School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Hugh Jarse]

are you blokes talking about voldermort or Harry Jones? you can say his name you know this is the scholarship thread.

neither
H Jones is not on a scholarship

 

[George Smith]

So, are we all in agreement on scholarships? If you are on scholarship for providing Sporting Services in return for an "education + food & lodging (for some)" then you have a contract to uphold. Conversely, if you are not on any kind of contract (scholarship) then anytime outside formal/scheduled time allocated by the employer (school) is yours to do what you like.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

What about a kid on a musical scholarship. Should they be allowed to play for the local Salvos brass band after school hours?

 

[George Smith]

What about a kid on a musical scholarship. Should they be allowed to play for the local Salvos brass band after school hours?

If endorsed by their 'employer'. The pertinent thing here is the primary relationship between the two parties and the right for the "employee" to allocate their time within contracted hours. A bit like you & I playing golf or watching the Schools Rugby Champs when we are meant to be attending a Board Meeting or sitting an exam.

 

[George Smith]

I know of one GPS school who "strongly" counselled a (music) scholarship student to discontinue participating in the local council's City Band as this was compromising him in his school run activities (2 x music bands, swimming, basketball, pre-season rugby and his academic classes)! needless to say the student drew a line in the sand when it came to club rugby, which he continued to play and love, much to the chagrin of the school.

So it seems that the GPS schools treat the scholarship holders in a similar way??

 

[George Smith]

I hear, and I am not surprised, that Dr Hawkes is on thin ice ATM and his tenure may be drawing to a close. Recent decisions (Jones et al) by him and the conduct of the School in the last few years suggest he has now spent too many years nurturing his ego and its time to move on.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I found this gem of a post in the Queensland Trials thread (my bold facing):

Thanks Jordan.

I was just having a look at the programme and it also has the Qld Schoolboys teams from 1973, 1993 and 2003.

The thing that struck me from the 1993 and 2003 teams was how little of those young men actually went on to any serious level in professional football.

From the 1993 teams totalling 42 players there are only four names I recognise as going on. These are Ben Tune (Qld 1), Sean Hardman, Elton Flatley and Mark Bartholemuz (Qld 2). Another player was Adam Dale from SLC who I believe went on to a great cricket career.

In the 2003 teams totalling 46 players there is only one Wallaby, Digby Ioane.

I just find this amazing that so few go on to representative level after schoolboys, particularly in this day and age of professional rugby when you can make some type of living from the sport.

This supports the view that is often expressed that schoolboy stardom is not a free ticket to higher representation or a professional rugby playing career.

I haven't independently corroborated this, but I have been told that there are more neurosurgeons in Australia than professional rugby players. It sounds logical. The point is that the chances of becoming a Wallaby are extremely slim, 200000+ senior male rugby players to produce 40 Wobs.

The list of previous NSW Schools I's and II's are available on the NSW Schools web site. Any keen spreadsheeters able to run those lists against the Wobs or consolidated list of Super Rugby players?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

ASRU has the following on the website: http://austschools.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=24299

presumably senior international must include U20s/21s given the inclusion of To'omua.
i would take a more positive approach (quite unlike me) and say that just because you dont make Australian Schools doesnt me you wont be a Wallaby: it is axiomatice from this list that more blokes play for the Wallabies who never played OzScools.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

We look very fondly on the 1977/78 schoolboy team that produced 10 Wallabies.

The 2005 team produced 11 Wallabies. What will they be saying about them in the year 2049?

 

[sootyanddave]

6 of the elite Schools will supply 50% of NSW Schoolboys squad this year.
maybe the facts support the perception?

27 out of 46 in the squad (60%)
21 of 3o starters (70%)
Actually the facts now outweigh the perception.
Who would have thought 6 Schools would have supplied 70% of the starters in the NSW Squads?

 

[GTPIH]

ASRU has the following on the website: http://austschools.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=24299
View attachment 3805
presumably senior international must include U20s/21s given the inclusion of To'omua.
i would take a more positive approach (quite unlike me) and say that just because you dont make Australian Schools doesnt me you wont be a Wallaby: it is axiomatice from this list that more blokes play for the Wallabies who never played OzScools.

To'omua toured with 2009 Wallaby Tour to UK but only played midweek, so that could be it. Agree with your take on Wallabies v Schools

 

[Inside Shoulder]

We look very fondly on the 1977/78 schoolboy team that produced 10 Wallabies.

The 2005 team produced 11 Wallabies. What will they be saying about them in the year 2049?

