School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

The mods got it, shame that.

send it privately

 

[kbw]

I am going to add some interesting thoughts here, I would have loved to have attended one of the GPS schools. I went through the public system in Newcastle, but my parents could not afford it nor probably thought about scholarhsips ( I was quick and a decent size, but thats another story). But I certainly don't begrudge the upbringing I had.
My kids attend private schools, the boys now GPS but were CAS, There are many benefits (or my bank thinks so ).
I have seen a lot of honour come out of the systems in competition and I have to say I would glady send my kids to Joeys if the occasion arose.

(this bit maybe deleted if deemed inappropriate)
Althought there are only 2 schools (one CAS, one GPS) I could not send my boys to (even on scholarships) as in my experience their philosophies and stds ingrained in the boys are just not decent, "K"

 

[JM-P]

Someone with influence needs to grab hold of young Kirk Steven Tuiavii. He is headed to mungoland otherwise. This will be an awful loss to our game and to lose such an obvious talent from a rugby bloodline to the "less thoughtful" version of the game.

 

[random2]

Someone with influence needs to grab hold of young Kirk Steven Tuiavii. He is headed to mungoland otherwise. This will be an awful loss to our game and to lose such an obvious talent from a rugby bloodline to the "less thoughtful" version of the game.

Kirks already lost, has been playing league his whole life and only recently started in union. Already signed with the Bulldogs for Harold Matts and SG Ball.

 

[Tight head Lion]

UPDATE from Scots College.

I have been told by two different sources (One at TSC another on the Northern Beaches) that a number of St Augustines year 10-11 students were offered places at TSC (fee "support" provided again by the TSC rugby support group), in particular a number of 16A rugby players who will join the other St Augustines boys who are there in the basketball program. It is of note that Augustines refused to play TSC in the final of a knock out competition as a pre- Sydney Kings game match. They protested they could not take the court against a starting 5 that had three Augustines boys in the line up. Is anyone able to comment on this developement?

 

[GPSrow]

interesting to note: scholarships for new end up biting their own school's arses. looking at the current 1st XV team, there will only be 1 maybe 2 newington boys in that team that have started in year 7! As an old boy of the school, i should make it clear that this shouldn't be repeated, if new is looking for a stepping-stone approach into being the best, they have to produce and grow their best from the ground (13s up).

Sorry to blow up about my own school, but the 2nds/3rds competition teams for Newington will be the original teams e.g. most of the boys starting in year 7 and not on scholarship, regardless of that fact, the 1st team has a great team and is doing wonders for the school in the short term but will it help in the long term??

 

[angrydog]

UPDATE from Scots College.

I have been told by two different sources (One at TSC another on the Northern Beaches) that a number of St Augustines year 10-11 students were offered places at TSC (fee "support" provided again by the TSC rugby support group), in particular a number of 16A rugby players who will join the other St Augustines boys who are there in the basketball program. It is of note that Augustines refused to play TSC in the final of a knock out competition as a pre- Sydney Kings game match. They protested they could not take the court against a starting 5 that had three Augustines boys in the line up. Is anyone able to comment on this developement?

Are Augustines known to be in the business of 'fee suport'? My mail is they are, so I guess it is possible they are just being trumped by a more prestigious school. Either way, this is just another example of how disgusting 'fee support' is when associated with sports.

The next post be GPSrow is another one again. I recently spoke with a fella from Newington about this topic. He is in their u15's this year and I was shocked by how accepting he was of imports etc. He didnt seem to care that such activity may possibly cost him a 1stXV spot eventually. It was actually quite bizzare and made me think that maybe it's just olf people like me who actually care about this, maybe the students themselves arent too bothered. Can anybody comment if this is the case, or was this kid an isolated case of someone who may be affected but isnt really bothered?

 

[Freddo Frog]

My impression about imports is that parents get more worked up by it than the boys do. My experience is the same as yours Angrydog, the boys (including those who would be under consideration for places in firsts) just accept that it is what it is.

 

[Braveheart81]

The parents probably get worked up about it because they are effectively subsidising the scholarships.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

My impression about imports is that parents get more worked up by it than the boys do. My experience is the same as yours Angrydog, the boys (including those who would be under consideration for places in firsts) just accept that it is what it is.

Possibly because they know the kids and see them as (I assume) pretty normal kids.
Its a parent's right, if not duty, to seek to advance the interests of his or her child - particularly when the potentially harmful process seems to be for the benefit of the Old Boys of the school, who are adults.

