Scrum - Wallabies Vs Wales

[Langthorne]

The glass is half full!

McCalman and Genia are fast becoming the premier exponents of extracting the ball from an uncontrolled reversing scrum.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

That was just painful to watch. And despite Gagger putting some positive spin on with "improvement in the second half", I'm buggered if I could see it, although by then I was burying my nose in a glass whenever a scrum was called.

I know the Ben(n)s are short of game time, but there must be more to it, like the rest of the pack not binding properly. WTF is Noriega doing with these guys?

At this rate, the poms will shove our heads up our arses worse than the last time.

 

[dobduff11]

I think someone did a blog analysis on the scrums a while back, the big thing i noticed is that the front rows and second rows are not tight to each her. This means that alot of the shoveing power wasn't doing anything because they weren't tight enough.

Today's problem aswell was that the back row kept popping up and not pushing any teams front 5 would lose against another teams 8.

 

[Joe Blow]

It's something that needs constant work.
The Wallabies only seem to focus on improving that part of their game after a year or so of constant humiliation.

If my calculations are correct we should be peaking around about RWC 2011 time.......carry on.

 

[disco]

Yeah why is this happening all over again I'm sick of it. In 2009 we had the best scrum going around & our backs were shit & now it's reversed again.

Is it Fainga'a? I know last week Robinson got smashed but last night it seemed like Fainga'a & Alexander got worked over.

Will Moore be back next week?

 

[Langthorne]

Fainga'a is young and light, so that doesn't help. The Ben/ns are a bit under done. The scrum as a unit was a bit complacent.

As a general point, we still don't have a deep or sophisticated scrummaging culture, so when our top guys are injured or out of form, or a strong and experienced scrum is up against us, we don't have the immediate answers.

As an aside, pushover tries are very rare these days as teams are far too prepared to collapse the scrum. This is a very bad thing and I woud like to see a crackdown as it is a very dangerous practice.

 

[Ruggo]

I think the refs are onto Ben Robinsons technique. They have cottoned on to the hand on the ground. The disruption of losing Moore and the early breaking of the loosies didn't help either.

Credit must go to the Welsh scrum also as the were bloody good.

 

[waratahjesus]

the problems last night were threefold.
* first of all, welsh 6, i dont know his name but dont really care, but he was binding illegally high or slipping up during contact and forcing benn to push against two, thios was causing robbo to slip in and not have a direct hit which was twisting our front row. its illegal and takes away our best scrummer right away which leaves only alexander and the waste of space dude pushing but they have benn pushing into them.

* the second row wernt binding with each other, whenever our scrum fell apart the second row split, there bind should be with each other first and then with the props but they just seem so god damn loose that anything there doing would be a waste of time.

* our back row seem intent on braking in microseconds when the ball is out. Pocock needed to slide up and help benn (illegal but they were doing so and it would have straightened the hit) but he is to worried about backing up quades inability to handle contact with the ball or the defensive channel without it that he is just touching the scrum and ready to run. Rocky and Mac just as bad, they should have there heads f'n down and there bums in the air pushing like there giving birth or at least til they get piles but they just want to play the next phase.

in conclusion, knock three holes in a concrete fence, get the props to stick there heads through and have the whole 8 push for the next week.

 

[#1 Tah]

Palu used to push all 7 players.

 

[dobduff11]

WJesus - the 6 is called Dan Lydiate and i noticed that during the match but didn't comment about it

Pocock was breaking off so quickly as you said to care for quade man that guy needs to learn how to tackle

 

[Scarfman]

Knowing that Giteau was about to run sideways to the opposite side of the field caused the loosies to unbind too quickly, which caused the scrum to suck.

Drop Giteau, he's past it.

 

[waratahjesus]

we need to just become gregan like dobbers and tell the ref there having a four man front row, ref will stand on the other side and we will be able to get away with murder.

 

[dobduff11]

Gregan was such a lad

 

[fatprop]

Scrums ..............

We were passive/afraid at the hit to attack
We didn't work together at all
We had mercats in the backrow

I am just thankful these dumb sides haven't worked out how to leverage their dominance at scrum time. What does walking forward waiting for a penalty actually do? Great if they kick a goal but sometimes they get some excited with their dominance that they forget to do anything with the ball.

I am a firm believer that Wales got it right in first scrum where they put on a quarter turn and drove and then spun the ball. That puts the Aus backrow 2-3m behind the welsh backrow. But they didn't do it again :nta:

They kicked a couple of goals but it didn't really do anything to change the game.

I don't understand why they didn't use the blind, spin the ball or at least do something with the dominance

 

[topo]

Can't blame the ref, can't blame the cheating opposition. That was just a terrible performance at scrum time for lots of reasons, most of which have been cited by fp. Foley is the best scrum coach in Australia and daylight is second. Noriego is big on passion and short on technical nous. I suspect this may have something to do with the decline.
One bright light seems to be Slipper who consistently improves the scrum whenever and wherever he comes on. I'd like to see him start and see just how good he is.

 

[Reddy!]

Bring back coach Foley.

This game reminded me of the Connelly era where we thought our scrum was on the mend and performing pretty well, only to be publicly humiliated by England in the Quarter Finals, 2007.

 

[qwerty51]

Giteau's fault for sure

 

[Done that]

Of course technique is very important , but Wales were definitely bigger & stronger .Saying that the Wallabies weren't binding etc. etc. is ignoring that very basic point.The number of times the ball was ripped from
the Wallabies possession , even in the backs , highlighted that fact to me. At international level , these days , Australia is not a big side, & this will play a part in a number of their games.

 

[RedsHappy]

Can't blame the ref, can't blame the cheating opposition. That was just a terrible performance at scrum time for lots of reasons, most of which have been cited by fp. Foley is the best scrum coach in Australia and daylight is second. Noriego is big on passion and short on technical nous. I suspect this may have something to do with the decline. One bright light seems to be Slipper who consistently improves the scrum whenever and wherever he comes on. I'd like to see him start and see just how good he is.

Thanks Topo. Time line for assessment: Marseilles October 2007....Cardiff November 2010. Major scrum improvements during 2008: yes. 2009 just OK in scrum/forwards land, but no further core improvement that were sustained by any of forwards depth, technique or better w-l results clearly driven by forwards or scrums excellence. 2010 - Pocock aside, have our forwards and scrum quality+consistency really advanced as they should in our national team with substantial funding and technical resources?

This uneven, poor trend over 3 critical years cannot just be put down to the ever-convenient 'we lack depth and cattle in Oz'. We have cockily brushed Baxter and Weeks, and not even toured (for example) Douglas this year. It seems we are happy with Chisholm and Brown (now bench), but consider Simmons and Humphries and Higginbotham and Hodgson extraordinary risks suitable for mid-week games only.

As Topo says, surely, with the above track-record over 3 years, where a 5/10 achievement score would be generous, it is time to evaluate the adequacy of our forwards and scrum coaches? There can be no question that Foley contributed hugely in 2008, then, by all recent accounts, resigned back to NSW as he perceived Deans would not take the right counsel re selections and tactics. Whatever, have Williams (and Robbie in this area) actually delivered in this crucial area of the team's development? The facts would tend to indicate not, and that urgent specialist coaching change is needed in the forwards and, potentially, scrum specialist as well.

PS: Many posters attest that all will be well in forwards land once our 'top talent' is fully back from injury. But does the return of Robinson, Alexander and Moore confirm that theory?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Nothing wrong with Moore's scrummaging, but I am worried about the two Ben(n)s. All the progress the scrum has made in the last couple of seasons appears to be unravelling at the moment. I'm shitting myself about facing England next week.