School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Tim]

Your time starts now..

I could go on all day but you will just have to trust me on this I don't believe it is constructive to dwell upon. Although I do hear times are not getting easier and school fees are going up... starting your child later in life at a GPS school is not uncommon... even for families of old boys and for those families with talented young men... food for thought...

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[Inside Shoulder]

I could go on all day but you will just have to trust me on this I don't believe it is constructive to dwell upon. Although I do hear times are not getting easier and school fees are going up. starting your child later in life at a GPS school is not uncommon. even for families of old boys and for those families with talented young men. food for thought.

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Thats good enough for me.
CTPE - you're barking up the wrong tree.
A series of remarkable coincidences.

 

[lincoln]

Thats good enough for me.
CTPE - you're barking up the wrong tree.
A series of remarkable coincidences.

Reasonable probability of some enhancement but cannot discount that Dads believe their best chance to be parent of schoolboy legends is by sending them to Joeys. Surprised U14s coming into Year 9 - unless super talented will only have 1 year in opens.

 

[Quick Hands]

Thats good enough for me.
CTPE - you're barking up the wrong tree.
A series of remarkable coincidences.

It's amazing how these remarkable co-incidences only afflict Joeys and Riverview. We all know that if rugby players start at any other school after Year 7 they must be on a scholarship/bursary.

 

[Quick Hands]

Reasonable probability of some enhancement but cannot discount that Dads believe their best chance to be parent of schoolboy legends is by sending them to Joeys.

Wouldn't the same logic apply to Newington, Scots & Kings?

 

[lincoln]

Wouldn't the same logic apply to Newington, Scots & Kings?

Roman Catholics perhaps?

 

[Gristlechewer]

Thank you so much QH for opening the gate for me

Nothing has got up my nose more on this thread than the "holier than thou" fluff from Joeys acolytes (and to a lesser extent those from Riverview) who profer that their schools don't offer sporting scholarships. In saying that I have never stated in any post that the school I support doesn't do it.

As I have stated previously, I think that the only school not doing it (in the absence of Grammar and High in the comp) is Shore and perhaps a more forensic investigation may even refute this statement!!

I think you may want to re read some of your 950+ posts before making this statement CTPE.

 

[CTPE]

I think you may want to re read some of your 950+ posts before making this statement CTPE.

Nominate the posts G.

 

[random2]

Wouldn't the same logic apply to Newington, Scots & Kings?

I think it's safe to assume that the first school for the majority of rugby fans that comes to mind when they hear 'words schoolboy legend' is Joeys. Most parents who haven't had much to do with the GPS over the last 5 years would probably also assume Joeys would be the best chance for their sons to shine on the paddock. Plus if they sent there son to Newington or Scots Malama Laketi and his cousins will probably take their spot in 1s by year 12 anyway #banter.

 

[Gristlechewer]

Nominate the posts G.

Damn... There goes my lunch hour again. I should have tagged yesterday

 

[Quick Hands]

I think it's safe to assume that the first school for the majority of rugby fans that comes to mind when they hear 'words schoolboy legend' is Joeys. Most parents who haven't had much to do with the GPS over the last 5 years would probably also assume Joeys would be the best chance for their sons to shine on the paddock. Plus if they sent there son to Newington or Scots Malama Laketi and his cousins will probably take their spot in 1s by year 12 anyway #banter.

Lot of assumptions there. One would think that a parent who is choosing schools on the basis of their sons rugby would have some idea "what has happened in the last 5 years" or if they hadn't had much to do with GPS over the last 30 years, they might send little Johnny to Grammar.

From what I hear, anyone who starts in Year 7 at New, Scots, Kings, Joeys or Riverview could have "their spot taken by..." before Year 12, by some one who has started after that time (for whatever reason) . Yes even Joeys, as the post from Inside Shoulder shows. (Although I'm not sure that anyone "owns" a spot in the first place)

 

[Inside Shoulder]

or if they hadn't had much to do with GPS over the last 30 years, they might send little Johnny to Grammar.

Got to pass the entrance exam - in which there is no opportunity to demonstrate any rugby skills

 

[Quick Hands]

Got to pass the entrance exam - in which there is no opportunity to demonstrate any rugby skills

Out of interest, is school bound to follow the results of the entrance test completely, or is there discretion to admit appropriate students based on interview and references etc.? (provided of course their results were above a certain level in said entrance test)

Being an independent school, I'd have thought that the Headmaster would have some discretion.

 

[lincoln]

From what I hear, anyone who starts in Year 7 at New, Scots, Kings, Joeys or Riverview could have "their spot taken by." before Year 12, by some one who has started after that time (for whatever reason) . Yes even Joeys, as the post from Inside Shoulder shows. (Although I'm not sure that anyone "owns" a spot in the first place)

There are some qualitative issues separating Joeys. Happy to be corrected but it is my understanding they have big intakes in Years 9 & 11 - not sure of exact numbers but from roughly 110-120 to 140-150 to 180-190, which is different to the other GPS schools that have relatively standard numbers throughout. Hence the "they weren't there in year 7 so must be imports" argument is a little harsh. The correlation between 13As and 1stXV is unlikely to anywhere near as high as it is at Shore.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Out of interest, is school bound to follow the results of the entrance test completely, or is there discretion to admit appropriate students based on interview and references etc.? (provided of course their results were above a certain level in said entrance test)

Being an independent school, I'd have thought that the Headmaster would have some discretion.

