School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Hugh Jarse]

Hugh Jarse could the "President" have made a, Gillard like, "Captain's choice".
These teams are not called GPS teams in the draw.

Silly old me. You are absolutely right Inside Shoulder. You should practice Law.

Once again, Old Hugh jumps the gun and assumes that because the President has always and nearly exclusively invited AAGPS students to be in his Presidents team, that it was limited to AAGPS boys. I guess old mate, the President, is sending a message to all of us that if a kid is unwanted by their School association, they are still welcome to trial in front of the Selectors as part of selection procedures for the Pressies Team.

You don't exist as an Association for >100 years without developing some native cunning. I doffs me lid to the port swilling, leather elbow patch wearing, cigar smokers.

 

[Rugby Mum]

I saved it i think on my ipad. Could i make a small fortune??lol

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Don't put the offer in on the Palm Beach Holiday home just yet Rugby Mum.

Already posted on the 16's thread.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...swjru-sjru-crju-2013.12708/page-7#post-500236

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Silly old me. You are absolutely right Inside Shoulder. You should practice Law.

Once again, Old Hugh jumps the gun and assumes that because the President has always and nearly exclusively invited AAGPS students to be in his Presidents team, that it was limited to AAGPS boys. I guess old mate, the President, is sending a message to all of us that if a kid is unwanted by their School association, they are still welcome to trial in front of the Selectors as part of selection procedures for the Pressies Team.

You don't exist as an Association for >100 years without developing some native cunning. I doffs me lid to the port swilling, leather elbow patch wearing, cigar smokers.

He's big but he's nothing particularly special.

 

[Tight head Lion]

I was teaching there in 2007 @ TSC when the program was discussed and support group approached to find players. Looking back it was driven by empire builders who gave nothing back to the juniors. I am ashamed to have been associated with this and glad I left.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Credit to George Smith.
Very interesting insight into how this problem got started in the AAGPS - you may have some views Tight head Lion

 

[Kenny Powers]

Elements of David Kirks article are poorly researched and argued if he thinks the 2005 and 2006 comps were some type of golden years to look back on.

Let's look at the stats from both years

2005 Premiers - Joeys

412 for and 66 against average score 59-9

High were very weak that year take their result out and you still have an average scoreline of 51-9

2006 Premiers Joeys

321 for and 59 against average score 45-8

High once again were weak that year take their result out and you still have an average scoreline of 37-8.

Hardly a close and balanced competition.

So David I think those schools were trying to catch up to Joeys rather than avoid being beaten by Grammar.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ How are things in the Paraguay Embassy?

Wonder where this will go? We live in interesting times.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Elements of David Kirks articles are poorly researched and argued if he thinks the 2005 and 2006 comps were some type of golden years to look back on.

Let's look at the stats from that from both years

2005 Premiers - Joeys

412 for and 66 against average score 59-9

High were very week that year take their result out and you still have an average scoreline of 51-9

2006 Premiers Joeys

321 for and 59 against average score 45-8

High once again were week that year take their result out and you still have an average scoreline of 37-8.

Hardly a close and balanced competition.

So David I think those schools were trying to catch up to Joeys rather than avoid being beaten by Grammar.

You seem to overlook the decisive coincidence: when did SJC last win the comp?


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[Kenny Powers]

You seem to overlook the decisive coincidence: when did SJC last win the comp?


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So do you agree the motivation was more about catching up to Joeys than avoid being beaten by Grammar as David Kirk implies?

Also interestingly in his article he mentions Kurtley Beale, scoring 5 tries against Grammar. Arguably the most famous scholarship holder to date in the GPS system. Personally I don't have problem with Kurtley Beale having gone thru Joeys on a scholarship. I would like to know David Kirks opinion on this.

 

[Brian Westlake]

^^^^
Ken old mate, do you realise just how imflammatory you are sometimes?
Stop being a naysayer. Wake up and realise that not only is your school that you may have attended or your son goes to actually does not do the right thing?
Yes Kurtley Beale was on a scholarship that was funded by the indigenous program. Yes he is a bloody good footballer. Yes he has benefitted from attending St Josephs. BUT and I throw this back to you right now Ken, is it right to pay a kid a stipend, when already on a scholarship to stay at school?

 

[Kenny Powers]

^^^^
Ken old mate, do you realise just how imflammatory you are sometimes?
Stop being a naysayer. Wake up and realise that not only is your school that you may have attended or your son goes to actually does not do the right thing?
Yes Kurtley Beale was on a scholarship that was funded by the indigenous program. Yes he is a bloody good footballer. Yes he has benefitted from attending St Josephs. BUT and I throw this back to you right now Ken, is it right to pay a kid a stipend, when already on a scholarship to stay at school?