To'omua toured with 2009 Wallaby Tour to UK but only played midweek, so that could be it. Agree with your take on Wallabies v Schools

What we need to know is what the NZ conversion rate is - but their online schools info only goes back to 2011

 

[forwards4ever]

27 out of 46 in the squad (60%)
21 of 3o starters (70%)
Actually the facts now outweigh the perception.
Who would have thought 6 Schools would have supplied 70% of the starters in the NSW Squads?

How many of them started high school in the AAGPS? I think we know they are not all produced in the "system" just telescoped there when identified around 15 or 16.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Compared to some advertising I've seen, I have no problem with the 7's advertising. Believe or not it, but advertising is apparently used quite frequently in the real world to help defray costs. I'd call it sound financial management by Scots.

Thought you might find the below interesting.

Upfront I will make the comment I have no problem with this, fantastic opportunity for all boys involved. I have posted it given the issues others on this forum have with schools and advertising.

The below video has been posted by Land Rover Australia on Youtube.

The associated comments by Land Rover Australia were;

Land Rover were responsible for providing the opportunity to this group of school children and the players delivered kit to the school including tackle bags, hit shields, tackle suits and post protectors in Land Rover Discovery 4 vehicles.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Thought you might find the below interesting.

Upfront I will make the comment I have no problem with this, fantastic opportunity for all boys involved. I have posted it given the issues others on this forum have with schools and advertising.

The below video has been posted by Land Rover Australia on Youtube.

The associated comments by Land Rover Australia were;

Land Rover were responsible for providing the opportunity to this group of school children and the players delivered kit to the school including tackle bags, hit shields, tackle suits and post protectors in Land Rover Discovery 4 vehicles.

Interesting?
It's a worry.
The lions branded kit sans land rover logos doesn't worry me but my son is in that video. We were asked for permission and told there would be media but not that it would be used as advertising for land rover.
That pisses me off. This is using kids for commercial gain.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Snort]

I don't spend much time in this thread because everyone ends up saying the same things with no resolution in prospect. But go and have a look at the NSW Schools teams. Newington has ten players in the two squads, one in the shadow team. So 11 of its 1st XV are regarded as being NSW Schools standard or thereabouts. This doesn't happen by accident. It happens by recruiting proactively and by offering inducements.

And you know what? I don't mind. A lot of people care a lot about GPS Rugby, and if a school cares enough to put a good team together, who am I to quibble? (Yes, I know, one or two of them started in the Prep School. But we all know that others started at St Augustine's, or wherever.) GPS is already a two-speed association, with the schools that recruit playing among themselves and the others falling by the wayside, so why not let the upper tier go turbo?

But what I do mind is the hypocrisy. I'm sure the Newington Headmaster would say that all that newington has done is create an environment that's attractive to elite Rugby players. Or any of the other similar stuff you hear. And, yes, newington has a long history of association with Tonga.

But 11 NSW Schools players? Come on. Joeys barely got that back in the day when they were dominant. These are not 11 coincidences.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't spend much time in this thread because everyone ends up saying the same things with no resolution in prospect. But go and have a look at the NSW Schools teams. Newington has ten players in the two squads, one in the shadow team. So 11 of its 1st XV are regarded as being NSW Schools standard or thereabouts. This doesn't happen by accident. It happens by recruiting proactively and by offering inducements.

And you know what? I don't mind. A lot of people care a lot about GPS Rugby, and if a school cares enough to put a good team together, who am I to quibble? (Yes, I know, one or two of them started in the Prep School. But we all know that others started at St Augustine's, or wherever.) GPS is already a two-speed association, with the schools that recruit playing among themselves and the others falling by the wayside, so why not let the upper tier go turbo?

But what I do mind is the hypocrisy. I'm sure the Newington Headmaster would say that all that newington has done is create an environment that's attractive to elite Rugby players. Or any of the other similar stuff you hear. And, yes, newington has a long history of association with Tonga.

But 11 NSW Schools players? Come on. Joeys barely got that back in the day when they were dominant. These are not 11 coincidences.

Lets just see how many they get in the NSWs u16's

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Wrong: you need to go back to 2011 to see who is bobbing up in 1st XV's this year and where they were when they were under 16.
That information is available in this thread - and you know it.

Where are they now? I found this list of 2011 NSW Schools Under 16 Team while "researching" for another post.
Source: http://www.nswschoolsrugby.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=183993
The 2011 Under 16 SJRU boys are not listed by school, therefore no comment.George Smith may have access to thst listing, he is usually good at spreadsheets and "buddha research".

The red text is my value add and is what team they may will be in at 2013 U18 National Schools.

