Scotland v Australia - Sunday 26 November 1:30am AEDT
- Thread starter Braveheart81
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Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Jees mate ease up on the hyperbole.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I will break my post into a two part job for this game and the tour as a whole.
As I posted before the game some time earlier this week, I expected the Scot forwards would dominate as the second row is far superior to the Wallabies, and I'd suggest that even the addition of a single Coleman figure would not change the fact that whoever has partnered him has been for most of the year, who ever it has been, largely a passenger. That is not to say the loss of him in the second row was not brutally exposed. I also thought the backrow as for most of this year is grossly underwhelming in actual power in contact, as opposed to work rate which doesn't actually measure anything about effectiveness. McMahon has some brilliant moments of ball in hand contact work but some fairly ineffectual moments as well, the same in defence. That said he is the only one that has actual in tight power in contact, Hanigan up to this point showed zero, plenty of workrate, lots, huge workrate, no effect, McCalman, slightly better, but as in every other test he has played against top opposition pretty much the same as Hanigan. Hooper massive workrate, tops the tackle count, metres run and most penalties and yellow cards. Am I surprised that they were totally outplayed by Scotland, who have as I said a very good pack, no, it was predictable when selecting such an unbalanced side with no real go forward. and one of the best tight ball runners in the side sitting on the bench in TPN. The pack also totally lacked any ability to combat the mauling of the Scots who I think successively drove for about 50M in this game (total).
Now even before the obvious excuse of the Red card to Kepu the Wallabies were struggling with the other point I mentioned through the week, the defensive structure. It doesn't matter who is selected in the side or where players are positioned, the line itself, the structure is so poor that all that is needed to generate an overlap is to go wide one way then swing back quickly cutting the midfield entirely and the Scots had innumerable overlaps, easily generated without even needing significant forward momentum at the first phase. They certainly didn't need multiple phases to catch the structure out. Some poor handling which the Scots didn't display against the ABs saved the Wallabies from a worse scoreline.
Kepu was slightly unlikely in his contact with the Scotish 7 in that the Scot was on his way down when Kepu came in, but slightly unlucky is as generous as I can be, it was reckless and even on first real time viewing I called it a red.
The Wallabies as they were against England will say they were in this and point to three tries and near parity on the scoreboard to near the end, they can kid themselves. They were never really in the game, they were outclassed totally, and the biggest part still comes back to my second point about defensive structure. From the Tahs to the Wallabies Grey's defensive work(structure and actual team execution of the plan) has been terrible since 2016. That's two sides with terrible outcomes. There is nowhere to hide from that.
As I posted before the game some time earlier this week, I expected the Scot forwards would dominate as the second row is far superior to the Wallabies, and I'd suggest that even the addition of a single Coleman figure would not change the fact that whoever has partnered him has been for most of the year, who ever it has been, largely a passenger. That is not to say the loss of him in the second row was not brutally exposed. I also thought the backrow as for most of this year is grossly underwhelming in actual power in contact, as opposed to work rate which doesn't actually measure anything about effectiveness. McMahon has some brilliant moments of ball in hand contact work but some fairly ineffectual moments as well, the same in defence. That said he is the only one that has actual in tight power in contact, Hanigan up to this point showed zero, plenty of workrate, lots, huge workrate, no effect, McCalman, slightly better, but as in every other test he has played against top opposition pretty much the same as Hanigan. Hooper massive workrate, tops the tackle count, metres run and most penalties and yellow cards. Am I surprised that they were totally outplayed by Scotland, who have as I said a very good pack, no, it was predictable when selecting such an unbalanced side with no real go forward. and one of the best tight ball runners in the side sitting on the bench in TPN. The pack also totally lacked any ability to combat the mauling of the Scots who I think successively drove for about 50M in this game (total).
Now even before the obvious excuse of the Red card to Kepu the Wallabies were struggling with the other point I mentioned through the week, the defensive structure. It doesn't matter who is selected in the side or where players are positioned, the line itself, the structure is so poor that all that is needed to generate an overlap is to go wide one way then swing back quickly cutting the midfield entirely and the Scots had innumerable overlaps, easily generated without even needing significant forward momentum at the first phase. They certainly didn't need multiple phases to catch the structure out. Some poor handling which the Scots didn't display against the ABs saved the Wallabies from a worse scoreline.
Kepu was slightly unlikely in his contact with the Scotish 7 in that the Scot was on his way down when Kepu came in, but slightly unlucky is as generous as I can be, it was reckless and even on first real time viewing I called it a red.
