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Scotland v Australia 12Nov16 Saturday

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I like to watch

David Codey (61)
I don't think so, yeah he does have a timeframe for rotating the pigs & the 9.
But QC (Quade Cooper) has only been given token minutes off the bench this season.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
Cheika considered Cooper a better option at 10 than Foley 4 games ago, now he's afraid to put him on the park? Why pick him in the 23 at all.

To be fair TWAS, Cheika did mot necessarily consider Cooper a better 10. He seemed to want a twin playmaker set up, and with limited options there is just as much evidence that Cheika saw Foley as a better 12 and not necessarily Quade as a better 10.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
The discussion interestingly is not whether Foley or Cooper is the better 10 but Chek and his mindset.

Same old, same old (the mindset, I mean)
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
The talk about the bench has just become a variant of the Foley v Cooper debate. I'm off to the France match thread.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Dru fair point. I guess my point was more he was happy to play him for 80 minutes, and now he's afraid to put him on the park.

Fatprop we are hardly talking about this game. We specifically note that in 3 games Cheika has used 1 player for a total of 9 minutes. This is not an isolated case in 2016. You just don't like the conclusion this is meandering to.

ILTW, that's exactly it. Cheika is feeling the pressure. When Cheika is under pressure, he goes conservative. That's also when we see the worst results. EOYT 2014, June tests this year, etc.

The time he is willing to try things he tends to achieve the best results (e.g. Rugby Championship 2015).

And yeah, you exactly echo my point that he's made a rod for his own back with the finishers rhetoric. If he wants people and players to take his words and logic seriously he can't go applying it selectively. Half the people that are defending it were the same people who blew their loads of the use of the term "finisher".
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Speight did not make 1 clean break or beat any defenders and zero offloads. So he ran 8 times for 58 metres but as soon as a defender got near him he was tackled AND he died with the ball everytime.
Folau beat 4 defenders and offloaded 4 times.

So now we need a stat for offloads not completed.
Any Kiwi who got to where folau did would be happy to die with the ball and recycle to score on the next phase or the on after that etc etc.
 

PeterK

Alfred Walker (16)
So now we need a stat for offloads not completed.
Any Kiwi who got to where folau did would be happy to die with the ball and recycle to score on the next phase or the on after that etc etc.

except the ball would be turned over, there were 3 scots closer to folau than any wallaby
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
We don't have to be closer.
They have to go around him stop & reverse, to contest the breakdown,we just have to slow down slightly to make sure we flog them on the clean out.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Tevita made 10 tackles and missed 1. Hodge made 9 tackles. Yes they missed a crucial tackle but hardly fair to say poor defence. One more thing to those saying Speight had a poor game. He had the highest run metres at 58m; Kuridrani at 57 and Hodge at 56. Izzy made 29m and people are rating him as having a great game. Speight also made some crucial tackles and hits rucks like a forward. To say he had a poor game is going a little far. He spilt one high ball. Anyone would think he took someone's head off.



I thought watching the game Speight did not do much but your stats suggest he did ok. Maybe he did, yeh I noted him do some good defensive work besides high ball spilt. But whilst Izzy did not make many metres he always seem threatening with plays he did make with timed offloads. I just have not seen Speight as a threatening attacking winger. I note those who gave player ratings did not rate him highly either. In fairness, yes Speight is maybe has not had terrible games, but he still to many (including me) has not convinced that he is doing much more than keeping the 11 position warm until a better alternative arrives. Cough...Koroibete....
 

PeterK

Alfred Walker (16)
We don't have to be closer.
They have to go around him stop & reverse, to contest the breakdown,we just have to slow down slightly to make sure we flog them on the clean out.


Seriously? The tacklers just get up and take the ball, they don't have to go around anywhere, the other scots are already on the right side so just walk over him. There are many instances when Folau makesa break takes the tackle and the wallabies get a turnover due to poor ruck work or they are too slow.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
So it's one of these line breaks where he doesn't get through the line?
usually when he makes a line break there is no one behind the cover tackler.
 

Merrow

Arch Winning (36)
I thought watching the game Speight did not do much but your stats suggest he did ok. Maybe he did, yeh I noted him do some good defensive work besides high ball spilt. But whilst Izzy did not make many metres he always seem threatening with plays he did make with timed offloads. I just have not seen Speight as a threatening attacking winger. I note those who gave player ratings did not rate him highly either. In fairness, yes Speight is maybe has not had terrible games, but he still to many (including me) has not convinced that he is doing much more than keeping the 11 position warm until a better alternative arrives. Cough.Koroibete..
Fair enough but until I see Koroibete display halfway decent defensive skills (and actually play), I'll have to reserve judgement. Like everyone else I've only seen him play League.
 

PeterK

Alfred Walker (16)
So it's one of these line breaks where he doesn't get through the line?
usually when he makes a line break there is no one behind the cover tackler.


Like the situation where he made the hail mary pass. If he took the tackle there was very little chance wallabies would have retained the ball.
He made a line break / or beat defenders but more were coming across in cover.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Some stray thoughts from the match.

• Spare a thought for Scotland and their coach Vern Cotter - losing to the Wallabies by one point for the second time in a year, virtually, and this time the coach knowing that he wasn't wanted by Scotland and will move back to France.

• I can see why Huw Jones got his MOTM award for his brace of tries in his first starting test match - but can folks remember when he scored four tries in a Super Rugby match earlier in the year? He had a cracker in that game and looked like a future star. We are going to see and hear a lot more of H. Jones.