 

[CTPE]

Possibly because they know the kids and see them as (I assume) pretty normal kids.
Its a parent's right, if not duty, to seek to advance the interests of his or her child - particularly when the
potentially harmful process seems to be for the benefit of the Old Boys of the school, who are adults.

I don't know that it's so much for the benefit of the Old Boys but rather for a school positioning itself from a marketing position - ie successful in sport as well as the other things the school's non-scholarship cohort otherwise provide. Nothing like being able to exclaim that we are equally good at rugby, rowing and tennis as we are in debating, music and academia.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

exclaim that we are equally good at rugby, rowing and tennis as we are in debating, music and academia.

which school can do that?
To my observation and as discussed the board/councils of these schools are overloaded with old boys. The old boys I know are the first to lament the school's decline on the rugby field - they often send their sons to the schools: its a virtuous circle.

 

[Quick Hands]

interesting to note: scholarships for new end up biting their own school's arses. looking at the current 1st XV team, there will only be 1 maybe 2 newington boys in that team that have started in year 7! As an old boy of the school, i should make it clear that this shouldn't be repeated, if new is looking for a stepping-stone approach into being the best, they have to produce and grow their best from the ground (13s up).

Sorry to blow up about my own school, but the 2nds/3rds competition teams for Newington will be the original teams e.g. most of the boys starting in year 7 and not on scholarship, regardless of that fact, the 1st team has a great team and is doing wonders for the school in the short term but will it help in the long term??

I agree, I can't see how these schools (not just New) are advantaged long-term by this process.

You're right when you say that the best (and cheapest) way of building a programme is to start from 13s.

I was shown a copy of the Newington magazine for Autumn 2012 in which the Headmaster writes "The sesquicentenary celebrations will not ... be about how many GPS premierships we can win..."

Which, particularly inview of your observations of the 2013 1st XV seems incongruous.

The Headmaster of Shore gives a lengthy explanation as to why Shore doesn't participate in what we call the GPS arms race. 1 paragraph reads:
The reasoning is based upon three principles: the educational nature of games rather than as a means of promotion of the school; the equity issues that arise for other boys and the cost to other parents of subsidising sportsmen.

He also speaks of a number of other matters: follow link for full article.
http://www.shore.nsw.edu.au/enrolment/scholarships/scholarships-general-info

It's hard to argue with his position, particularly when it's commonly conceded that Shore does not engage in the practice.

It will only take 1 more school to fall for the whole competition to become unviable. It used to be called Mutually Assured Destruction during the Cold War. The nature of the competition as being the 15 best from each school playing each other seems to have been lost on some.

The current activities at TSC and NC seem to have followed new Headmaster/Principal appointments at each school in recent times.

 

[Quick Hands]

UPDATE from Scots College.

I have been told by two different sources (One at TSC another on the Northern Beaches) that a number of St Augustines year 10-11 students were offered places at TSC (fee "support" provided again by the TSC rugby support group), in particular a number of 16A rugby players who will join the other St Augustines boys who are there in the basketball program. It is of note that Augustines refused to play TSC in the final of a knock out competition as a pre- Sydney Kings game match. They protested they could not take the court against a starting 5 that had three Augustines boys in the line up. Is anyone able to comment on this developement?

I've spoken to a few people on the Northern Beaches about this and they believe that at least a few boys were offered spots at TSC, but they're not sure if any have accepted or not. Augustines are quite strong in those age groups and they have many boys in the NGS/JGS programmes (which were held at Scots co-incidentally). I'm not sure about the basketball part of it, as I'm told that Augustines went to Melbourne just before Christmas for the Aust Schools Basketball champs, so not sure they would have been able to do that if they'd refused to play in a final up here.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It will only take 1 more school to fall for the whole competition to become unviable. It used to be called Mutually Assured Destruction during the Cold War. The nature of the competition as being the 15 best from each school playing each other seems to have been lost on some.

The current activities at TSC and NC seem to have followed new Headmaster/Principal appointments at each school in recent times.

On my assessment of it Shore is that school.
It's a quite pointed jab at the schools seen to be flouting the understanding, and a well explained rationale.




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[Quick Hands]

On my assessment of it Shore is that school.
It's a quite pointed jab at the schools seen to be flouting the understanding, and a well explained rationale.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The best explanation I've seen, given great weight by the fact that he's walking the walk as well as talking the talk.

