School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Gristlechewer]

both my parents are dead.good joke dickhead

Sorry to hear about your parents, its obvious that no one else knew either. Lighten up old mate it was meant as humour...

 

[southsider]

over-reaction....my bad

 

[providence]

IB also is " every kiddie wins a prize " . When you see some of the gene pool mishaps that have come out with their "IB" clutched tightly in their 6 fingered paw, stating they have an edumacation! Yee ha. Give it up talking up International Baclaureat. It justs means that you are great a advanced rock sorting or you can twist coathangers into the shape of Straya.

Thanks for the reply; your fine and well rounded words and opinions seem to clearly demonstrate, and back up, my view on the need for change in both the classroom and on the rugby pitch. I am not sure if you are perhaps a Year 10 boarder or currently reside in a small village somewhere but Australia needs to move forward not backwards like it has been doing for so long both on the rugby pitch and in the classroom. I wouldn't imagine from your muse that you have helped this advancement to date in your short life?

Your comments demonstrate the entrenchment of myopic reasoning within the GPS system. Lack of xenophobia is not one of Australia's strengths. 'Keep things as they are' you cry. Great, lets keep going backwards. Our education system and rugby teams are in tatters.

Entrenched averageness is very hard to change and needs superb leadership. Advancement and change would be way to risky and scary wouldn't it? Couldn't do that!

 

[Lindommer]

Obviously I was unaware of your parents' demise, ss, please accept my apologies for the earlier remark.

 

[Gristlechewer]

Thanks for the reply; your fine and well rounded words and opinions seem to clearly demonstrate, and back up, my view on the need for change in both the classroom and on the rugby pitch. I am not sure if you are perhaps a Year 10 boarder or currently reside in a small village somewhere but Australia needs to move forward not backwards like it has been doing for so long both on the rugby pitch and in the classroom. I wouldn't imagine from your muse that you have helped this advancement to date in your short life?

Your comments demonstrate the entrenchment of myopic reasoning within the GPS system. Lack of xenophobia is not one of Australia's strengths. 'Keep things as they are' you cry. Great, lets keep going backwards. Our education system and rugby teams are in tatters.

Entrenched averageness is very hard to change and needs superb leadership. Advancement and change would be way to risky and scary wouldn't it? Couldn't do that!

Dear Providence

It is not I coming from the village, whereas I can say “look at me everybody!!!”. No Sir, I tend to think forward to stop advocating mediocrity, where every kiddie wins a prize.
There are going to be winners and losers right through your and my life. That why scores are kept. That’s why you undergo performance reviews, whether peer driven or self appraisal, So we keep moving forward, yes I agree. If you want change in the classroom, start driving education, where if you fail, suck it up, and try harder or get out and do menial labour, don’t fob off about “SuperSchools" and IB’s...
NO ONE FAILS IB. They just get "Working towards"
Just keep thinking the way you do and every thing will be just fine, because you will be leading around a bunch of illiterate narcissistic sociopaths,BUT they will all have great self esteem.
I am not myopic, I just don't tolerate egotistical promotion of "Wow, I'm a SuperSchool". It is our last great Australian Captain, John Eales, that stated so succinctly, that with greatness comes humility....
OR the other great philospher Jello Biaffra, who stated..."you're not very good at this...Are you?"
Deepest Regards
GC

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Thanks for the reply; your fine and well rounded words and opinions seem to clearly demonstrate, and back up, my view on the need for change in both the classroom and on the rugby pitch. I am not sure if you are perhaps a Year 10 boarder or currently reside in a small village somewhere but Australia needs to move forward not backwards like it has been doing for so long both on the rugby pitch and in the classroom. I wouldn't imagine from your muse that you have helped this advancement to date in your short life?

Your comments demonstrate the entrenchment of myopic reasoning within the GPS system. Lack of xenophobia is not one of Australia's strengths. 'Keep things as they are' you cry. Great, lets keep going backwards. Our education system and rugby teams are in tatters.

Entrenched averageness is very hard to change and needs superb leadership. Advancement and change would be way to risky and scary wouldn't it? Couldn't do that!

do you get extra marks in the IB for pomposity?


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[providence]

Dear Providence

It is not I coming from the village, whereas I can say “look at me everybody!!!”. No Sir, I tend to think forward to stop advocating mediocrity, where every kiddie wins a prize.
There are going to be winners and losers right through your and my life. That why scores are kept. That’s why you undergo performance reviews, whether peer driven or self appraisal, So we keep moving forward, yes I agree. If you want change in the classroom, start driving education, where if you fail, suck it up, and try harder or get out and do menial labour, don’t fob off about “SuperSchools" and IB’s.
NO ONE FAILS IB. They just get "Working towards"
Just keep thinking the way you do and every thing will be just fine, because you will be leading around a bunch of illiterate narcissistic sociopaths,BUT they will all have great self esteem.
I am not myopic, I just don't tolerate egotistical promotion of "Wow, I'm a SuperSchool". It is our last great Australian Captain, John Eales, that stated so succinctly, that with greatness comes humility..
OR the other great philospher Jello Biaffra, who stated."you're not very good at this.Are you?"
Deepest Regards
GC

Sounds like we don't agree on this one, and probably won't.