• But I would probably have given the gong to "Popeye" Pocock, even though I thought Scotland had the better back row, with no-frills 6. John Barclay getting a big shout from me also.

• That was a fine kick for the first Jones' try by Finn Russell, and one wondered why Foley didn't use a few himself until late in the game. But thank Huey that he had his goal-kicking boots on.

• 6N Player of the Tournament, fullback Stuart Hogg, didn't break the game open as is his habit, but at least he earned three points with the sneaky obstruction of Reece Hodge in the first minute of the game. Greig Laidlaw slotted a penalty goal soon after but should never have had the chance to.

• Kuridrani had a good, the bad and the ugly game: he seemed to trip over a blade of grass trying to tackle Jones when he scored his second try. When Kuridrani got a chance to redeem himself at the end of the game I was thinking "Pass the ball you farquing … oh that's OK then".

• Reece Hodge has found his right position now at inside centre but his combination with Kuridrani is not so stellar. And he dropped the Foley pass sent to him in front of Hooper; it was difficult for Hodge to sight the ball, which was a pity because he had only the fullback in front of him.

But methinks he is sometimes a step or two too far forward of the line of passes.

Everybody agrees that Skelton was a dickhead and should have cost us the game. I felt no great joy when he came back on either and my heart was in my mouth in the last phases as he attempted to be the Great Redeemer and was trying too hard defending in contact.

• It was all the more galling to me because against Wales the Wobs had cut out some of the stupid stuff, especially the high tackles that had plagued them in the RC.

• It's not the first time Kepu has been pinged taking a couple of lazy steps in front of the offside line. I've watched him do that so regularly in Waratahs' games that I think he may have astigmatism, or some such, and isn't as far back as he thinks.

• Adam Coleman has gone up even further in my estimation because the effect of his absence was telling even though Simmons played well - it's a pity he has been ruled out of the rest of the tour. Rory Arnold was OK too but his fluffing of a lineout take of a good throw, led to the ball bouncing and Scotland retrieving it, and eventually scoring.

Not to the above point but the Aussies should have stopped that try. The 13 that defended their goal line repeatedly against Wales in the RWC would have done better. It was a simple latch run by the Gray brothers, and well executed, but it was galling to see Scotland score like that in their first sally.

The Aussies should have presented a pair in a braced position and attacked the centre of gravity of the charge, but they acted singly and were too upright anyway.

At least the Aussie defence away from the goal line at the end made up for that poor effort.

• Phipps continues to impress with his dispatch of the ball, at least compared to some of his form earlier in the international season. Genia was not so effective in this game and his left-hand pass behind Folau made him turn and that led partly to the obstruction by Hodge, which ended the promising attack.

• Folau had some brilliant moments but could have gone to ground a couple of times. Ditto for Foley.

• Moore is playing better than in the RC, including his throwing to the lineout. You can't blame him for the lost lineout mentioned earlier - or for another one with about 15 minutes to go near his own line. Sometimes you have to give credit to opponents who make the right call and get up just in front.

• PS - Good job by James Horwill assisting Cotter and Paterson in the beIN commentary we got in Australia. He sounded like a natural who could be employed like that after he retires.
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Antony

Alex Ross (28)
That was the most enjoyable game I've attended since the Tahs v Crusaders final - I would give anything to have atmosphere like that at any sports event in Australia (maybe the AFL gives it a nudge - but AFL is kind of shit so it doesn't count).

I popped up a video of one of the Scottish tries on facebook - it doesn't show all the singing and bag-pipes etc., but it gives you a sense of how jammed the stadium was: https://www.facebook.com/afaisandier/videos/10100150084842761/
 

tragic

John Solomon (38)
The bench debate is a pretty ridiculous argument. It's all ludicrously hypothetical. We could have scored 10 tries, or let in 10 tries, or Cooper could have kicked the ball into the front row of the stands and killed a small child.

As it stands we won the game, rolling over the Scots in the last 10 minutes. Of all the things to take from the game I don't think 'bench strategy' is particularly high on the list.
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Really?
Two players on the bench not even getting a run.
In a game that we won by one point against the no 7 ranked side in the world.
Of course it warrants discussion.
Not to the exclusion of other facets of the game but its worth asking some serious questions about the bench composition before we reach the tougher part of the season.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
I popped up a video of one of the Scottish tries on facebook - it doesn't show all the singing and bag-pipes etc., but it gives you a sense of how jammed the stadium was: https://www.facebook.com/afaisandier/videos/10100150084842761/

Half your luck - it looked like a great atmosphere.

Incidentally Jonno Gibbes must have knocked off the quote you use in your posts, from Joe Theismann. He was a quarterback back in the day for Notre Dame when I was working over there, and he played pro for the Washington Redskins.

He won a Super Bowl ring and ended up doing commentary and he may have made that quote as a commentator tongue-in-cheek.
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Antony

Alex Ross (28)
Incidentally Jonno Gibbes must have knocked off the quote you use in your posts , from Joe Theismann. He was a quarterback back in the day for Notre Dame when I was working there, and he played pro for the Washington Redskins.

He won a Super Bowl ring and ended up doing commentary and he may have made that quote as a commentator tongue-in-cheek.
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Thanks for the background Lee, although I'm genuinely upset that it wasn't just Jono Gibbes saying it accidentally. I'll fossick about for a new quote, and will try to resist the urge to use "Darryl Gibson has been quite magnificent coming inside Andrew Mehrtens, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of the same today."
 
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