When you go to some school websites and you see a line like (insert name of school) does not offer sporting scholarships), I feel like throwing something at the screen. How these guys look at other Headmasters at post match functions without dying of shame mystifies me.

Incidentially, I wonder what "golden age" of rugby some old boys hark back to. As the table below indicates, with the exception of Grammar in the 1920s, none of these 6 schools have ever experienced a rugby golden age which needs to be relived through sporting scholarhips.

NEWINGTON (9)1896, 1900, 1911-12, 1953, 1961*, 1979, 2010, 2012
SCOTS (6)
1948*-49*, 1959, 1978*, 1987, 1993
SHORE (8)
1908-09, 1933*, 1969, 1970*, 1977*, 1998*, 2006*
ST IGNATIUS (9)
1964, 1972*, 1975, 1980, 1996, 2003, 2006*, 2008*-09*, 2011
GRAMMAR (14)1897-98-99, 1915-16, 1919-20-21-22, 1924*, 1929, 1949*, 1966-67HIGH (5)1946*, 1963, 1971-72*73

 

[en_force_er]

My experience with imports is that, other than the handful of boys who miss 1st team spots who may dislike scholarships, students love them.

Students like watching winning teams, they like talking about classmates who will be the next big thing, and to some extent many parents do too. The issue lies in the schools which have ridiculous amounts of scholarships. There's one school in Victoria that at one point had half the year 12 level on at minimum a half scholarship, a majority of those for at least partly sporting reasons.

This thread hates scholarships but I think you'd find outside of the old guard and students/parents who miss out on 1st team spots people don't mind them.

 

[Quick Hands]

My experience with imports is that, other than the handful of boys who miss 1st team spots who may dislike scholarships, students love them.

Students like watching winning teams, they like talking about classmates who will be the next big thing, and to some extent many parents do too. The issue lies in the schools which have ridiculous amounts of scholarships. There's one school in Victoria that at one point had half the year 12 level on at minimum a half scholarship, a majority of those for at least partly sporting reasons.

This thread hates scholarships but I think you'd find outside of the old guard and students/parents who miss out on 1st team spots people don't mind them.

I suspect there are a wide range of views (even on this thread). I'm not sure what the schools in Melbourne say, but if you go to the website of every GPS school in Sydney, you'll find a sentence to the effect "we do not offer sporting scholarships". Around half of the GPS schools follow this and about half don't and in at least 3 cases are quite blatant about it.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem if there were one or two in each team and they were given sparingly, but at the moment the effect is that it has distorted the nature of the competition. This is because some schools are using it to assemble a team, rather than add to a team.

I think that you'll find some of the "old guard" rather than hating it are actually pushing it, apparently to relive some golden age which doesn't exist. From what I've read, most of the people who disagree with it hold the view that school sport should be a competition where each of the schools develop their teams over a 6 year period and whoever does this the best wins.

I think that the novelty of talking about winning teams after decades without winning will wear off, if the teams don't really represent the student body. Unsurprisingly, many students, parents and teachers aren't that concerned about rugby unless they are involved (same goes for all other sports/activities at schools).

Out of all GPS sports, it is rugby and rugby alone in which 2 of the 8 schools have withdrawn because they just can't compete. That to me provides the starkest evidence that things are out of balance.

 

[Braveheart81]

Out of all GPS sports, it is rugby and rugby alone in which 2 of the 8 schools have withdrawn because they just can't compete. That to me provides the starkest evidence that things are out of balance.

Sydney High at least are still being flogged at cricket. I'm not sure about other sports. I guess the difference is that getting flogged on a rugby field can not just be physically intimidating, it can be dangerous.

Getting flogged in other sports, whilst embarrassing is far less dangerous.

 

[Quick Hands]

Sydney High at least are still being flogged at cricket. I'm not sure about other sports. I guess the difference is that getting flogged on a rugby field can not just be physically intimidating, it can be dangerous.

Getting flogged in other sports, whilst embarrassing is far less dangerous.

A quick trip to the SBHS website (cricket results) indicate that they have suffered some heavy defeats, but have also won a couple of matches in 1sts, 16A, 15A & 14A.

Basketball National schools champions 2010, State Champions 2011.

Other sports seem to compete ok, but as you say rugby is the only sport where one's physical safety is at risk from one sided matches.

We can be fairly certain that there is noone at High on a sporting scholarship.