School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Hugh Jarse]

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Should we mention your lad that plays in Uni 2 colts?
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The list of people on Scholarships at Sydney University is printed on a board in the Swimming Pool near the entrance. There are a stack of names listed and it includes about 30-40 names with Rugby listed as their sport. All up there are about 150 names listed as being on scholarship with all sorts of sports.

Despite this, unlike AAGPS, there is no prohibition against scholarships/inducements in Shute Shield Colts, and most of the top clubs offer a variety of inducement packages to recruit and retain talent. This little can of worms is for the Colts Thread not the Schoolboys Sporting Scholarships Thread.

 

[The Guru]

What is the driver of making that substantial investment? If it is important for the kids of BBC to win the rugby, why was there only about 30-50 BBC kids there (at home) to watch their 1st XV (and there was barely "peep" out of them)? Who drives the decision to have that much money invested in rugby with so little support from the student body (and so little return on investment)?[/


This would have to be the most moronic and ridiculous post I have seen on the Qld schoolboys thread.
I have often postulated on the level of scholarships at NC,TSS and ACGS- but I would never have been insane enough to put it in print based on gossip.
I am reliably informed that Jake the Pegs son was in the previously undefeated ACGS 14 E team that lost 10-5 on Saturday-hence his lack of perspective,
Every school in Qld imports-they have to ,so as to ensure that whenever ACGS bring in another Quade Cooper,David Pocock or Jack Schatz they only get beaten by 60 points & not 100.
The lunacy of your post can be seen from your failure to understand that the schools do not "pay" or "invest" in scholarships-they are generated by an Old Boys fund or a school bursary(investment fund). It is not as if they are taking the place of other boys waiting to get in..
You are right about one thing-the boys at ACGS on scholarships are certainly performing.Consider this:
1) in 2013 ACGS came last in GPS swimming.In 2014 they came "1st"(a jump of 9 places) and didnt win a single grade 8 race.Never been done before.IPSO FACTO -the new boys in grades 9 to 12 were shit hot;
2) in 2013 ACGS came last in GPS tennis.In 2014 with 3 new boys in grade 10 and 11 all from Mackay they came 2nd;
3) In 2014 ACGS 1st xv are the only defeated team & have put 60 points on 2 schools.They have 3 Australian schoolboys,1 boy with Broncos and 1 with the Cowboys..all the new Aussie schoolboys started in grade 11 last year-and the prop arrived in 2nd term as a "full fee paying student" from Keebra Park High on Gold coast so he was then able to play 1st xv.The boy with Broncos started this year in grade 11.
The ACGS 1st xv is a brilliant ,carefully orchastrated team.Good luck to them.
So Jake-can you help the other schools get their investments right???

Apart from the above:
1) ACGS came 2nd in GPS cricket this year with 3 new boys all from NT state team all in grade 11 and all playing A grade for Valleys . All on scholarships ;
2) for the last 2 years the ACGS 1sts in basketball have smashed everybody . It's a no contest and the scores are ridiculous . They have 5 in state team and 1 boy ? White who was just named by Nike as one of the top ten in the world ( yes world- not Australia) for his age. Prefect timing how they all come together in grade 11
You forgot to mention that Karmichael Hunt was another big ( famous) ACGS import . How many tries did he score that year!!
So Jake the Peg why is winning so important !!!!

Welcome to Qld GPS -the only sporting comp without a salary cap

 

[The Guru]

Hmmm - ACGS won 9 out of 42 events, 3 of which were U13 (yr 8), and 4 out of the 5 older age individual winners were at the school in 2013, and did not break a record - hardly shit hot. Their points went from 172 to 257 - hardly an insurmountable difference in one year especially with a good U13s entering the school and replacing a weak (almost non-existent) Opens age group in 2013.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=2939785
http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=2281228

Who are you trying to kid. Last to first !!! In one year.

 

[I like to watch]

?..........Their points went from 172 to 257 - hardly an insurmountable difference in one year especially with a good U13s entering the school and replacing a weak (almost non-existent) Opens age group in 2013.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=2939785
http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=2281228

Umm 257 from 172 is an improvement of 50%
That's a significant improvement in one year!

 

[Quick Hands]

One assumes from the last few posts that not much coaching and development goes in in Years 7-10 at ACGS. But why would you put all that time and effort into making your own kids, who are paying full fees, better when you can just bring in a few hired guns in Year 11?

 

[Brian Westlake]

The list of people on Scholarships at Sydney University is printed on a board in the Swimming Pool near the entrance. There are a stack of names listed and it includes about 30-40 names with Rugby listed as their sport. All up there are about 150 names listed as being on scholarship with all sorts of sports.

Despite this, unlike AAGPS, there is no prohibition against scholarships/inducements in Shute Shield Colts, and most of the top clubs offer a variety of inducement packages to recruit and retain talent. This little can of worms is for the Colts Thread not the Schoolboys Sporting Scholarships Thread.

I beg to differ Hugh. If rugby mum 11 wished to partake in a scattergun approach and her hatred of Riverview, should she not be reminded of her own sons team that was packed to the gunwhales with anomalies? Its not about Riverview having bursaries or Kings, or SJC, whatever... But to go on the front foot when she has been a recipient of scholarship/bursary for her son smacks of a double standard that I am still trying to figure out. I know that Colts are being offered everything from Tertiary assistance onwards. This i have no problem with either.
But because a kid goes to the same school as his father/grandfather etc. and gets a bit of fee relief due to this history???? Is it not dissimilar, especially in large families to get sibling discounts for all of these schools?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Hmmm. Ex Newington and Colts 2 at The Corporation narrows it down. Pleasant distraction but we digress.

