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Scrap Super Rugby for a Trans Tasman Competition?

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Ali's Choice

Jimmy Flynn (14)
NZ sports journalist Wynne Gray makes some suggestions for improving Super Rugby in today's NZ Herald, including dumping South AfFrican teams, and creating a Trans Tasman competition.

Start it a month later in March and slash it to a transtasman contest just like the netball competition so we get all the games in a similar time-zone.

We're told South Africa brings a strong commercial component to the series but they also bring a so-what content with games screening in the middle of the night.
A transtasman competition would cut the travel, ramp up the sporting rivalry, provide more attractions for audiences and allow a test programme with greater intrigue if that involved the Springboks.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10725555

I actually think that a Trans Tasman competition would work well. Last year, when the SANZAR nations were negotiating the terms of the new Super Rugby competition, and SARU CEO Andy Marinos was threatening to pull South Africa out of Super Rugby, I gave a proposed Trans Tasman comp some thought. A Trans Tasman Super 10, featuring the current NZ and Australian S15 franchises could adopt a home and away regular season over 18 weeks, and would have the added appeal that all games would be played in friendly timezones for NZ and Australian viewers. No 3am or 5am starts for NZ and Aussie rugby fans. Obviously the one massive negative for such a proposal would be the loss of the TV revenue brought to the table by South African viewers.
 
B

Burke's Boot

Guest
Ali, i bet having no Japie teams would affect the bottom line we get from News Ltd big time and i don't mind watching Saffa teams these days as they have improved their style which used to be such a wonderful advertisement for Rugby League.

btw, this is a good natured board, unlike Planet Rugby, so keep behaving yourself or you will be dealt with Waratah style.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I hope not. I really enjoy South African games, don't mind the times either as I'll usually stay up or just get home. There's always IQ too.

We'd get smashed in a Trans-Tasman competition.
 

Ali's Choice

Jimmy Flynn (14)
I hope not. I really enjoy South African games, don't mind the times either as I'll usually stay up or just get home. There's always IQ too.

We'd get smashed in a Trans-Tasman competition.

I rarely stay up for South african games, but I generally IQ games featuring NZ teams and then watch them Sunday morning. In saying that, I personally would really like a Trans Tasman competition. And I've often thought whether such a competition could be a way of saving NZ's provincial rugby scene? A trans-tasman 3rd tier comp featuring NZ's seven 1st division provinces competing with seven Australian clubs. Ideally you could have the two best Sydney and Brisbane clubs and one club based in Perth, Canberra and Melbourne. In this way the competition would be a way for Australian and NZ rugby to compete at a level below Super Rugby, take advantage of new revenue streams, provide a viable and sustainable 3rd tier model for both countries.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Mate, I'm already sick of Saffa and Kiwi teams. I'm really looking forward to Argentina coming into the comp. Then we'll really have something. Definitely don't want to contract the competition in SupeRugby.
 

Rebel rouser

Ted Fahey (11)
Never tell any saffer I ever said this, but losing them from our comp would have a major impact on the quality of the competition both at provincial and international level.

The saffers traditionally play a different brand of rugby to Aus and NZ, one that is far more like the north - forward orientated to try and muscle you out of the game. Regular exposure to this is important. Aus and NZ teams by nature love running rugby but can occasionally forget to do the hard stuff. In addition, genuine international touring is important. Let's be honest, Sydney to NZ is closer than Sydney to WA. The trip to SA is the real tour, and the need to do this trip regularly also sharpens our playing edge and means trips to the NH seem like childsplay after playing at Newlands and Loftus.
 

Ali's Choice

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Mate, I'm already sick of Saffa and Kiwi teams. I'm really looking forward to Argentina coming into the comp. Then we'll really have something. Definitely don't want to contract the competition in SupeRugby.

How about adopting a trans tasman comp for 3rd tier rugby? The seven NZ first division provinces playing alongside a selection of Australian club teams?
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
How about adopting a trans tasman comp for 3rd tier rugby? The seven NZ first division provinces playing alongside a selection of Australian club teams?

Chuck in a Argentian team, too. Base them in a NZ or Australian city, the same as the Pampas XV in the Currie Cup. The Pampas have been a pretty big success.
 

Ali's Choice

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Slightly off topic,

I know that the Pumas are confirmed for the 4N, but I havn't read any plans to extend Super Rugby by adding an Argentine based team. The travel week in week out would be horrendous.
 
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Rebel rouser

Ted Fahey (11)
Slightly off topic,

I know that the Pumas are confirmed for the 4N, but I havn't read any plans to extend Super Rugby by adding an Argentine based team. The travel week in week out would be horrendous.

I think a tentative blueprint for this expansion was built in to the current conference system. Essentially, if all was going well, they would consider adding an extra team to each conference in 2013 - the Spears to the SA conference, and Argentine team in the Aus conference, and consider stepping up one of the NZ teams out of the APC.

