School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Think About Rugby]

as some type of commodity by the school with no regard for their development or education.

The remaining schools in Sydney GPS all play competitive and close games and with a 2 round comp it will be a very tough competition. I highly doubt there will be any blow out scores. So no overly strong side producing players who will struggle with open rugby post school.[/quote]

 

[Think About Rugby]

It's one thing to be critical of Schools attracting rugby talent, however that may be. Debate it all you want, write to the school council, asks questions of them. If they are ones whom made the decisions to hand out scholarships they are the only ones who can make the decision to stop. Your energy is best direct there.

However it's another thing to carry one that theses boys are treated as some type of commodity by the school with no regard for their development or education.

The remaining schools in Sydney GPS all play competitive and close games and with a 2 round comp it will be a very tough competition. I highly doubt there will be any blow out scores. So no overly strong side producing players who will struggle with open rugby post school.

You have conveniently forgotten a few other GPS schools. Your arms race has had a significant role in the demolition of rugby at Sydney High and Grammar. What about the boys at these schools who can play? They have been sent to the rugby scrap heap. They are the real victims of all this rubbish. They are now seen as soft and useless. Having watched a few High and Grammar games there are a few who would be comfortable in any GPS team in the Ist competition. I suspect the rugby community will never appreciate the potential of these lads. Most will be turned off having been turned away!

Shame on you all in the arms race. Not just New you are all guilty!

 

[TOM BROWN'S]

You have conveniently forgotten a few other GPS schools. Your arms race has had a significant role in the demolition of rugby at Sydney High and Grammar. What about the boys at these schools who can play? They have been sent to the rugby scrap heap. They are the real victims of all this rubbish. They are now seen as soft and useless. Having watched a few High and Grammar games there are a few who would be comfortable in any GPS team in the Ist competition. I suspect the rugby community will never appreciate the potential of these lads. Most will be turned off having been turned away!

Shame on you all in the arms race. Not just New you are all guilty!

Think About Rugby - Take it I should not be seeking advice from yourself on how to pursue getting a rugby scholarship for my boy from any GPS / CAS school!

 

[Spieber]

You have conveniently forgotten a few other GPS schools. Your arms race has had a significant role in the demolition of rugby at Sydney High and Grammar. What about the boys at these schools who can play? They have been sent to the rugby scrap heap. They are the real victims of all this rubbish. They are now seen as soft and useless. Having watched a few High and Grammar games there are a few who would be comfortable in any GPS team in the Ist competition. I suspect the rugby community will never appreciate the potential of these lads. Most will be turned off having been turned away!

Shame on you all in the arms race. Not just New you are all guilty!

Agree with you thoughts on the impact of the arms race on High/Grammar but there was some contributory factors. As an aside (and I am expecting some incoming from the Sports Scholarship cheer squad) in 81 pages and 1600 posts there has yet to be any evidence of Shore participating in the arms race.
PS to help the cheer squad - in the last 12 years I am aware of three top athletes arriving in year 11 - one basketballer, one swimmer, and one rower, the first 2 played significant roles in winning premierships, while the latter has gone onto to be an Aust rep - happy for people to make additions to this list.

 

[Spieber]

Think About Rugby - Take it I should not be seeking advice from yourself on how to pursue getting a rugby scholarship for my boy from any GPS / CAS school!

Simple - get your mates to select them in an U15/16 rep team, preferably one coached by someone connected to an AAGPS school. Although with the proposed points system you may need to aim at U12/13s

 

[Think About Rugby]

Think About Rugby - Take it I should not be seeking advice from yourself on how to pursue getting a rugby scholarship for my boy from any GPS / CAS school!

You are correct, however strangely enough I am not opposed to scholarships. What gets my goat is the schools which happily trade on the GPS name, agree to the GPS rules and then offer scholarships. In many jurisdictions this would be called corrupt conduct!


If everyone was allowed scholarships there would be no issue!

 

[TOM BROWN'S]

Simple - get your mates to select them in an U15/16 rep team, preferably one coached by someone connected to a AAGPS school. Although with the proposed points system you may need to aim at U12/13s

1 out of 3, maybe 2 out of 3

• playing in the U16 schoolboys competition
• will be playing in the Sydney Junior Competition at Concord
• not sure if the coach of either team has the relevant contacts at a AAGPS School

 

[Think About Rugby]

Agree with you thoughts on the impact of the arms race on High/Grammar but there was some contributory factors. As an aside (and I am expecting some incoming from the Sports Scholarship cheer squad) in 81 pages and 1600 posts there has yet to be any evidence of Shore participating in the arms race.