You are right re John Eales, he was the last great Australian captain. I remember though after roundly beating England on the 5th November 1999 John Eales proudly stated 'we stuffed them in the game tonight, lets stuff them again in the vote tomorrow'. (referring to the referendum on the 6th re the Australian head of state)

At the time I thought he must have received a knock on the head during the game but these days I have come to the conclusion that he was simply representing a large number of Australians in their fear and ignorance of the outside world. Dear John, that vote was all about Australia and Australia's future. It had nothing to do with 'stuffing' England. BTW shame it went the wrong way!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Now here's a take on the "Music Scholarship". While chewing the fat on the sidelines over the weekend with some of the other Dads, the topic of a certain teams performance was discussed and John* said that they hadn't been any good since the Under 15's.

"Why was that?" was asked another Dad.

"Because their halfback, Henry Smith#,was on a music scholarship at the school, and the parents pulled him off the rugby programme because they were worried about him getting injured. He is in the Tennis elective. That tore the guts out of the team." replied John.

There are genuine music scholarships and at least one of the recipients is not allowed to play rugby.



*not his real name.
# also not his real name.

 

[Eggsie]

Sounds like we don't agree on this one, and probably won't.

You are right re John Eales, he was the last great Australian captain. I remember though after roundly beating England on the 5th November 1999 John Eales proudly stated 'we stuffed them in the game tonight, lets stuff them again in the vote tomorrow'. (referring to the referendum on the 6th re the Australian head of state)

At the time I thought he must have received a knock on the head during the game but these days I have come to the conclusion that he was simply representing a large number of Australians in their fear and ignorance of the outside world. Dear John, that vote was all about Australia and Australia's future. It had nothing to do with 'stuffing' England. BTW shame it went the wrong way!

Our last great, and non-GPS schooled, captain.....

 

[sulidor]

I remember watching High beat Joeys at Mckay - yes, that long ago ! And I remember a High old boy yelling out - "i've waited all my life to see this !"
High lost one game that year, to a Scots side beefed up with imports to help them celebrate some anniversary with a rugby premiership. Scots "won" off the field, not on the field.
THAT'S a short term price of the uneven playing field created by "scholarships".
Long term costs include the debasement of the competition itself and defunct 1st xv progams - one gone, the next clearly on the brink......and after Grammar, how long before Shore follow ?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Happy to be corrected but High's rugby programme got decimated by the Fahey's govt decision to turn Selective High Schools into academic selective institutions - hence the likes of Jones-Hughes, Mann, Scherbina et al that once had an opportunity to attend that great school were zeroed. Very sad and I wish someone (Barry Farrell??) can return High back to the great institution it was - ie kids that are talented in more than one facet of life.

Chris Whittaker was about that vintage...Duncan Macrae, Craig Wing
I reckon this team might have beaten SJC.


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[Inside Shoulder]

I remember watching High beat Joeys at Mckay - yes, that long ago ! And I remember a High old boy yelling out - "i've waited all my life to see this !"
High lost one game that year, to a Scots side beefed up with imports to help them celebrate some anniversary with a rugby premiership. Scots "won" off the field, not on the field.
THAT'S a short term price of the uneven playing field created by "scholarships".
Long term costs include the debasement of the competition itself and defunct 1st xv progams - one gone, the next clearly on the brink..and after Grammar, how long before Shore follow ?

I remember the last 2 grammar teams to beat joeys.



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[G-78-XV-V]

I remember the last 2 grammar teams to beat joeys.



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get some sleep you lunatic...and dream about the win....wont happen again for a long time !!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

get some sleep you lunatic.and dream about the win..wont happen again for a long time !!

happens every night - the dream that is!

 

[CTPE]

The following article linked below is written by the Rector at St. Ignatius. I thought it was an interesting outlook on the concept of sporting scholarships within the GPS Sporting Community. Obviously, this may be more appropriate in the School Sporting Scholarships thread. But, this does have a lot of relevance to be in this thread because it applies and is directed towards the GPS Sporting Community.

Article: http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=14&Itemid=705

In order to read the article, click on the 'Issue 24 - 2012' link and read the 'A Sporting Chance - From the Rector' at the top of the page.

An interesting article that all should read - Just have a couple of queries:

1. "At one time, the Association of Heads of Independent Schools (of which Riverview is a member) had an agreement that sporting scholarships would not be offered. But in recent years (sadly, to the delight of many) the arrangement was struck down as contravening the Restrictive Trade Practices Act."

I haven't come across this explanation before about the reason why GPS schools offer sporting scholarships - it doesn't state however whether the restriction referred to is in relation to the schools conducting their education business or the players themselves - I can't see that it applies to the players as they are not offering their services for hire?

2. "At Riverview, people are valued. They are not commodities to be traded. Here, loyalties grow year by year. We call it home-grown talent. Flashing a fistful of dollars to change your colours and your commitment is not our way. Allegiances are not for sale. We make that point very clearly now in our printed Rugby and Football programmes each week both here and at St Aloysius’ College. At Aloys’ they put the year of a boy’s enrolment at the College next to his name to show they do not deal in recent imports. We do the same here, indicating the teams a boy has worked his way through over the years in reaching the Firsts."