The Wallabies as they were against England will say they were in this and point to three tries and near parity on the scoreboard to near the end, they can kid themselves. They were never really in the game, they were outclassed totally, and the biggest part still comes back to my second point about defensive structure. From the Tahs to the Wallabies Grey's defensive work(structure and actual team execution of the plan) has been terrible since 2016. That's two sides with terrible outcomes. There is nowhere to hide from that.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Not true D. I have been singularly unimpressed with Hunt on each of his involvements on tour, especially again with missed tackles in this game. ATM he is the most over-rated player in the Wallabies' group, and there are quite a few who don't play as well as they are largely rated in these threads. Again, I'll say that if Hodge is to be retained for his boot, then play him at 15. He would at least get an opportunity there to use his boot which the current game plan just doesn't accommodate. Most certainly, he is not a winger. Given the present squad, I'd go with Foley at 10, Beale at 12, Kuridrani at 13, Koriobete and Speight on the wings and Hodge at 15. Rona on the bench. Hunt has not yet earned a spot in the 23.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Second part :-
Statistic used in isolation to prove individual points and in individual circumstances/examples yield suspect and greatly questionable results. Over time however the errors that give rise to the poor results are removed and a trend builds.
The Wallabies have conceded record points against nearly every Tier 1 side they have played in the last two years and also against a couple of Tier 2 nations as well.
The Wallabies have been penalised far more than their opposition in many games and where penalties have on aggregate been of similar number they have been conceded in a manner which leads to people being yellow carded. Now I argue that the poor defensive structure (see above) creates a situation where defending players are always scrambling even 50 metres out to cover breaks so that they are consistently getting done for being offside. In this way it is my considered argument that the penalty count and its manner of acquisition is a structural artefact and not due to individual idiocy. I will put in one rider there, Beale, seriously you have to question the base intelligence of a player with over 60? caps who bats the ball out, (and please don't kid yourself and try to assert he was trying to scoop it up) the week after he is yellow carded for the intentional knock on he argued he tried to intercept with his hand above the ball so that the only motion it could take was down and forward. Sorry Beale the referees are not as intellectually challenged as you wish to believe.
I was a supporter of Chieka, and he was the only candidate for the job after the Coupe that saw Mackenzie resign. He remains the only clear candidate for the job in this country unfortunately. That said the results and his petulant childishness cannot be excused and I will say unreservedly that he is a worse coach than Robbie Deans, who we still cannot decipher much of what he talked about or the game plans. The facts are terrible things but the results and the stats over time speak volumes. Defence is a key, and the fact is Cheika appointed Grey, despite performances at the Tahs for three years. Does anybody question Cheika in the "group" at all do they all act like the game day coaches box noddy dog?
None of this matters because as Sean McMahon said, nobody in the "group" cares what anybody outside the "group" thinks or says, they know how good they are. Sean and the "group" can feel comforted by the fact that very few people in Australia care enough any longer to even think about the "group". Indeed even at board and executive level most are ex-players and Wallabies, getting a pay check as well so they certainly won't worry too much about outside opinion.
Finally one last point to consider in ending my rant. Has Michael Cheika produced any results at any side past a single complete season? Tahs - No. Wallabies No. Munster?
Stade - sacked (not that I put too much on that because the French, you know). Motivational speakers can only take you so far before the lack of substance shows up.
Statistic used in isolation to prove individual points and in individual circumstances/examples yield suspect and greatly questionable results. Over time however the errors that give rise to the poor results are removed and a trend builds.
The Wallabies have conceded record points against nearly every Tier 1 side they have played in the last two years and also against a couple of Tier 2 nations as well.
The Wallabies have been penalised far more than their opposition in many games and where penalties have on aggregate been of similar number they have been conceded in a manner which leads to people being yellow carded. Now I argue that the poor defensive structure (see above) creates a situation where defending players are always scrambling even 50 metres out to cover breaks so that they are consistently getting done for being offside. In this way it is my considered argument that the penalty count and its manner of acquisition is a structural artefact and not due to individual idiocy. I will put in one rider there, Beale, seriously you have to question the base intelligence of a player with over 60? caps who bats the ball out, (and please don't kid yourself and try to assert he was trying to scoop it up) the week after he is yellow carded for the intentional knock on he argued he tried to intercept with his hand above the ball so that the only motion it could take was down and forward. Sorry Beale the referees are not as intellectually challenged as you wish to believe.
I was a supporter of Chieka, and he was the only candidate for the job after the Coupe that saw Mackenzie resign. He remains the only clear candidate for the job in this country unfortunately. That said the results and his petulant childishness cannot be excused and I will say unreservedly that he is a worse coach than Robbie Deans, who we still cannot decipher much of what he talked about or the game plans. The facts are terrible things but the results and the stats over time speak volumes. Defence is a key, and the fact is Cheika appointed Grey, despite performances at the Tahs for three years. Does anybody question Cheika in the "group" at all do they all act like the game day coaches box noddy dog?
None of this matters because as Sean McMahon said, nobody in the "group" cares what anybody outside the "group" thinks or says, they know how good they are. Sean and the "group" can feel comforted by the fact that very few people in Australia care enough any longer to even think about the "group". Indeed even at board and executive level most are ex-players and Wallabies, getting a pay check as well so they certainly won't worry too much about outside opinion.
Finally one last point to consider in ending my rant. Has Michael Cheika produced any results at any side past a single complete season? Tahs - No. Wallabies No. Munster?
