Scrum Talk

[Quick Hands]

TMO should be watching the overhead vision at Twickers and The Arms Park, and other venues fitted with Spider cams, with the same powers as an AR to call in illegal front row (and second row) activities.

It is all well and good to have referees call the Crouch, Bind, Set sequence to improve front row safety at the point of engagement, but how is it safe for the Gold THP to have the White 5, 2, 1 and 7 all driving in on him from multiple angles? The White #2 appears to be the only White fat boy who is scrummaging in accordance with the Laws of the Game.

Not only illegal technique from the White team, but a rather unsafe practice.

The Gold Captain should be in the Referee's ear about the unsafe workplace practices that he is condoning.

It is easy to be appear to have a "dominant" scrum when you are cheating.

If you can't beat them, then AUS need to join them.

How soon before a prop is seriously injured from these illegal and unsafe practices? Who would be liable?

We'd get hammered for doing anything like that. Refs, commentators etc. already have a preconceived notion of the Australian scrum.

 

[Quick Hands]

All of this actually makes me laugh when the have the NH scrum apologists constantly referring to the scrum as a contest for possession, when it has become nothing of the sort. On at least 4 occasions last week the England team had clearly won the scrum, but decided to hold it in - not to achieve a pushover try, or create an attacking opportunity, but to obtain a penalty. Something is wrong with this scenario.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

In this case the centreline of the scrum seems to be rather conveniently located very close to a field marking.

Watching the replay, it would be rather obvious to all and sundry if the yappy runt #9 fed the scrum on the centre line. Same for Sir and his AR's adjudicating the game live.
Might have to rewatch the game for this particular scrum. Pretty sure it is the scrum that occurred at 01:50am AEDT. There are comments about it on the game thread at that time (page 39 and 40).

"Feed the ball correctly England. For fucks sake" Post #782
"Pommie flanker packs down into AUS second row." Post #779
"Hooper not even trying to scrum really helping out his prop..." Post #780

#JusticeForWallabyScrum
#StopScrumCheating

 

[Quick Hands]

If this is the scrum which was packed near the pommy goal line, as the field markings indicate, I remember the feed vividly. 45 degrees in their own side, which means that you can focus all your energy on infringing in the front row, as you don't have to actually win the ball.

IMO, it's time the refs and the IRB got fair dinkum about these scrums. Matches are being decided on scrum penalties and yet there are some infringements which are ignored completely. By ignoring incorrect feeds the refs are allowing teams to concentrate on the type of illegal activities employed by England on Saturday. On a similar line of thought - how many scrums in the game moved sideways across the field? (i.e. parallel to the goal lines) Quite a few IIRC - very hard for the non-dominant scrum to do this.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You're probably right about the location of the pictured scrum. The match thread comments preceding post #779 relate to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) being tackled a metre or two out from the Soap Dodgers try line.

I reckon it was most likely at the 14 minute mark with ENG leading by 6-3 at the time. Ford had kicked the penalty against McCalman for obstructing Brown's kick chase about two minutes before this particular scrum.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Hopefully this works - the overhead view of that scum

Link if the embedment doesn't work

 

[Quick Hands]

Hopefully this works - the overhead view of that scum

Link if the embedment doesn't work

Thanks for that. It's as I recalled. 45 degree scrum feed, almost immediately the English loose head sticks his backside and and bores straight into the hooker.

EDIT: The IRB and SANZAR refs should be using the camera angles as an education tool for their referees. If I was Cheika, I'd be booking an appointment with whoever is currently running the IRB refs. The footage of that scrum is damning as to how the laws are enforced.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Had to use the link @Strewthcobber. Good find though.

The White team clearly had no intention of complying with the Laws of the game, when they set up and executed that scrum.

That performance is probably worse than any we have seen from The Darkness at ruck time.

Right in front of Sir as well.

 

[Quick Hands]

Had to use the link @Strewthcobber. Good find though.

The White team clearly had no intention of complying with the Laws of the game, when they set up and executed that scrum.