Yes i apologise here I did not intend to suggest Shore was a part of scholarship gang. However, I suspect the location of the school is a help in keeping rugby viable. In some ways Shore is the next most vulnerable potential scalp for the arms race team.

 

[Spieber]

1 out of 3, maybe 2 out of 3

• playing in the U16 schoolboys competition
• will be playing in the Sydney Junior Competition at Concord
• not sure if the coach of either team has the relevant contacts at a AAGPS School

Get him to wear a red crazy wig. Seriously, if he is any good you will be sounded out. Wearing the colours of your preferred school may help. All the best and I hope he is successful.

 

[Spieber]

Yes i apologise here I did not intend to suggest Shore was a part of scholarship gang. However, I suspect the location of the school is a help in keeping rugby viable. In some ways Shore is the next most vulnerable potential scalp for the arms race team.

Correct re location (and large number old boys sons also helps) - having 150 kids turning out in the U13s is a valuable gift.

 

[TOM BROWN'S]

You are correct, however strangely enough I am not opposed to scholarships. What gets my goat is the schools which happily trade on the GPS name, agree to the GPS rules and then offer scholarships. In many jurisdictions this would be called corrupt conduct!


If everyone was allowed scholarships there would be no issue!

I can see the subject has been widely explored (81 pages of it). Notwithstanding the GPS rules, I suppose it comes down to the individual schools ethics.

How important is the GPS crown? I can see that some schools employ professional coaches. This would parallel the structure in the US with College Football.
I suppose with the introduction of a structure almost akin to a professional Super 15 club comes the pressure to perform at the highest level; hence the push to attract the best players albeit through scholarship

 

[Think About Rugby]

I can see the subject has been widely explored (81 pages of it). Notwithstanding the GPS rules, I suppose it comes down to the individual schools ethics.

How important is the GPS crown? I can see that some schools employ professional coaches. This would parallel the structure in the US with College Football.
I suppose with the introduction of a structure almost akin to a professional Super 15 club comes the pressure to perform at the highest level; hence the push to attract the best players albeit through scholarship

And I make the same comment again. Boys that can play in the discarded schools will most likely be lost to rugby. This will further weaken the shaky Sydney club rugby competition. We are witness to a process of dishonesty and corruption which we can see destroying the game. There is no room in heaven for this nonsense.

 

[TOM BROWN'S]

Get him to wear a red crazy wig. Seriously, if he is any good you will be sounded out. Wearing the colours of your preferred school may help. All the best and I hope he is successful.

I like that!

 

[Spieber]

I like that!

Tom, firstly, please give us an update on the appropriate forum as to his team's performance, and secondly just give us a yah or a neh on this forum as to whether the sharks circle for a closer look. Cheers

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Let's talk about Rugby "shopping lists".

There seems to be some disquiet about boys lobbing up at a GPS school in Year 11, following alleged headhunting at National U16 Championships.

If that aspect of interschool movement is such an odious practice, lets go in search of evidence.

Here is last years "shopping list" for the Talent Scouts at the various schools. This list was prepared by George Smith and posted in the 2012 U16 Championship thread.

There have been some claims that the respective coaches and managers "poach" talent from within their young charges.

I have removed the boys already at GPS Schools, as it is highly unlikely that any school is going to try and induce them to change allegience within the AAGPS system.

Sydney U16 Team (Coach = Trinity & Independent, Mgr = Trinity)
1 Jordan Loto'Aniu Bass HS CHS
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Nick Burkett, Barker CAS
9 Steve Kirkby, Barker CAS
10
11 Niko Fiapuleniko, St Pauls CCC
12
13 Lachlan Burland, Oakhill ISA
14 Rory Vevers, St Aloysius CAS
15
16
17 Austin Black, Knox CAS
18 Tonga Tangitau, Parra Marist CCC
19
20 Cruz Leach, Endeavour Sports CHS
21
22
23 Sam Blair, Syd Tech High CHS
late entries due to injury:
Milad Ferris Marist Eastwood- CCC
Angus Gutteridge - CCC
Comment:
Pretty sure that none of these lads have moved to Trinity.
Pretty sure that they are still at the schools listed.
Some wag posted last year that Gutteridge would be in Summer Hill wearing Green. Wrong! He was at St Gregs t'other day trying out for the CCC Open's team.
Ferris and Fiapuleniko are in the 2013 CCC Opens team.
Pretty sure that the U16 coach from Trinity was also 2011 SJRU U15 coach.
Pretty sure that none of the 2011 SJRU U15 squad ended up at Trinity in 2012.


