.

Malcolm Gladwell devoted a chapter or more to the statistical consequences of when date cut off falls and how it impacts on childhood athletes.
In my view the failure to recognise this issue causes many kids who are young for their age group to leave rugby: 364 days of a 10 year old's life is damn near 10% - thats 10% less maturity, including growing time.
I have an untested theory that one of the issues as to why child prodigies in collision sports do not always live up to their potential is that each day the 10% gets slightly less so that when they're 20 its only 5%.

 

[CTPE]

Some good things that I hear were said by Ben Whitaker:

• the boys do not have to commit to rugby solely
• there's a holistic approach and they want to get to know the boys and their parents and family
• the boys have to keep up their school work - they dont expect them to be the dux of their school but they need to keep up the academics
• this is not a team process: the boys may miss selection in teams because those teams are looking for a result in the next week or month or whatever whereas the purpose of the program is to develop for the long term.

Correct - he also said a couple of other things including that being in the JGS does not give participants any preference or guarantee of selection in any representative team. Most importantly he said that ultimately players will be judged on how they perform in games in their respective competitions.

 

[Rugby Mum]

Hey Rugby MumII are you able to define, what is a leading GPS school and what is a non-leading GPS school?

By the way, did you ever hang out at Castle Hill RSL with the real Rugby Mum? (in-joke)

Ok Whatever, I not only hung out at Castle Hill, but worked there too! So do I know you out of Cyber world too?

 

[Rugby Mum]

Whatever date is chosen for the age group classification, someone will be on the "right" side and someone on the "wrong" side.

I have a Junior Jarse born in December and another in January. Win some, lose some. My January Jarse has always played an age grade up. The December Jarse struggled to keep up with the bigger lads in his age group cohort until after puberty.

I have the same HJ... Now if my December son was 16 days late he would be bigger, than most of the kids in the following age group, and would probably have stood out more! My Janurary boy is amongst the older ones in his age group and he too played an age up ( but that was in the dark code) prior to seeing the "light"....lol

 

[Gooner]

I did get that you don't share a son I was just running with your quip
"she might be my wife"
I will try to limit to one thought and a brief "proof" not so many essays
I hope my ranting didn't drive RM2 to removing her posts as the intention is play not to offend, as I did not sire a son at 19 I will not be there either

I like the essays, rants and quips. You have to spend a bit of time to decipher the message but hey are generally thought provoking.

 

[whatever]

Ok Whatever, I not only hung out at Castle Hill, but worked there too! So do I know you out of Cyber world too?

Yeah, you was the top sort behind the bar. Remember the night Richard Clapton "Girls on the Avenue" tore up the Hill. You and me dancing (lets call it that) behind pokie no: 51.

 

[sarcophilus]

I am guessing the discussion is about higher level selections in national gold squads or State.and birthdays

I know there is, under the ARU Rules or regulations a requirement for players to be assessed and significant levels of paper work to be completed before a player plays up more than one age group. under this regimen a year 11 January baby needs to be assessed before he can play in 1stXV as this is nominally an u/18 comp. How onerous is this paper work.

I would also suggest that once players have gone up more than two tiers of representative football (e.g. beyond Sydney Zones or to school association u16 level, I am assuming the four or five U15 NGS players selected are likely to have done both) you are performing at a level that would mean the individual is highly likely to be able to cope with 1st XV or at club open (u17/18) comp the next year. Do these players get an automatic acceptance into the older age group (if no one is in their way) based on demonstrated ability to performance and demonstrated ability to cope at a more intense level, or do they need to go through testing or completing of paper work

what is the ramifications for officials that don't follow protocols

 

[sarcophilus]

I like the essays, rants and quips. You have to spend a bit of time to decipher the message but hey are generally thought provoking.

I know I type in riddles a bit, that's for my own entertainment

a couple of you got it and thought about it
I know that many here are proud parents and identifiable with a little cross referencing and the help of a few of last years rep programs. It may not feel it judicious for them to have a challenging thought while their son(s) is(are) the at or around the squads as Wood Rat said "Stuck with the warm and fuzzies"
Others may have not considered some of the points

I will always endeavour to avoid calling anyone names or insulting anyone directly.
I am not Psycho, I know because the doctors gave me the paper to prove it

 

[Inside Shoulder]

That's the paper they gave you - that's not the paper they sent to the authorities
;-)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[whatever]

That's the paper they gave you - that's not the paper they sent to the authorities
;-)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm sure you work in the field IS; would you have signed the papers? Doubt it.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm sure you work in the field IS; would you have signed the papers? Doubt it.

they refuse to give me a pen with ink in it

 

[Quick Hands]

I am guessing the discussion is about higher level selections in national gold squads or State.and birthdays

I know there is, under the ARU Rules or regulations a requirement for players to be assessed and significant levels of paper work to be completed before a player plays up more than one age group. under this regimen a year 11 January baby needs to be assessed before he can play in 1stXV as this is nominally an u/18 comp. How onerous is this paper work.

I would also suggest that once players have gone up more than two tiers of representative football (e.g. beyond Sydney Zones or to school association u16 level, I am assuming the four or five U15 NGS players selected are likely to have done both) you are performing at a level that would mean the individual is highly likely to be able to cope with 1st XV or at club open (u17/18) comp the next year. Do these players get an automatic acceptance into the older age group (if no one is in their way) based on demonstrated ability to performance and demonstrated ability to cope at a more intense level, or do they need to go through testing or completing of paper work

what is the ramifications for officials that don't follow protocols

The paperwork isn't much at all from the ones that I've seen. It's a single sheet filled out by the club/school and parents. The boy then needs to be assessed by a Level 2 coach in tackling, contact, physical attributes etc and the Level 2 coach has to sign off on the form. The club/school then forwards the form to the competition organiser. Not sure of the penalty for non-compiance, I assume at the very least loss of insurance cover in the event of injury. The boy's date of birth would also appear when the team tried to register him for the competition, so I assume that the Union concerned would prevent the boy from playing and perhaps sanction the club if there was an attempt to beat the system.

 

[Gooner]

As we are just about to get in the car to head the junior gold program at Scott's the French are winning 10 - 3 with 20 minutes gone.

It is probably time to break down the private school barriers to entry. There is more junior talent in Minto than Mosman - it just needs to be developed.

We have just kicked a penalty. down 10-6.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As we are just about to get in the car to head the junior gold program at Scott's the French are winning 10 - 3 with 20 minutes gone.

It is probably time to break down the private school barriers to entry. There is more junior talent in Minto than Mosman - it just needs to be developed.

We have just kicked a penalty. down 10-6.

Geez - glad i moved from Mosman

 

[sarcophilus]

some of the late comment in "storming the ramparts" seem to reflect what I was saying here, I didn't threaten any one with a sgian dubh though
thanks for the info Quick Hands

s for the Wallabies the trend away from proper scrum?

are our juniors coaches and selectors going to continue to select for just ball runners and ignore the need for a tight 5 ... or three at least that can manage a set piece, (scrum, lift throw)
I have seen the uncontested rule used to stifle play/ and coaches encourage passive scrums to draw a penalty
School boy rugby is exciting for its lack of fear and tendency to run from anywhere, I appreciate that but skills at set pieces must be developed, don't just pick big blokes that stand out for two or three hit ups in a game and expect their size to make up for intelligence and skill at the scrum and line out.