Schoolboy Rugby needs a review?

[Newbie]

Gentlemen,

Some food for thought!

As it stands Israel Folau is predicted to be the saviour of NSW rugby fortunes (if not Australia's). From what I have seen personally he was meant to play rugby, born to play the game (albeit needing some brushing up on the laws and nuances of the game).

According to very close source, namely his manager Isaac Moses, Mr Folau is loving rugby (and the feeling is reciprocal), and it could well be the case that he will want to continue the journey after his contract expires!

Now young Mr Folau attended Westfield Sports High before migrating with his family to 'Banana Land' (from what is published on the NSWRU website) and played rugby for his school. Alas it all ceased soon after crossing the border and the rest is history.

The point I make is this; how many other Folau's our out there? Not trying to provoke a debate, just some food for thought!

PS: I hope he is instrumental in smoking those banana bending, XXXX drinking red-necks this weekend. And given the fact he was born and raised in Sydney he finally playing in the right colours!

 

[Newbie]

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... The point I make is this; how many other Folau's our out there? Not trying to provoke a debate, just some food for thought! ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

I believe I found my answer on Saturday night! I think the ARU will sooner see the second coming then Folau as their saviour - LMAO

Was I wishing too hard fellas?

 

[Brian Westlake]

I believe I found my answer on Saturday night! I think the ARU will sooner see the second coming then Folau as their saviour - LMAO

Was I wishing too hard fellas?

Be careful what you wish for Newbs.

 

[whatever]

I believe I found my answer on Saturday night! I think the ARU will sooner see the second coming then Folau as their saviour - LMAO

Was I wishing too hard fellas?

Might have fired that pistol off to quickly there Newbie. Izzy has a lot to learn about the game, but I would not right him off also.

 

[Newbie]

Might have fired that pistol off to quickly there Newbie. Izzy has a lot to learn about the game, but I would not right him off also.

Whatever you're quite correct, and I will now draw some inspiration from his performance against the Rebels.

In addition can you all assist by saying the following prayer:


Our father who art in Heaven, Rugby be thy name;

Thy kingdom come, the Tahs have won, on earth as they will in heaven;

Give us this day our Super Rugby victory, and forgive us our forward passes;

As we forgive QLD who trespassed against us;

And lead Folau not into condemnation, but delivers him from league evil,

Amen.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Am I right in assuming that the ARU does not provide any subsidies or support private school rugby program's in anyway?

Until the ARU ponies up some money they will never have a say in how private schools run their rugby program's.

So talking about it is a waste of time and the ARU due to optics of giving money to private schools will not go down this path. Ain't going to happen.

Improvement to junior rugby has to focus on village clubs and public schools.

 

[Man on the hill]

Am I right in assuming that the ARU does not provide any subsidies or support private school rugby program's in anyway?

Until the ARU ponies up some money they will never have a say in how private schools run their rugby program's.

So talking about it is a waste of time and the ARU due to optics of giving money to private schools will not go down this path. Ain't going to happen.

Improvement to junior rugby has to focus on village clubs and public schools.

In truth I think the private schools (often referred to as independent schools) would in the most part reject the filthy ARU lucre because in the first instance they don't really need it and in the second , they would end up having to surrender bits of their independence.

Certainly in Sydney I would look for a western sun rise if the GPS & CAS schools took the money (were it ever offered).

That said, these same schools happily join the queue to get the Beldisloe Cup and player guest appearances - the same resources that village clubs use for promoting the game and recruiting.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

While the Individual Independent Schools receive no real money or support from ARU, the Australian Schoolboys receives substantial support for the National Open Schoolboy Champs (and Under 16's).

I have heard that the figure is about $100k to run the Schoolboys, and slightly less for the U16's.

The ARU HPU provide considerable assistance to the ISA, CHS, CAS (and GPS to a degree) rep teams and selection advice, and the NSW I and II teams not forgetting the assistance provided to the Under 16 Schools tournaments. I can only assume that similar is provided to the other states and territories.

The individual Independent Schools often bask in the glory of the numbers of their students that achieve representative honours in NSW I, NSW II, QLD Red/White, Aust Schoolboys etc. Without the considerable support of ARU and state unions, the opportunity for these representative honours would be more difficult to arrange.

In a symbiotic relationship, the various schoolboy rep teams need hard contested games from the Schoolboy competitions like AAGPS, CAS, Qld GPS to prepare the boys for the rep teams.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

In truth I think the private schools (often referred to as independent schools) would in the most part reject the filthy ARU lucre because in the first instance they don't really need it and in the second , they would end up having to surrender bits of their independence.