NSW Schools U16 Team (Coach = NEW & CRAN, Mgr = OAK)
1 Aisea Tukipili NBSC Balgowlah CHS
2
3
4 James Lough St Augustines ISA
5
6 Hugh Summerhayes Cranbrook CAS
7 Declan Moore St Andrews ISA
8 Johnnie Walker St Augustines ISA
9
10 Ben Crerar, NBSC, Balgowlah CHS
11
12
13 Anthony McDougall, Cranbrook CAS
14
15
16
17 Conor Davidson, Chevalier ISA
18
19
20 Andrew Vatuvei, Sarah Redfern CHS
21 Joey Fittock, Alstonville CHS
22 Frank Calugay, Alstonville CHS
23
Comment:
While there have been some interschool movements, NEW, Cranbrook or Oakhill have not benefitted.
Tukipili is in the 2013 ISA Open Squad, listed as St Augustines.
Lough, Moore, Walker are in the ISA opens at the same schools.
Crerar and Vatuvei are in the CHS opens at the same schools.
Fittock and Calugay have crossed the border to QLD GPS Schools. Scholarship - possibly. It is apparently not in breach of QLD GPS rules.
Some wag posted last year that Lough would be in at Scots in 2013. Wrong! He is still at Brookvale and is listed in the ISA Open's squad.

NSW Country U16 Team (Coach/Manager not associated with Sydney Schools)
1 Jakob Sedgman St Peter's CC CCC
2 James Wilkinson St Edwards CHS
3 Dallas Flanagan - -
4 Kieran Bonin Holy Spirit College CCC
5 Jason Hovi - -
6 Rohan Kopp Peak Hill Central CHS
7 Oscar Jones Trinity CCC
8 Lapana Vitale - Brisbane Waters SC CHS
9 Brock Hammond MacKillop CC CCC
10 Callum Styles, St John's College CCC
11 Josh Tupuola, Westfield Sports CHS
12 Jake Brumley, Xavier Catholic CCC
13 Raui Poaru, Westfield Sports CHS
14 Adam Hamilton, Hamilton High CHS
15 Tom Fisher, James Sheahan Catholic CCC
16 Dylan Gale, Narrabri High CHS
17 Kurtis Crisante, St John’s CCC
18 Petar Ivic, Belmont HS CHS
19 Chad Sneyd, Terrigal HS CHS
20 Huon Croucher, - -
21 Tom Sawden, Illawarra Sports HS CHS
22 Tom Wicks, St Peter's College -
23 Billy-Jacob O'Connor, Kinross Wolaroi ISA
Comment:
Plenty of country kids (not just rugby playing country kids) move to City Boarding Schools (or Private Boarding) in Senior College due to family budgets only coping with Yr 11/Y12 fees.
A country kid moving to the big smoke is not always the result of financial inducements from the school, old boys association, Rugby supporters association or other entity with some affiliation with the GPS School.
Vitale, Ivic (moved to Hunter SHS), Bonin (moved to Smiths Hill HS) are in 2013 CHS Opens.
It has been posted in the 2013 GPS thread that Styles is playing 15 with Scots.
It has been posted by some wag that a couple of these have crossed the border to Queensland. Can't recall which boys or to what school.


SHOCK HORROR -
One boy has moved from Bally Boys to Brookvale.
Two Northern NSW boys are at QLD schools.
One Country boy is at Scots.
A couple of Country boys are apparently in QLD.
CCC has lost a boy to a non-Sports selective HS.
One boy has moved to a Sports HS.

Conclusions
There is NO linkage whatsoever between Team Management and inter-school movement. - MYTH BUSTED

The overwhelming majority of these kids are still with their 2012 School.

Some of the movement of kids between schools can be explained away due to changing family circumstances. - MYTH PLAUSIBLE

Most of the snouts claiming to have inside knowledge of scholarships and future school movements have been wrong. - MYTH BUSTED.
These are kids we are talking about, and kids read Gaggerland posts. Unless there is corroboration about a kid moving school then it would be best to not mention names unless you are 100% sure of the facts. These inside scoops can generate stress in families particularly if they are not factual.
.
The National U16 Championships is hardly the AAGPS Meat Market that many are suggesting. - MYTH BUSTED.