Looking at last week's Riverview Firsts team from their programme I note the following: (with boys names omitted)

No 3 - played in the 2nd XV last year but no rugby prior at View
No 4 - did not play rugby at View prior to this year
No 9- - played in the 16As last year but no rugby prior at View
No 10 - played in the 1st XV last year but no rugby prior at View
No 13 - played in the 2nd XV last year and the U15A the year before but no rugby prior at View.

That's 5 out of 15 or 1/3 of the First XV . I don't suggest that these players are on scholarships of any type - but they are all either recent arrivals at Riverview or perhaps they were there but playing soccer prior to their rugby conversion?

 

[Freddo Frog]

This rubbish about "first enrollment year" on the rugby program neither proves nor disproves anything, and CTPE's example is perfect. Here we have Riverview - often held up as a pristine example of schoolboy sportsmanship and ethics, yet it appears that a third of the team are either recent enrollments, or recent rugby converts who've made it into the Firsts poste haste. Which proves what, exactly? Zilch.

For boarders in particular, it is fairly common for boys to start at a new school in Yr 9 in U15's, or even Yr 10 or 11. In most cases, this is without any forces at work other than the parents not having the means or inclination to pay out for 6 years of fees. People seem to have become obsessed with 'scholarship' kids....it's not always a bloody scholarship FFS.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This rubbish about "first enrollment year" on the rugby program neither proves nor disproves anything, and CTPE's example is perfect. Here we have Riverview - often held up as a pristine example of schoolboy sportsmanship and ethics, yet it appears that a third of the team are either recent enrollments, or recent rugby converts who've made it into the Firsts poste haste. Which proves what, exactly? Zilch.

For boarders in particular, it is fairly common for boys to start at a new school in Yr 9 in U15's, or even Yr 10 or 11. In most cases, this is without any forces at work other than the parents not having the means or inclination to pay out for 6 years of fees. People seem to have become obsessed with 'scholarship' kids..it's not always a bloody scholarship FFS.

it may not prove anything at all but it's made you hot under the collar and if it did the same across the board others might ave a long hard look at what they're doing.
However, the more I think about this issue the more I think that there are just too many unknowns and variables to ever be sure what lies behind the appearance of boys at one school or another.
The mere coincidence that at view some bursary boys are very good rugby players kind of steals his thunder a little.
The triangle is, after all, a noble instrument much overlooked when boys are choosing to specialise in a musical instrument.


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[Brian Westlake]

This rubbish about "first enrollment year" on the rugby program neither proves nor disproves anything, and CTPE's example is perfect. Here we have Riverview - often held up as a pristine example of schoolboy sportsmanship and ethics, yet it appears that a third of the team are either recent enrollments, or recent rugby converts who've made it into the Firsts poste haste. Which proves what, exactly? Zilch.

For boarders in particular, it is fairly common for boys to start at a new school in Yr 9 in U15's, or even Yr 10 or 11. In most cases, this is without any forces at work other than the parents not having the means or inclination to pay out for 6 years of fees. People seem to have become obsessed with 'scholarship' kids..it's not always a bloody scholarship FFS.

As I have said before, this is CTPE's way of deflecting from TKS. It is surprising no one these days when you hear players leaving one school and moving to another ala Nudgee to Ipps. It is happening in many schools that like to try and blame others.

 

[CTPE]

As I have said before, this is CTPE's way of deflecting from TKS. It is surprising no one these days when you hear players leaving one school and moving to another ala Nudgee to Ipps. It is happening in many schools that like to try and blame others.

Oh Brian, such a shallow interpretation of it all. I must say that the “deflecting from TKS” never entered my mind. Quite frankly the opportunity arose to examine what seemed to me to be a “holier than thou” commentary on the issue and I found it simply irresistible!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

..snip...
Who is Guilty?
How many kids are actually on genuine AAGPS code of practice breaching scholarships?
Sydney High – Probably none (Selectively academic, but are trying hard to attract more sporty smart kids in senior college provided they can keep up with the academic workload)
Grammar – Probably none
Armidale – Probably not. It would only be an issue if, and when, they started beating the city schools.
Shore – Probably none.
Joeys – hard to believe there are many, if any
View - hard to believe there are many, if any
New, Kings, Scots – All are frequently accused of being in breach, but I would be very surprised if there were genuinely more than 3 per year in senior college, and perhaps 1 or 2 per year in the middle school. Most of these would be rather arms length scholarships as well.

......

Posters here seem to have verified my statements with respect to Shore and Joeys.

Grammar's and High's results seem to speak for themselves.

View. Not sure what to read into the Rectors declaration from View via the newsletter. Seems bursaries may be OK provided you import early and the imports are from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. That is one way of interpreting the statement.

New, Kings and Scots. Posters seem to have adopted the Lance Armstrong defence. Although it seems to have been confirmed that at least one full fare student at Kings may have become some sort of matyr to the Club Rugby cause.

This all suggests that the original post wasn't too far off the money.