That performance is probably worse than any we have seen from The Darkness at ruck time.

Right in front of Sir as well.

But sir has in his mind that England are the dominant scrum, and referees the scrum through that prism.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Hopefully cheika sends the link through to whoever is in charge of the refs these days and follows up with a phone call every week until next September.

There's a thread below on how to coach a scrum. Reckon we need to do some referee coaching as well if we're going to have any chance

 

[tragic]

As angry as that clip makes me feel I can't imagine how pissed Kepu and Slipper must feel atm being lambasted internationally in the rugby media by journos who don't know shit from clay about scrummaging.
Don't know how you train for that rubbish.
Hope Kepu snaps him in half come RWC.

 

[Quick Hands]

As angry as that clip makes me feel I can't imagine how pissed Kepu and Slipper must feel atm being lambasted internationally in the rugby media by journos who don't know shit from clay about scrummaging.
Don't know how you train for that rubbish.
Hope Kepu snaps him in half come RWC.

The journos just parrot the same line -"the Aussies can't scrum" and it becomes the accepted wisdom.

This is not to say that our scrummaging can't improve, but what happened on Saturday wasn't right.

 

[brokendown]

And what did they do to counter those tactics?

 

[Highlander35]

Get the near side touchie to manage the opposite side of the scrum, that would "hopefully" start to help.

 

[Chris McCracken]

In honesty, you can argue for or against the illegal tactics here. And I don't argue them anyway, because I believe we should start using them back.

However, there are two infringements which the referee really has no excuse for missing. The first is the fact that white 1 binds at an angle prior to the scrum. After the scrum starts, there are always arguments as to who turns in first and why, but starting at that angle is almost unmissable. Of course, a loose head is frequently going to be 5-10 degrees in, but that is ridiculous.

The other point is the scrum feed which has been made above. If the officials aren't able to catch these two relatively static issues, then I'm not sure what hope there is for relying on refs to police the scrum.

Hence, I'm a firm believer that if you can't beat them, you should join them. Hooper does give that a go, but it doesn't seem like he's practiced that particular skill too much and gets driven off by Robshaw.

And, while we're picking at the English scrum, the angle the tight head takes about 6 seconds into the scrum is nasty.

 

[Baldric]

And what did they do to counter those tactics?

Firstly in law that was poorly refereed. They have bought the new engagement sequence to sort out the scrum and also the feed to make it a contest again. The ref did not manage that at all - shambles. Penalty/free kick Aus.

Secondly on the scrumming side, if you are a tight head and you are under the pump you will be turned like that and your arse handed to you on a platter. You need to engage with the oppo loosie to prevent him from doing that. It becomes a problem when the opposite hooker does not need to strike because the half has fed the balls under the no 8's feet and he is able to have two feet on the ground so he and the loose head can work together to push you into the cheap seats.

 

[Baldric]

And looking again, gold 5 may as well have stood at fullback for all the good he was doing. No way will a THP be able to maintain form with nothing coming from behind. 7 not helping the cause either. It was a contest between 8 and 6 people.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

5's head is above the THPs bum a split second after they pack.
I'd be interested to hear from those more knowledgeable what the counter to an LHP angling (used to be called boring) in is? I know what the old fashioned solution was: and so does Graham Price.

 

[Baldric]

5's head is above the THPs bum a split second after they pack.
I'd be interested to hear from those more knowledgeable what the counter to an LHP angling (used to be called boring) in is? I know what the old fashioned solution was: and so does Graham Price.

I was thinking of suggesting that, but thought better of it. It is beneath a prop to whinge to a ref. I was reffing a game when the prop said his opposite number was boring. I replied that he was not that interesting himself. I though it enormously funny at the time.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I was reffing a game when the prop said his opposite number was boring. I replied that he was not that interesting himself. I though it enormously funny at the time.

I agree with you: its funny.
I've thought of it more than once: you need an all in so that the ref can't/wont send anyone.
Trouble is, i have a sneaking suspicion we'd lose the fight too.