With so few inter-school movements after the 2012 Market closed, the large number of clipboard carrying persons at Riverview last year suggests that they were either Gaggerland match reporters or they may have simply brought some work from the office to do in the down time when their boy wasn't playing footy.

Brought to you by Mythbusters.

 

[DragonMan]

You have conveniently forgotten a few other GPS schools. Your arms race has had a significant role in the demolition of rugby at Sydney High and Grammar. What about the boys at these schools who can play? They have been sent to the rugby scrap heap. They are the real victims of all this rubbish. They are now seen as soft and useless. Having watched a few High and Grammar games there are a few who would be comfortable in any GPS team in the Ist competition. I suspect the rugby community will never appreciate the potential of these lads. Most will be turned off having been turned away!

Shame on you all in the arms race. Not just New you are all guilty!

Not quite as simple as that re High. As for Grammar, as far as I understand (my whole street went to Grammar as did all our family friends) ever since Mackerras there has been a real 'de-emphasis 'on sport as a whole in any event. I remember my friend at Grammar telling me that in the 8os they 'selected' their GPS atheltics team by a simple sign which read "Would you like to be a GPS athelete?'

http://ninglun.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/winning-is-nice-but-it-isnt-everything/

 

[Runner]

For a game played in heaven there would seem to be a lot of sinners who will thus never see a game played there.

Over the various threads we have scholarships with no real conclusion in sight.

At the Waratah Shield site we have, rightly, lamentations about how little publicity there is for the only fixture that can include teams from all associations and government schools.

ISA team selections are considered to have grey areas of suspicion.

ETC

While the AFL visits schools regularly, promotes junior teams, is now reported 1st on Fox sports with longer coverage and a variety of CAS and GPS schools have or are looking at the game.

I am saddened and feel I am in Rome with Nero as he is about to play.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Runner, we have additional threads for Nero's violin concerto as well.

There are the Ideas for Australian Rugby, AFL at the Ramparts, An Ideal Junior Rugby competition, Grass Roots Think Tank, National Junior Competition, etc threads as well.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Let's talk about Rugby "shopping lists".

There seems to be some disquiet about boys lobbing up at a GPS school in Year 11, following alleged headhunting at National U16 Championships.

If that aspect of interschool movement is such an odious practice, lets go in search of evidence.

Here is last years "shopping list" for the Talent Scouts at the various schools. This list was prepared by George Smith and posted in the 2012 U16 Championship thread.

There have been some claims that the respective coaches and managers "poach" talent from within their young charges.

I have removed the boys already at GPS Schools, as it is highly unlikely that any school is going to try and induce them to change allegience within the AAGPS system.

Sydney U16 Team (Coach = Trinity & Independent, Mgr = Trinity)
1 Jordan Loto'Aniu Bass HS CHS
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Nick Burkett, Barker CAS
9 Steve Kirkby, Barker CAS
10
11 Niko Fiapuleniko, St Pauls CCC
12
13 Lachlan Burland, Oakhill ISA
14 Rory Vevers, St Aloysius CAS
15
16
17 Austin Black, Knox CAS
18 Tonga Tangitau, Parra Marist CCC
19
20 Cruz Leach, Endeavour Sports CHS
21
22
23 Sam Blair, Syd Tech High CHS
late entries due to injury:
Milad Ferris Marist Eastwood- CCC
Angus Gutteridge - CCC
Comment:
Pretty sure that none of these lads have moved to Trinity.
Pretty sure that they are still at the schools listed.
Some wag posted last year that Gutteridge would be in Summer Hill wearing Green. Wrong! He was at St Gregs t'other day trying out for the CCC Open's team.
Ferris and Fiapuleniko are in the 2013 CCC Opens team.
Pretty sure that the U16 coach from Trinity was also 2011 SJRU U15 coach.
Pretty sure that none of the 2011 SJRU U15 squad ended up at Trinity in 2012.


NSW Schools U16 Team (Coach = NEW & CRAN, Mgr = OAK)
1 Aisea Tukipili NBSC Balgowlah CHS
2
3
4 James Lough St Augustines ISA
5
6 Hugh Summerhayes Cranbrook CAS
7 Declan Moore St Andrews ISA
8 Johnnie Walker St Augustines ISA
9
10 Ben Crerar, NBSC, Balgowlah CHS
11
12
13 Anthony McDougall, Cranbrook CAS
14
15
16
17 Conor Davidson, Chevalier ISA
18
19
20 Andrew Vatuvei, Sarah Redfern CHS
21 Joey Fittock, Alstonville CHS
22 Frank Calugay, Alstonville CHS
23
Comment:
While there have been some interschool movements, NEW, Cranbrook or Oakhill have not benefitted.
Tukipili is in the 2013 ISA Open Squad, listed as St Augustines.
Lough, Moore, Walker are in the ISA opens at the same schools.
Crerar and Vatuvei are in the CHS opens at the same schools.
Fittock and Calugay have crossed the border to QLD GPS Schools. Scholarship - possibly. It is apparently not in breach of QLD GPS rules.
Some wag posted last year that Lough would be in at Scots in 2013. Wrong! He is still at Brookvale and is listed in the ISA Open's squad.