The idea of family discount is nothing new. The Edmund Rice schools offer discounts to such a point that 4th child is free.

Targeting offspring of old boys is hardly in breach of the AAGPS Code of Practice with respect to forming part of an enrolment strategy that is providing financial assistance to talented sportsmen. Are the View Old Boys Bursaries provided solely for the benefit of sons of Old Boys, or can non-Old Boys sons benefit from Bursaries funded by the Old Boys Association. If the latter, then it would need to be established that that fund was part of a strategy that provided assistance to talented sportsmen, rather than a strategy that provided assistance to talented (or disadvantaged) students, some of whom may or may not be useful at sports.

It is of some relief that the the thread has (temporarily) moved on from taking the high ground against some minor enrolment irregularities at one School.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Targeting offspring of old boys is hardly in breach of the AAGPS Code of Practice with respect to forming part of an enrolment strategy that is providing financial assistance to talented sportsmen.

HJ - this is a very odd approach.

Financial assistance to talented sportsmen shall not form part of the enrolment strategy of any member school.

If the sons of old boys are targeted because they are talented sportsmen it is a breach.
Resort to black letter interpretations in defence of enrolments by requiring proof of a strategy is only consistent with a complete break down in trust between the schools.
None of them - even the worst offenders - would argue for a black letter interpretation in defence of their irregularities - none has.
We evidently have a different view of the meaning of the word "minor": for me its a relative concept and replacing a whole team with imports is not "minor".
That should stir things up.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

John Smith-Smythe-Smith is an Old Boy of "The Academy" and he has three sons, Aaron, Bruce and Christopher. John wasn't much of a sportsman, and only one of his boys shows real sporting talent (Bruce).

If all three Smith-Smythe-Smith boys land Academy Old Boys Bursaries then that Financial Assistance to Bruce does not appear to have been part of the enrolment strategy targeting talented sportsmen.

If only Bruce lands an Academy Old Boys Association Bursary and the others don't, then that suggests that the Academy may be using the Old Boys Bursaries to attract talented sportsmen.

Should Bruce be denied an Academy Old Boys Association Bursary because he happens to be a talented athlete, even though Aaron and Christopher get one?




Maybe I am just using Dr "Mattress" Lambert's definition of minor in terms of the scope of irregularities at his school, and extrapolating that to other schools who have also had irregularities in the past.

 

[formerflanker]

Dr "Mattress" Lambert'

Where does that nickname come from?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Where does that nickname come from?

Comes from my twee alternate reality.

About 2:20 in this sketch.

 

[Galloper]

The Brisbane experience as defined in post 5211 makes me nauseous.

You should try watching it first-hand, it's truly depressing, particularly for those who went to school under the old "luck of the draw" system.."

 

[lincoln]

One assumes from the last few posts that not much coaching and development goes in in Years 7-10 at ACGS. But why would you put all that time and effort into making your own kids, who are paying full fees, better when you can just bring in a few hired guns in Year 11?

Possibly best to research the QAGPS swimming website to verify specious claims made on this site. Not saying there are no scholars but the previous poster's contentions are clearly wrong (am anal and have done the 2013 and 2014 comparison). My observations are: 1. Two boys improved beyond their peers (see 15/16s); 2. The year 12 cohort in 2013 were hopeless; 3. The year 8 cohort in 2014 were unusually good but did not break a record so not extraordinary; & 4. Two new individual swimmers in years 9-12, one of whom won an event.

 

[Quick Hands]

Possibly best to research the QAGPS swimming website to verify specious claims made on this site. Not saying there are no scholars but the previous poster's contentions are clearly wrong (am anal and have done the 2013 and 2014 comparison). My observations are: 1. Two boys improved beyond their peers (see 15/16s); 2. The year 12 cohort in 2013 were hopeless; 3. The year 8 cohort in 2014 were unusually good but did not break a record so not extraordinary; & 4. Two new individual swimmers in years 9-12, one of whom won an event.

Basketball, cricket, tennis, rugby et al?

 

[Brainstrust]

I agree.
How many in the 'view 1st XV?

I dont know the actual number of boys on bursaries, but a mate with boys there tells me it 90+ ? Of that number of students, only a small number actually play in there respective A teams, which is probably no different to what the normal distribution would be in any population sample. They also have, and have had a few indiginous students presented to them from the independent Yalari program which I believe that the school has no selection input. So the question about bursaries being disguised as sport scholarships should come down to what percentage of those boys are playing top level sport. That will give you a real sense of whether the funded school opportunities are genuinely about giving disadvantaged students a go, or about pumping up the schools performance on the sporting field. From what I gather the Joeys would be similar to Riverview, but some schools are probably batting well over the norm.

 

[RUGBYGIRL11]

The Joeys Indigenous Program has vested capital of some $6 million and is a production line for talented sports stars


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[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ It's not helping them to win AAGPS Rugby Premierships.

I reckon that you have found a spotted red herring.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The Joeys Indigenous Program has vested capital of some $6 million and is a production line for talented sports stars


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Name the last one

 

[RUGBYGIRL11]

Look on the website
They release an annual report each year
It's all there in print



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[Quick Hands]

Look on the website
They release an annual report each year
It's all there in print



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Just had a look at one of the annual reports of which you speak.

http://www.joeys.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/SJCIF-2011.pdf

It highlights the achievements of aboriginal ex-students - none of them appear to be sports stars. They appear to be just ordinary people making a go of life.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree with this.