Stade - sacked (not that I put too much on that because the French, you know). Motivational speakers can only take you so far before the lack of substance shows up.
notapatrioticboneinme
Sydney Middleton (9)
Passion?
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Nah, it was in reference to them charging into the Wallabies players after scoring their first two tries............ it was pretty poor sportsmanship. Thankfully they didn't carry on with it for the rest of the game.
Up the Guts
Steve Williams (59)
Start afresh next season, no one's spot is locked in. Part of our problem seems to be having a core group of players (especially in the backs) who we just systematically rotate if we're not playing well. Shouldn't be afraid to drop players who have been in the side for a while for those that's are in form.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The obvious problem with that setup is that there is only one kicker in the back three. I'd probably ditch Speight and stick DHP straight back in as soon as he's fit (underrated loss imo).
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
You've been on these threads for some time and I assume that the actually read what other people post before making comments like this. Assuming for a moment that you've read anything that I've posted over the years, but I'll give you summary: When I think the Waratahs are playing badly or being coached badly I'll say so, when I think that they are playing and/or being coached well I'll say so. Same with the Wallabies. When I think that Waratahs players play well for the Wallabies, I'll say so and if they play badly I'll acknowledge that. The same goes for referees and administrators. There's been nothing wrong with the referees on this tour - the only dud has been the incompetant who did the Barbarians v Wallabies game. In terms of Michael Cheika, I think he's the best available coach at the moment. I'll again make the observation that I was a lone voice in the wilderness in advocating Eddie Jones for the job post Link on the basis that Cheika had unfinished business at the Waratahs and was probably 2 or 3 years short of being ready for the Wallaby job. I don't agree with all his selections - some are quite odd as I've expressed from time to time. I also think that he does himself no favours with his antics in the coach's box and some of the thing he says at press conferences. What I will also say in his defence is that the state of the game of rugby in Australia at the moment is as weak as any time in the 50 years that I've followed the game. The administrators have allowed a situation to develop where the base of the game has slowly withered over the past 20 years. The results which we are seeing now at the professional level is a direct consequence of this. Our super sides were appalling in 2017 and there is a direct link to Wallabies performances. Broadly speaking, I think Cheika has done as well as anyone could have in the circumstances and I strongly doubt whether any other available person could achieve any better - in fact the evidence is they would probably be much worse; Larkham, MaGann, Graham, Foley, Gibson, Stiles- there just aint no saviour out there. Two years ago I predicted where we would be now in terms of results and have described it as the new normal on many occasions.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
21 wins out of 22 matches. Oh that the Wallabies could catch Eddie-itis.
notapatrioticboneinme
Sydney Middleton (9)
Yes this shoulder charge was bad but as for Kepu being a mongrel, lets say i'm wiping off my afternoon muesli from the monitor. sorry but i find that ridiculous Oh how i wish he had some mongrel in him, he's a friggin 'gentle giant' mate
notapatrioticboneinme
Sydney Middleton (9)
I'd suggest you try heel-raises (if you are not already) but an article has shown evidence that heel-raises might not decrease the load withing the tendon. And another article demonstrates how the achilles tendon is actually 3 separate tendons moving independently of each other. all the best
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Yes but throw in 6 games v the all blacks and see how his strike rate looks. They deserve to be #2 right now, im not disputing that. Whether they stay there beyond 2017 remains to be seen.
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Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
I reckon I could nearly draft a book on what is wrong and why it is wrong with Australian Rugby.
We probably all could have a go, but all those differing opinions would still fall on deaf ears.
Cheika "lost" the team about 18 months ago during the mid year tests. Sure he is supported by his nucleus of "favourites" and the blokes who would never have been picked by any well balanced HC. He tries to buy loyalty of players through selection.
He then becomes devoid of criticism from within.
The biggest problem that the players have when they run on the paddock is attitude. How to get it, how to keep it. Nathan Grey wouldn't recognise the word, it is not in his vocabulary, so has no idea on it's implementation . But Chek is equally if not more responsible than Grey.
It will be interesting moving forward.
We probably all could have a go, but all those differing opinions would still fall on deaf ears.
Cheika "lost" the team about 18 months ago during the mid year tests. Sure he is supported by his nucleus of "favourites" and the blokes who would never have been picked by any well balanced HC. He tries to buy loyalty of players through selection.
He then becomes devoid of criticism from within.
The biggest problem that the players have when they run on the paddock is attitude. How to get it, how to keep it. Nathan Grey wouldn't recognise the word, it is not in his vocabulary, so has no idea on it's implementation . But Chek is equally if not more responsible than Grey.
It will be interesting moving forward.
I'm a heel-raise (or in fact a heel lowering) in front of you.
Thanks for the tip; cheers! 
Jagman
Trevor Allan (34)
So let me ask this question: is the uniquely poor state of our super rugby teams not a mitigating factor in assessing Cheika as coach of the Wallabies?
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Hmmm, only a pretty small one, I would say. I think they were a bit off the pace fitness-wise at the start of the Test season, but that's about it. Otherwise, not really.
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