NSW Country U16 Team (Coach/Manager not associated with Sydney Schools)
1 Jakob Sedgman St Peter's CC CCC
2 James Wilkinson St Edwards CHS
3 Dallas Flanagan - -
4 Kieran Bonin Holy Spirit College CCC
5 Jason Hovi - -
6 Rohan Kopp Peak Hill Central CHS
7 Oscar Jones Trinity CCC
8 Lapana Vitale - Brisbane Waters SC CHS
9 Brock Hammond MacKillop CC CCC
10 Callum Styles, St John's College CCC
11 Josh Tupuola, Westfield Sports CHS
12 Jake Brumley, Xavier Catholic CCC
13 Raui Poaru, Westfield Sports CHS
14 Adam Hamilton, Hamilton High CHS
15 Tom Fisher, James Sheahan Catholic CCC
16 Dylan Gale, Narrabri High CHS
17 Kurtis Crisante, St John’s CCC
18 Petar Ivic, Belmont HS CHS
19 Chad Sneyd, Terrigal HS CHS
20 Huon Croucher, - -
21 Tom Sawden, Illawarra Sports HS CHS
22 Tom Wicks, St Peter's College -
23 Billy-Jacob O'Connor, Kinross Wolaroi ISA
Comment:
Plenty of country kids (not just rugby playing country kids) move to City Boarding Schools (or Private Boarding) in Senior College due to family budgets only coping with Yr 11/Y12 fees.
A country kid moving to the big smoke is not always the result of financial inducements from the school, old boys association, Rugby supporters association or other entity with some affiliation with the GPS School.
Vitale, Ivic (moved to Hunter SHS), Bonin (moved to Smiths Hill HS) are in 2013 CHS Opens.
It has been posted in the 2013 GPS thread that Styles is playing 15 with Scots.
It has been posted by some wag that a couple of these have crossed the border to Queensland. Can't recall which boys or to what school.


SHOCK HORROR -
One boy has moved from Bally Boys to Brookvale.
Two Northern NSW boys are at QLD schools.
One Country boy is at Scots.
A couple of Country boys are apparently in QLD.
CCC has lost a boy to a non-Sports selective HS.
One boy has moved to a Sports HS.

Conclusions
There is NO linkage whatsoever between Team Management and inter-school movement. - MYTH BUSTED

The overwhelming majority of these kids are still with their 2012 School.

Some of the movement of kids between schools can be explained away due to changing family circumstances. - MYTH PLAUSIBLE

Most of the snouts claiming to have inside knowledge of scholarships and future school movements have been wrong. - MYTH BUSTED.
These are kids we are talking about, and kids read Gaggerland posts. Unless there is corroboration about a kid moving school then it would be best to not mention names unless you are 100% sure of the facts. These inside scoops can generate stress in families particularly if they are not factual.
.
The National U16 Championships is hardly the AAGPS Meat Market that many are suggesting. - MYTH BUSTED.

With so few inter-school movements after the 2012 Market closed, the large number of clipboard carrying persons at Riverview last year suggests that they were either Gaggerland match reporters or they may have simply brought some work from the office to do in the down time when their boy wasn't playing footy.

Brought to you by Mythbusters.

Wrong: you need to go back to 2011 to see who is bobbing up in 1st XV's this year and where they were when they were under 16.
That information is available in this thread - and you know it.

 

[sootyanddave]

Let's talk about Rugby "shopping lists".

There seems to be some disquiet about boys lobbing up at a GPS school in Year 11, following alleged headhunting at National U16 Championships.

Don't want to prick your balloon,but I know 2 players listed in your post plus 2 others you don't mention, that were not only approached, but I would almost say pressured in a couple of these cases,into moving Schools.
No it wasn't the School that is getting the most criticism in this thread.And no, their teachers were not involved in the representative teams.
None of them chose to move,that doesn't mean it never happened.