School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Spieber]

I am though now 110% more aware that within NSW GPS circles one is not allowed to bring up this subject. I should have been aware of this. Sorry.

My guess is that in any circle people would take issue with anyone that accuses their stated position as being one based primarily on race. Why leave it at GPS, why not extend it to politics, AFL, religion, sexual preferences. "Oh I disagree with your point of view because you are a racist" doesn't work in any rationale discussion absent someone expressing a view that has racial over/undertones aka Eddie.

 

[Spieber]

It would seem the issue of "leadership/all-rounder" scholarships is endemic in the Uniting School system. A quote from Stephen Mayne's blog on "makewesleyaccountable.com"

"This group believes that Wesley could well manage to transition off federal funding without any diminution in the quality of teaching. It might mean:

• Abolition of a $3M per annum ‘scholarship’ scheme that ‘picks winners’ and is more a marketing tool than anything else. There is no evidence that it adds significant educational value."

School fees year 12: Newington $27,369 - Shore $25,200. Hmmm - guess who is also subsidising the leaders - but it must be worth the extra $ to win all those premierships and be able to piss in each others pockets at the parents' get togethers.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It would seem the issue of "leadership/all-rounder" scholarships is endemic in the Uniting School system. A quote from Stephen Mayne's blog on "makewesleyaccountable.com"

"This group believes that Wesley could well manage to transition off federal funding without any diminution in the quality of teaching. It might mean:

• Abolition of a $3M per annum ‘scholarship’ scheme that ‘picks winners’ and is more a marketing tool than anything else. There is no evidence that it adds significant educational value."

School fees year 12: Newington $27,369 - Shore $25,200. Hmmm - guess who is also subsidising the leaders - but it must be worth the extra $ to win all those premierships and be able to piss in each others pockets at the parents' get togethers.

those shore fees seem about 2 years old

 

[Spieber]

those shore fees seem about 2 years old

Just checked and it is 2013 fees.

 

[Quick Hands]

Just checked and it is 2013 fees.

I'm not saying your figures are wrong, but be careful when comparing school fees at independent schools. Some school's fees cover everything, while at others the fee is a basic charge and things such as excursions are billed separately.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think that could be a factor.
Hence my overall desire to sideline all school competition and develop a properly run, funded and geographically diversified club junior system.
Awarding sports scholarships frustrates my ultimate aim!

How right you are. And what everyone seems to have glossed over is the Sydney 16s team published in post 1615.

From the squad of 23, the names of boys at GPS schools were deleted. There were 13 names deleted - this means that 8 schools (probably less than 8) provided well over half of the boys in that side. Is it any wonder the ARU has to fudge it's figures by double and triple counting players and including one off gala day players as full participants?

 

[Spieber]

I'm not saying your figures are wrong, but be careful when comparing school fees at independent schools. Some school's fees cover everything, while at others the fee is a basic charge and things such as excursions are billed separately.

Absolutely - some schools like Abbotsleigh have a list of ++. Shore, however, apart from excursions are pretty good with the all in cost.

 

[Think About Rugby]

I think the name of this thread should be changed to "Training for Political life 101"
As I look through the last few pages I see many practicing their non answers to questions, answering of different questions, making statements of "fact" without evidence and skill full creation of diversions taking attention away from the real targets.

Maybe it is time to shut the thread down? I am not really in favour of this I still feel the need to vent my anger at the destruction of schoolboy rugby.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I still feel the need to vent my anger at the destruction of schoolboy rugby.

I like this bit.

 

[Quick Hands]

I like this bit.

Need to delete the word 'schoolboy' though. This is destroying junior rugby on so many levels. The increased concentration of rugby talent in a few schools isn't in anyone's interest (including the schools themselves). They are seriously deluding themselves if they think that spending vast sums of money to win a 6 team schoolboy competition is a good use of allegedly scarce educational resources.

EDIT: the once hard fought clashes between GPS & CHS are now one-sided, which also devalues the GPS jersey.

 

[Quick Hands]

skill full creation of diversions taking attention away from the real targets.

It suits the agenda of some that all attention is focussed on Newington. I'm not defending the activities of Newington, but they are one of five.

A large part of the problem is that (with a few exceptions), everyone's against it until players at their school are questioned. Then we get the: uncles, grandfathers, great-uncles all went to the school and they always start in Year 9, change of schools has nothing to do with rugby ability, we wouldn't do such a thing, money was provided by someone "well known to some" but not connected to the school (that's my personal favourite - blame someone else but accept the rugby talent and say "who us"), etc, etc, etc.

 

[Think About Rugby]

Need to delete the word 'schoolboy' though. This is destroying junior rugby on so many levels. The increased concentration of rugby talent in a few schools isn't in anyone's interest (including the schools themselves). They are seriously deluding themselves if they think that spending vast sums of money to win a 6 team schoolboy competition is a good use of allegedly scarce educational resources.

