School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Quick Hands]

Self regulation hasn't worked, so a possible solution would be to impose a restriction on boys who could be selected in any GPS 1st grade team (all sports not just rugby).

For teams with 10 or more players - rugby, soccer & cricket, no more than 2 boys may be on the field who started after Year 8.

For teams with less than 10 players - water polo, rowing & basketball etc, maximum of 1 boy who started after year 8.

Year of commencement at the school to be published in programme.

The only exemptions: families relocated from overseas or interstate or the boy was on the waiting list before Year 7 and is next up to fill a casual vacancy.

Exemptions need individual approval at a meeting of GPS convenors and be accompanied by documentary evidence to support the claim for exemption.

Wouldn't catch everyone, but would make it much more difficult and expensive for the schools.

 

[lincoln]

Yes, but School Councils/Boards of Governors etc have no input into the day to day running of the schools. Their role is to set very broad goals and principles, ensure that legal requirements are being met, appoint senior staff and to ensure that the school is financially viable.

QH, a mate of mine is a long term member of one of the offending school's council (and is an OB). He has been actively agitating for over 10 years now for his school to be where it is today with so many gifted and talented sportsmen across a range of sports - the councils are up to their necks in this shit.

 

[GPSrow]

My heart bleeds for the poor high achievers winning sporting premierships and achieving high ATARs at the exclusive private schools of Sydney.

choose your words.....my brother knew two old boys one being a 1st XV player, 1sts basketball, a member of the school's orchestra, Senior Prefect for the school and was in the top 10 for Modern History in the State.

Picture perfect role model for the school and for the younger boys. he later told the school at the leaving assembly at he suffered severe depression throughout year 12 and put a total spin on what a 'high achiever' would go through.

Another boy, who was senior prefect of the school, ended his own life a year after school, for reasons that i wouldn't know of but his ongoing pressure to preform at school would've had to do with it

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Shit happens.


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[Quick Hands]

QH, a mate of mine is a long term member of one of the offending school's council (and is an OB). He has been actively agitating for over 10 years now for his school to be where it is today with so many gifted and talented sportsmen across a range of sports - the councils are up to their necks in this shit.

I accept your word on that and if that is so then in my humble opinion he's not really doing the right thing by his school or the bulk of the boys who go there. We need to let these kids be kids. I wonder what he thinks the benefit is for his school to import talented sportsmen, who have no particular affinity for the school. I assume that he is acting for the best of motives, but it doesn't seem to me to be what school sport is all about, whether that is GPS, CAS or any other type of school.

You'd think the fact that the GPS sportsmasters have had to radically restructure the rugby competition would have alarm bells ringing for most intelligent people.

I apologise if I have been too naive and trusting of those put in a position to safeguard standards and mores.

 

[Quick Hands]

choose your words...my brother knew two old boys one being a 1st XV player, 1sts basketball, a member of the school's orchestra, Senior Prefect for the school and was in the top 10 for Modern History in the State.

Picture perfect role model for the school and for the younger boys. he later told the school at the leaving assembly at he suffered severe depression throughout year 12 and put a total spin on what a 'high achiever' would go through.

Another boy, who was senior prefect of the school, ended his own life a year after school, for reasons that i wouldn't know of but his ongoing pressure to preform at school would've had to do with it

The pressure placed on adolescents these days is ridiculous. I'm glad I grew up when I did. We were expeted to do our best, but not to be the best at everything we did. It's just wrong and the people supposed to be looking out for these kids just aren't doing it. Where have all these unrealistic expectations originated?

 

[Braveheart81]

choose your words...my brother knew two old boys one being a 1st XV player, 1sts basketball, a member of the school's orchestra, Senior Prefect for the school and was in the top 10 for Modern History in the State.

Picture perfect role model for the school and for the younger boys. he later told the school at the leaving assembly at he suffered severe depression throughout year 12 and put a total spin on what a 'high achiever' would go through.

Another boy, who was senior prefect of the school, ended his own life a year after school, for reasons that i wouldn't know of but his ongoing pressure to preform at school would've had to do with it

Depression doesn't discriminate between high achievers and low achievers. I completely agree that pressure placed on an individual both by the individual and by others exacerbates depression. It isn't just high achievers who feel pressure or are placed under it though.

I don't think it is any more sad that a high achiever suffers from depression than someone who isn't a high achiever.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Depression doesn't discriminate between high achievers and low achievers. I completely agree that pressure placed on an individual both by the individual and by others exacerbates depression. It isn't just high achievers who feel pressure or are placed under it though.