Certainly in Sydney I would like for a western sun rise if the GPS & CAS schools took the money (were it ever offered).

That said, these same schools happily join the queue to get the Beldisloe Cup and player guest appearances - the same resources that village clubs use for promoting the game and recruiting.

Taking money from the ARU would step across the educational line - these places are not formal rugby nurseries and any lurching toward the appearance of that could cause all sorts of consternation, to put it mildly, in the respective school communities.

 

[Man on the hill]

Yep $100k might be about it. But the 2 championships you reference are so much more than simple rugby tournaments now. The ARU use both for player education, coach development, referee development and referee coach development. By comparison, if you ask NSWJRU / SJRU what assistance they receive to stage the NSWJRU State Championships, I think the expression - stench of an oily rag might be thrown back at you.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^ Absolutely. You could also add in the QLD JRU champs, Aust JRU U17's, NSW JRU City vs Country Carnival day. Similar I would expect for ACT, VIC and WA. I reckon that they get the vapours from the off cuts of the oily rag.

If Servo is serious about grass roots......... but that is another thread.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Does anyone know with former Shute Sheild coaches now starting to appear in the ranks of private schools, which is the bigger driver

A. The schools are outbidding the clubs or
B. The clubs can no longer pay what previously did for coaching staff given the financial hole some find themselves in

If it is B this is more of a worry for Village Clubs due to the trickle down effect.

This coming on top of the proposed 3rd tier for which their is no upside for the Village Clubs.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This coming on top of the proposed 3rd tier for which their is no upside for the Village Clubs.

I cant see how the 3rd tier and village clubs are related: what do you mean?

 

[Kenny Powers]

I cant see how the 3rd tier and village clubs are related: what do you mean?

Maybe a little Sydney centric view of the world but most village clubs in Sydney at the juniors level are aligned with a Shute Shield club. Visits from the players, coaches, coaching clinics etc. An inserted third tier knocks everyone below down a peg or two.

Whatever form the new third tier takes do junior village clubs stick with existing arrangements or will they be expected to align with a third tier team for player & coaching & presentation day visits etc

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Maybe a little Sydney centric view of the world but most village clubs in Sydney at the juniors level are aligned with a Shute Shield club. Visits from the players, coaches, coaching clinics etc. An inserted third tier knocks everyone below down a peg or two.

Whatever form the new third tier takes do junior village clubs stick with existing arrangements or will they be expected to align with a third tier team for player & coaching & presentation day visits etc

As I understand it the 3rd tier is above the clubs - so their relationship with village clubs would stay the same - except if they (district clubs) cease to exist

 

[Quick Hands]

Does anyone know with former Shute Sheild coaches now starting to appear in the ranks of private schools, which is the bigger driver

A. The schools are outbidding the clubs or
B. The clubs can no longer pay what previously did for coaching staff given the financial hole some find themselves in

All of the above. And I'd probably add in:
C. Job security - a full time career in the school system as against a very short life span coaching club rugby.

 

[gpsoldboy]

All of the above. And I'd probably add in:
C. Job security - a full time career in the school system as against a very short life span coaching club rugby.

How many of them have positions at the moment?

 

[forwards4ever]

How many of them have positions at the moment?

I

I doubt that you can add the words "job security". It would depend on results I think. Those schools are cut throat places.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Only because CA and CNSW don't rely on the schools to produce their Sheffield Shield and Test match players.
Ed Cowan was the first private school boy since Phil Emery to make an Oz test team - and Emery was the first for years.
Also CNSW has a demanding (i.e. interferes with playing all other sport seriously) Emerging Blues program for ages from about 11 to 18.
Howl me down, but no kid with the ability and the desire to play test cricket will get there playing for his school.

Apologies for digression - but I have wondered about this for a LONG Time... Why is it that so very, very few Cricketers come out of the Private Schools systems in Queensland and NSW (in particular) generally these competitions take cricket very seriously - and generally, they have above-average to excellent facilities... What is it about the system that causes this miserable post-school promotion rate?

 

[I like to watch]

I am guessing it's because the Private School kids are basically being held back to play in their own age group.
Meanwhile talented Public school kids are being tested by playing against adults from about the age of 14 or 15.
By the time they are 18 they are playing 1st grade cricket, and have already corrected any weaknesses that have been exposed by playing up.