It entirely discretionary, and the master in charge of admissions tells me that he has been looking for more well rounded students, he being an old SBHS boy and valuing the idea of rugby and rowing, in particular.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There are some qualitative issues separating Joeys. Happy to be corrected but it is my understanding they have big intakes in Years 9 & 11 - not sure of exact numbers but from roughly 110-120 to 140-150 to 180-190, which is different to the other GPS schools that have relatively standard numbers throughout. Hence the "they weren't there in year 7 so must be imports" argument is a little harsh. The correlation between 13As and 1stXV is unlikely to anywhere near as high as it is at Shore.

The funny thing is that my source for this is an SJC parent with an impeccable rugby pedigree

 

[random2]

There are some qualitative issues separating Joeys. Happy to be corrected but it is my understanding they have big intakes in Years 9 & 11 - not sure of exact numbers but from roughly 110-120 to 140-150 to 180-190, which is different to the other GPS schools that have relatively standard numbers throughout. Hence the "they weren't there in year 7 so must be imports" argument is a little harsh. The correlation between 13As and 1stXV is unlikely to anywhere near as high as it is at Shore.

That's correct. In my year we've gone from 140 in year 7 to 205 in year 11, most of those new boys came in year 9 & 10, same thing has happened in year 12. In my year, 4 of those 60 played games in the 16As, while 6 from year 12 will probably be in 1s this year. 9/10 of those boys I know are not imports, the other one very well could be. As for the 2 14s boys, I don't know their stories so I can't comment, but feel free to continue searching Joeys, Riverview and Shore for imports to make the other schools not look as bad.

 

[Quick Hands]

There are some qualitative issues separating Joeys. Happy to be corrected but it is my understanding they have big intakes in Years 9 & 11 - not sure of exact numbers but from roughly 110-120 to 140-150 to 180-190, which is different to the other GPS schools that have relatively standard numbers throughout. Hence the "they weren't there in year 7 so must be imports" argument is a little harsh. The correlation between 13As and 1stXV is unlikely to anywhere near as high as it is at Shore.

You'll note that I never said this in my post. It was asserted in post #1389 on this page by Random2, that if you sent your son to Newington or Scots, his spot would be taken by a late starter before Year 12. I pointed out that "for whatever reason" the same could be said for Kings, Joeys and Riverview. Your post and Random2 in post #1397 seem to confirm this reality.

I have nothing against Joeys, in fact I admire very much their approach to education in general and rugby in particular. I just find it unbelievable that there are people who refuse to believe even the possibilty that some boys who are good at rugby are induced through some sort of financial assistance to go there. I have spoken to recent old boys and parents of recent old boys and they have told me it happens.

 

[Tim]

Question to the forum...What is the definition of a scholarship or to be more exact an 'import'? I am or was under the impression that an import is a student who was openly 'sourced' or approached by a school to attend that particular institution due to their talent? If a prospective student 'approaches' the school with a wish to attend yet needs financial assistance or whatever it may be... and is or isn't for that matter good at rugby etc... i'm not sure I would call that student an import... actually whatever the situation may be, if a talent appeared on a schools door step wishing to attend, I wouldn't consider them an import even if technically they may have received a scholarship of some type... my reasoning once again is on the basis that the school did not source the student.... thoughts?

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[Quick Hands]

Question to the forum.What is the definition of a scholarship or to be more exact an 'import'? I am or was under the impression that an import is a student who was openly 'sourced' or approached by a school to attend that particular institution due to their talent? If a prospective student 'approaches' the school with a wish to attend yet needs financial assistance or whatever it may be. and is or isn't for that matter good at rugby etc. i'm not sure I would call that student an import. actually whatever the situation may be, if a talent appeared on a schools door step wishing to attend, I wouldn't consider them an import even if technically they may have received a scholarship of some type. my reasoning once again is on the basis that the school did not source the student.. thoughts?

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My understanding is that it doesn't matter who made the approach, just whether or not the financial assistance/bursary/scholarship/inducement is based on sporting ability. My personal opinion is that 5 schools out of the 8 are doing so - some probably to a greater degree than others and some are probably more subtle than others.

The relevent section of the AAGPS code of practice reads:

In the light of these principles, the GPS Headmasters affirm the following code of practice:

No inducements such as sporting scholarships, whether direct, disguised, or at arm's length, shall be offered by any member school. Financial assistance to talented sportsmen shall not form part of the enrolment strategy of any member school.

Source AAGPS website​