I don't think it is any more sad that a high achiever suffers from depression than someone who isn't a high achiever.

Nor has it got anything to do with where you go to school or who pays your school fees.


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[rugbyscribe]

I dont know if this one has been discussed as yet, but here goes...A VERY reliable and accurate source has informed me that two boys who were enrolled to attend St Gregs Campbelltown in Year 11 for 2013 as fee paying boarders have withdrawn their enrolments and forfieted their enrolment fees following offers from Kings of full scholarships for yr 11 and 12. Both boys are said to be very talented footballers who were keen to be part of Gregs expanding rugby program.

According to my source the reason for their withdrawals has been confirmed by both sets of parents as being due to scholarships being offered that were "to good an opportunity" to knock back.

Neither boy is known to be outstanding scholars or amazing musicians and the only explanation for the offer from Kings appears to be sport, and namely Rugby related.

Considering the effort Gregs as been making in the past few years to build a rugby culture in the face of, and at times opposition, of it's well known and established rugby league culture this is very dissapointing and some what disgusting. My own opinion is that rugby will continue to reduce it's player depth and struggle as it is currently at the senior level if instances like this continue and the supposedly superior GPS schools just pillage the rest at the grass roots. Having one very strong schoolboys competiton in NSW/ACT is not healthy for development and as we are seeing with the destruction of rugby at SBHS and Grammar not healthy for the competition itself.

Anybody who thinks that having a select number of schools picking up kids they want at the expense at other schools and their respective competitions is a good idea or in line with the ideals of the modern professional game is deluded and I hope they are enjoying the view of seeing rugby in Australia become almost laughable. It may be nice to sit back at a test match and count how many wallabies your school has produced in the current wallabies sides but really what is the point if the wallabies are sh!t and cant stand up against the big boys year in year out.

Shame on Kings!!

Dont ask me to name my source, I wont. Dont ask me to name the kids I cant. This is very reliable information. Thanky you for your time.

Bringing in scholarship rugby playing boys in Year 11 is generally a signal that there is a lack of talent or depth in specific positions. In the GPS 2013 thread it has been stated that Kings have lost both Harry Jones and Sam Carter for next year so this may be behind it if the boys coming in are both backs. This type of thing can often do more harm than good though as there will no doubt be a number of Kings boys (and their parents) who will be aggrieved at missing out on an opportunity to play in the first XV and this can lead to a general undercurrent of miscontent especially if there is a lack of success on the field.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Good players does not necessarily mean good results for the 1st XV.

Kings 1st XV this year was full of NSW and Aust Schoolboys, and look at where they finished in the AAGPS 2012 Competition.

Buying talent doesn't always guarantee winning results. Ask Sydney FC.

I hope the two lads going to Kings make the absolute most of their opportunities and don't just go there to play rugby and eat their lunch.

 

[Quick Hands]

Good players does not neessarily mean good results for the 1st XV.

Kings 1st XV this year was full of NSW and Aust Schoolboys, and look at where they finished in the AAGPS 2012 Competition.

Buying talent doesn't always guarantee winning results. Ask Sydney FC.

I hope the two lads going to Kings make the absolute most of their opportunities and don't just go there to play rugby and eat their lunch.

And think of the pressure that these 2 kids are now under. 16 years old, starting a new school and expected to pass exams and play high level rugby.

When will all this end?

 

[Quick Hands]

As an aside, I seem to remember during the Daniel Halangahu, Daniel Conn era, that Dr Hawkes wrote to the Herald denying that Kings offered sports scholarships to rugby players.

It was in response, I think, to High forfeiting their 1st XV match to Kings in 2002 and the surrounding controversy.

 

[Braveheart81]

And think of the pressure that these 2 kids are now under. 16 years old, starting a new school and expected to pass exams and play high level rugby.

When will all this end?

Or you could look at it as two kids who have been given an opportunity to finish their schooling at an exclusive school that will help them achieve academically, play rugby and allow them entry to the old school tie network which might benefit them later in life.

Plenty of kids switch to a private school for years 11 and 12 because that's all their parents can afford.

Most private schools offer academic scholarships starting in year 11 as well.

 

[scaraby]

Or you could look at it as two kids who have been given an opportunity to finish their schooling at an exclusive school that will help them achieve academically, play rugby and allow them entry to the old school tie network which might benefit them later in life.