However, it was also thought that if they were to do this, they would try to not increase the total length of the tournament. This would mean playing your own conference home and away (10 games) then only THREE of Five teams from each other conference. Personally, I dislike this dilution of the international games. But it may well come to pass.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
How about adopting a trans tasman comp for 3rd tier rugby? The seven NZ first division provinces playing alongside a selection of Australian club teams?


I'd like to see this but not with our current clubs competing. Regardless of what some may have convinced themselves of our clubs would not be competitive in the least. If it did occur, I'd like to see Sydney split into three provinces. They'd be Sydney (East), North and West involving the four clubs from each area. Brisbane split in two, North and South and the ACT,VIC and WA entering a team each.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Regarding adding an Argentine based Super Rugby team.They would have to look to add a South American or Americas conference to somewhat reduce the need to travel to a degree. It would still involve quite a bit of travel but that may just need to be the case.
 

Ali's Choice

Jimmy Flynn (14)
I'd like to see this but not with our current clubs competing. Regardless of what some may have convinced themselves of our clubs would not be competitive in the least. If it did occur, I'd like to see Sydney split into three provinces. They'd be Sydney (East), North and West involving the four clubs from each area. Brisbane split in two, North and South and the ACT,VIC and WA entering a team each.

That would remove the historical allegiances supporters would have to the Australian teams, and would be a bad thing. I think the top Sydney Clubs would be competitive with the NZ provinces, especially given that the non-Wallaby S15 players would be available.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Watched Norths vs Randwick this afternoon. Supporters is a very subjective term. If I wanted to spin it as a positive way I could say, ' a few hundred (if that) supporters bothered to watch the game at North Sydney Oval'. Conversly, I could say ' next to no one showed to watch a rather decent game of club Rugby'. Personally, I find the whole club allegiance thing tends to be more of grand ideal not often witnessed in reality.

I actually think establishing provinces with NSWRU would work a lot better than the current Club system when it comes to drawing attendances and marketing. It wouldn't necessarily need to remove the clubs from the equation. When I say Sydney, I mean a representative team from the Eastern/Southern and Inner West sourcing players from the four grade clubs in the area. Sought of a cooperative ownership model where Easts, Randwick, Souths and Uni would supply the talent a share costs/revenues. Same for in the North (Norths, Gordon, Manly and Warringah) and Wests ( West Harbour, Parra, Penrith and Eatwood). This would happen in each area.
 

Ali's Choice

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Watched Norths vs Randwick this afternoon. Supporters is a very subjective term. If I wanted to spin it as a positive way I could say, ' a few hundred (if that) supporters bothered to watch the game at North Sydney Oval'. Conversly, I could say ' next to no one showed to watch a rather decent game of club Rugby'. Personally, I find the whole club allegiance thing tends to be more of grand ideal not often witnessed in reality.

I actually think establishing provinces with NSWRU would work a lot better than the current Club system when it comes to drawing attendances and marketing. It wouldn't necessarily need to remove the clubs from the equation. When I say Sydney, I mean a representative team from the Eastern/Southern and Inner West sourcing players from the four grade clubs in the area. Sought of a cooperative ownership model where Easts, Randwick, Souths and Uni would supply the talent a share costs/revenues. Same for in the North (Norths, Gordon, Manly and Warringah) and Wests ( West Harbour, Parra, Penrith and Eatwood). This would happen in each area.

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with you, I think the Sydney clubs showed during the ARC debacle that they will not tolerate being relegated into 4th tier entities. The ARU would be silly to take the SYdney clubs on again so soon.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
That's why to placate them you involve them in the respective 'provinces'. That way we finally get a competition whether it be Trans-Tasman or not at a higher quality which is desperately needed and they maintain a key developmental role in Aus Rugby. They become an involved stakeholder instead of being sidelined like they were under the ARC format.
 

Ali's Choice

Jimmy Flynn (14)
That's why to placate them you involve them in the respective 'provinces'. That way we finally get a competition whether it be Trans-Tasman or not at a higher quality which is desperately needed and they maintain a key developmental role in Aus Rugby. They become an involved stakeholder instead of being sidelined like they were under the ARC format.

I can't see the big Sydney clubs like Sydney Uni buying into that for a second. They will steadfastly refuse to buy into a system which sees them relegated into 4th tier entities.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Yeah, well that's why it will never happen and we will still be pondering just how to reconcile our apparent depth issues 10 years from now. From experience from within Sydney Club Rugby in particular, there are many who claim to have the games best interests at heart but through their actions and steadfast refusal to relinquish there patch of territory and influence hold the game back. Not saying they don't love the game but I am saying they value there over inflated feelings of self importance more.
 
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