As said elsewhere, being selected (or not selected) at U16's is not a guarantee that the same will occur for U18's. Some of these boys have left school and are therefore ineligible for the ASRU U18 tournament.

Not too many have changed school.

Matthew Sandell (vc) (St Joseph’s College), NSW I
Oliver Takiveikata (Westfield’s SHS),
Jarrod Matairavula (Pendle Hill High School),
Peter Maa (Westfield’s SHS),
Joshua Schwager (St Joseph’s College),
Ben Stacey (The King’s School),
Lachlan Taylor (Glenwood HS),
Oliver Kamp (Scots College), Combined States
Anthony Vasilis (Randwick Boys HS), NSW II
Rory Davis (The King’s School), Combined States
Andrew Deegan (c) (St Joseph’s College), NSW I
Oscar Pople (Newington College),
Taane Milne (Randwick Boys HS), NSW I
Tepai Moeroa (Newington), NSW I
Adrian Delore (Whitebridge HS), Combined States
Andrew Kellaway (Scot’s College), NSW I
Jack King (St Ignatius College),
Doug Streeter (Shore School), Shadow
George Prassas (Newington College),
Daniel Hughes (St Joseph’s College),
Joey Lussick (Newington College), NSW II
Alexander Lyons (St Ignatius College)
Hayden Cochrane (St Augustine’s College)
Lachlan Cannell (Killara HS) injured 2011, NSW I.

Coach: Brad Gill Newington College
Asst Coach: Luke Bower Cranbrook School
Manager: John Rownes Knox Grammar School

 

[Spieber]

^^^^interesting - CHS could have had a pretty handy team this year if 3 of these chaps had stayed where they were.

 

[Kenny Powers]

But go and have a look at the NSW Schools teams. Newington has ten players in the two squads, one in the shadow team. So 11 of its 1st XV are regarded as being NSW Schools standard or thereabouts. This doesn't happen by accident. It happens by recruiting proactively and by offering inducements...............

But 11 NSW Schools players? Come on. Joeys barely got that back in the day when they were dominant. These are not 11 coincidences.

Joeys barely got that back in the day when they were dominant..........

Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but in 2005 Joeys had 11 NSW School reps in the two NSW squads and none in the shadow squad. So they have actually bettered Newington's 2013 result. It's on the AAGPS website, have copied and pasted below.

In 2006 still very good, 9 NSW School reps in the two squads.

I only went and looked at these two years as David Kirk represented them in his article as some type of golden era to look back on.



GPS REPRESENTATIVES IN NSWSRU

NSW 1STS
DANIEL ROACH (SIC)
SAM EGAN (SIC)
ROBERT McMICKAN (TSC)
PHIL MATHERS (TKS)
MATTHEW DAY (SJC)
ALISTAIR CLIFTON (SIC)
T NORVAL (BC)
PATRICK McCUTCHEON (SJC)
NATHAN SIEVERT (SJC)
KURTLEY BEALE (SJC)
WILLIAM GRESHAM (SJC)
MITCHELL INMAN (SIC)
A BARRETT (ILLAWARRA)
LACHLAN ROSENGREEN (SGS)
LACHALN TURNER (NC)
R O’CONNOR (NORMANHURST)
DANIEL O’CONNOR (TSC)
TOM DUNWORTH (SJC)
J PALOU (BALGOWLAH)
B McCALLUM (KWS)
MATTHEW SCHWAGER (SJC)
R KELLAM (CUMBERLAND)
CODEY MEDWAY (SJC)

NSW 2NDS
D PALMER (WARILLA)
S DREWE(CHEVALLIER)
K WARD (PTMACQUARIE)
M WOOLVEN (PITWATTER HS)
J BARRY (BC)
DAVID ARMSTRONG (SJC)
JAMES McMAHON (SJC)
HADAMS(BC)
S BRADLEY (BARRENJOEY)
M DE LORE (WHITEBRIDGE)
JUSTIN BOSILKOSVKI (NC)
R O’REILLY (TGS)
PETER BETHAM (SJC)
CHRIS YARRINGTON (SHORE)
P MCCABE (SAC)
C CROUCHER (HVGS)
A SAVOSKI (FRANCIS XAVIER)
D SMITH (BARRENJOEY)
W VALAWALU(KWS)
M PORPIGLIA (PRAIREWOOD)
D ROBINSON (SSC)
A MCKENZIE (FARRAH)
A MAFI (WESTFIELDS)

SHADOW TEAM
TOM BOWDEN (TSC)
TOM GORMAN (SIC)