Plenty of kids switch to a private school for years 11 and 12 because that's all their parents can afford.

Most private schools offer academic scholarships starting in year 11 as well.

Anybody ask the kids.?..i will be willing to bet they went there very willingly. I'm trying to work out why the mood has always been so negative in this chat .....we are bashing a school that has given two boys something that they probably want. As for the pressure?? why dont you ask the kids at the local public schools who dont have the money,resources or support crowd and have to grind it out for themselves. To the kids who miss out...its tough and it seems not fair but if you want to play with the best then you have to beat the new guy because he's not going to sell himself short. The Wallabies arent picked on years served and if you need a lesson on how tough selections are then ask Phil Waugh or Chris Whittaker.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Anybody ask the kids.?..i will be willing to bet they went there very willingly. I'm trying to work out why the mood has always been so negative in this chat ...we are bashing a school that has given two boys something that they probably want. As for the pressure?? why dont you ask the kids at the local public schools who dont have the money,resources or support crowd and have to grind it out for themselves. To the kids who miss out.its tough and it seems not fair but if you want to play with the best then you have to beat the new guy because he's not going to sell himself short. The Wallabies arent picked on years served and if you need a lesson on how tough selections are then ask Phil Waugh or Chris Whittaker.

A lot of sense there.
No question in my mind that, if you think a private school education is a good thing, when you look at it from the point of view of the kids who get to attend the school it is a no brainer: and who am I/are we to say that I should (or any one of us should) have last call on whether that kid gets all the other opportunities, apart from rugby, that his rugby ability will bring him at a school.
The problem is that in every team for more than 100 years every school could have been improved by finding the best kid in each position or even a couple of kids for certain positions.
So once you start the arms race where does it end?

 

[Quick Hands]

Spot on. The issue is the motive of the school. The boys and their parents are merely taking advantage of a great opportunity.

I'm not particularly worried about the boys who might miss out on a spot in the 1sts because of this. As has been said many times before boys change schools for different reasons.

The larger issue is what it does to the very nature of the competition if, as it seems, some schools are bringing boys in to improve their team very late in the piece while others spend 6 years developing the boys that they have.

There are more things to school life than rugby.

 

[GPSrow]

Depression doesn't discriminate between high achievers and low achievers. I completely agree that pressure placed on an individual both by the individual and by others exacerbates depression. It isn't just high achievers who feel pressure or are placed under it though.

I don't think it is any more sad that a high achiever suffers from depression than someone who isn't a high achiever.

if you would know them.....you would understand.

 

[Braveheart81]

if you would know them...you would understand.

Huh? Because I don't know the two people you referred to I don't understand that a high achiever can suffer from depression?

Unfortunately, suicide is something that has touched most people's lives.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make...

 

[Hugie]

My view of the problem, is that it reinforces a myth.

This how I see the logic of the boys in club rugby land going.

• I dream of play prof rugby
• To play pro rugby I have to go to an elite rugby school ("one of them"), my parents can't afford to send me to one, so I can't be "one of them".
• I have to get a scholarship, they haven't offered me one, I'm not good enough.
• I'll play league I've got a much better chance, it is after all "our game".

We need to work hard at breaking this perception down.

By the way if the GPSchools are run like a business they should pay tax like a business.

 

[Quick Hands]

My view of the problem, is that it reinforces a myth.

This how I see the logic of the boys in club rugby land going.

• I dream of play prof rugby
• To play pro rugby I have to go to an elite rugby school ("one of them"), my parents can't afford to send me to one, so I can't be "one of them".
• I have to get a scholarship, they haven't offered me one, I'm not good enough.
• I'll play league I've got a much better chance, it is after all "our game".

We need to work hard at breaking this perception down.


By the way if the GPSchools are run like a business they should pay tax like a business.

What I don't get, particularly with Kings is:

• In the 13s they go down to about 13J or 13K
• That's a minimum of 150 boys playing rugby
• They have playing fields on site (maximum training time)
• They have excellent facilities

Yet when they get to opens, the school feels the need to recruit/import rugby players.

Surely with decent coaching they should be able to get a strong side of the boys who started in Year 7. Bearing in mind that 1st XVs often comprise players from Years 11 and 12 that's 300 rugby playing boys to pick from.

Are they saying that they can't get a strong 1st XV from a pool of 300 boys when they've had them in their coaching programme for 5-6 years?