Like I said in my post I don't have a problem with Kurtley Beale having gone thru on a Scholarship fantastic opportunity for him. Entirely consistent with previous posts I have made regarding boys and parents taking up opportunities presented to them.

I also believe things have gone too far in the process of catching up.

However if David Kirk is going to take the stance he has taken he should deliver the same criticism to Joeys, he elected to kick for touch.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So do you agree the motivation was more about catching up to Joeys than avoid being beaten by Grammar as David Kirk implies?

Also interestingly in his article he mentions Kurtley Beale, scoring 5 tries against Grammar. Arguably the most famous scholarship holder to date in the GPS system. Personally I don't have problem with Kurtley Beale having gone thru Joeys on a scholarship. I would like to know David Kirks opinion on this.

The problem with identifying that as the motive is that, if it were the motive, it took them 90-100 years to react to it: all you need to do is to cast your mind back to earlier posts in this thread to recall that one Newington OB was happy with the arms race (@HughJarse acknowledged as coiner of phrase) because he had never beaten SJC or seen them beaten.
They're dominance, by whatever means, of rugby is historical fact.
I don't think you can discount Kirk's theory, and @tigheadlion seems to confirm it. NC's and TSC'S decision may have a slightly more subtle undertone: losing to SGS may have been the wake up call to their egos causing them to realise how far behind the perennial premiers they had fallen - perhaps even further than history suggested to that point.
I, for one, felt somewhat embarrassed to read Kirk's piece and to realise that here was a Rhodes Scholar, All Black and until recently the only Kiwi to ever hold the WWE trophy aloft who was saying that, effectively, rugby in the GPS system had become too hyped and its real significance as a mere part of an education had been completely lost in all but 3 schools.
Shore produces perfectly serviceable 1stXVs with many reps with no recruiting. Why isn't that the aim?
Does KB (Kurtley Beale) represent what most parents want to see for their $30k p.a?


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[Hugh Jarse]

./..snip../..
Does KB (Kurtley Beale) represent what most parents want to see for their $30k p.a?

Clearly not because there are a stack of parents paying similar sorts of fees at non AAGPS schools.
Just glance down the schools listing in the AICES team lists. The private education sector is rather large.

Does KB (Kurtley Beale) represent what most parents in the AAGPS want to see for their fees?
Hmmm ... have to say that many seem to be happyish with that, otherwise the practice would be stopped.

 

[strokeside]

The schools have done their research, they know that any resistance to fee discounting that is building will move through the school and within a couple of years will be gone, so all they have to do is ignore it and it will soon go away.

 

[strokeside]

At the school my sons attended the MIC of rugbys' brother is a junior club referee, I know for a fact that any talented players he spots he refers back to his brother, and that same MIC encourages his school players to recommend talented mates to fill perceived weaknesses in his teams. And it's not Scots.

 

[strokeside]

My thoughts on the article.


The Director of sport was charged with talent scouting

loved you choice of wording ThL, I wonder what the penalty was?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Does KB (Kurtley Beale) represent what most parents in the AAGPS want to see for their fees?
Hmmm . have to say that many seem to be happyish with that, otherwise the practice would be stopped.

That's a very interesting take.
In a way it highlights the problem - they want the good but they fail to see a potential connection to the bad and by wanting the good so much they ignore or dont address the bad.
Treating adolescents differently because they happen to be good at sport is a recipe for long term problems: look at the College recruiting rules in the USA - sure they get breached but imagine if they didn't exist.

 

[Think About Rugby]

Like I said in my post I don't have a problem with Kurtley Beale having gone thru on a Scholarship fantastic opportunity for him. Entirely consistent with previous posts I have made regarding boys and parents taking up opportunities presented to them.

I also believe things have gone too far in the process of catching up.

However if David Kirk is going to take the stance he has taken he should deliver the same criticism to Joeys, he elected to kick for touch.

I sense a big difference between a scholarship from year 7 as opposed to yrs 10 & 11. The latter is a risk management strategy with little emphasis on improving the educational outcome for the child.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There are also a fair few boys who attend school from year 7 paying full tariff that focus on their athletic endeavours with the school similarly not improving the educational outcome for the child.

I would say that many of the Scholarship boys that I am aware of actually hit the books quite hard at their new schools. The worm has also turned away from producing elite but dumb jocks in the various Gold squads and academies around the place. Manu and the Koala Club insist on educational progress being made. I am hearing the same sort of messages coming from the other "elite" programmes as well.

The behaviour of the Wallaby Three Muppeteers may actually have a positive impact on the what is in the programmes that the future talented athletes undergo.