EDIT: the once hard fought clashes between GPS & CHS are now one-sided, which also devalues the GPS jersey.

Yes on reflection I concur

 

[Ted S]

It suits the agenda of some that all attention is focussed on Newington. I'm not defending the activities of Newington, but they are one of five.

A large part of the problem is that (with a few exceptions), everyone's against it until players at their school are questioned. Then we get the: uncles, grandfathers, great-uncles all went to the school and they always start in Year 9, change of schools has nothing to do with rugby ability, we wouldn't do such a thing, money was provided by someone "well known to some" but not connected to the school (that's my personal favourite - blame someone else but accept the rugby talent and say "who us"), etc, etc, etc.

The biggest problem with scholarships I have is that my kids didn't get one ...

I agree with what you are saying but would to also add that when defending ones associated school, people often have more info on the kid that maybe be pertinent and on the other side a lot of people think, oh that kid is a good rugby player so he must be on a scholarship.

 

[Ted S]

Need to delete the word 'schoolboy' though. This is destroying junior rugby on so many levels. The increased concentration of rugby talent in a few schools isn't in anyone's interest (including the schools themselves). They are seriously deluding themselves if they think that spending vast sums of money to win a 6 team schoolboy competition is a good use of allegedly scarce educational resources.

EDIT: the once hard fought clashes between GPS & CHS are now one-sided, which also devalues the GPS jersey.

I am not sure it devalues the GPS jersey, I think it devalues the games between GSP and CHS.
I do agree that it causes a drain on the CHS talent pool, but maybe not to the extent you do. I think there are other factors in play including resourcing and the focus on RL though the public system instead of RU

 

[Quick Hands]

I am not sure it devalues the GPS jersey, I think it devalues the games between GSP and CHS.
I do agree that it causes a drain on the CHS talent pool, but maybe not to the extent you do. I think there are other factors in play including resourcing and the focus on RL though the public system instead of RU

You're right, I don't mean it devalues the boys being picked, it's just that they now have lost one competitive match - there's now only the match against CAS.

I've never said that it is the main reason for the decline of CHS rugby - that process has been in train for 20 years or more and there are many factors at play. The continual drain of rugby talent into the GPS system makes any resurgence of CHS rugby even more difficult and there is also a knock on effect into junior club rugby as players in the older age groups play GPS in preference to village juniors. This in turn makes many of those junior village teams unviable as their best players are taken away and quite often the team folds.

 

[DragonMan]

The biggest problem with scholarships I have is that my kids didn't get one .

I agree with what you are saying but would to also add that when defending ones associated school, people often have more info on the kid that maybe be pertinent and on the other side a lot of people think, oh that kid is a good rugby player so he must be on a scholarship.

Thank you, my point exactly.

 

[Ted S]

You're right, I don't mean it devalues the boys being picked, it's just that they now have lost one competitive match - there's now only the match against CAS.

I've never said that it is the main reason for the decline of CHS rugby - that process has been in train for 20 years or more and there are many factors at play. The continual drain of rugby talent into the GPS system makes any resurgence of CHS rugby even more difficult and there is also a knock on effect into junior club rugby as players in the older age groups play GPS in preference to village juniors. This in turn makes many of those junior village teams unviable as their best players are taken away and quite often the team folds.

Sorry if it came over that way, but I def agree with you.

I for one prefer that the GPS, CAS and other competitions stay, but there needs to be more.
I am also a big advocate of Rugby being about more than just the elite players. There needs to be a continuous pathway (I hate that word) for kids that just love the game to play at an appropriate level.

There is nothing easy about the solution, the hardest thing is that with contact sport you just can't go out and play it. You have to prepare, especially the older you got.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Thank you, my point exactly.

Your point being?

 

[DragonMan]

Your point being?

 

[Tashara]

Okay - I think I better understand both sides of the argument by now (more or less) - but what do you do when you have a talented young child and would like him to enter a GPS school and the only way that would be possible would be via a scholarship?

I don't want to get into a debate about 'non-GPS schools also develop great players' or 'you don't need to go to a GPS school...' I know, I know, I get that. But if my son was offered a scholarship, why wouldn't I take it if I thought it would help him both academically and with his rugby development?

I believe most scholarships these days are not full scholarships (correct me if I'm wrong here), which therefore still requires a financial commitment - great! My niece has a 50% academic scholarship to a academic school on the Gold Coast, so why couldn't my son be given the same chance to receive sports scholarship when that's what he is good at?

I must admit, I totally disagree with 'stacking' in the final years - I couldn't imagine what that would be like as a player who has been looking forward to his final year/s in the first XV to have that taken away.

Anyway, it appears there are many perspectives and points of view on this matter... and that is mine