School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[whatever]

Imports, hmmm ... so for the little Timothy's everywhere and in the spirit of freedom of speach and free flowing information... King's have 8 boy's currently in their 1sts and 2nds on "Scholarship" and have a further 3 (year 7 entrants) on Bursary's of some level, e.g. boarding.

So.. Joey's, View, Scots', Shore and New ..... your numbers are ?

Finally, some honesty.

 

[random2]

Imports, hmmm ... so for the little Timothy's everywhere and in the spirit of freedom of speach and free flowing information... King's have 8 boy's currently in their 1sts and 2nds on "Scholarship" and have a further 3 (year 7 entrants) on Bursary's of some level, e.g. boarding.

So.. Joey's, View, Scots', Shore and New ..... your numbers are ?

As far as i know at Joeys there are 3 boys, who are all in 2nds, on scholarships. One is on a Math scholarship (he is actually very good at math), one is on a bursary as his older brother was dux a few years ago and the other is on an old boys bursary.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Only a couple more than previously predicted assuming accurate reporting.

And....... hardly monumental news. Bit like finding out that the Royal Family have bowel movements and break wind.

I suspect that the AAGPS hedmasters all "know" this, and if their Rugby MIC's don't then they should be sacked for ignorance, but not unlike the previous US military policy on homosexuality: it may be against policy; but if Uncle Sam doesn't ask, then Uncle Sam doesn't need to know.

What would actually be the benefit to the AAGPS schools collectively, if there was a public confirmation of rorting by a large % of the members?

Change the rules to remove any reference to Scholarships, and then we may have a serious Arms Race on our hands.

The AAGPS Headmasters (non scholarship version) may be more canny than we perhaps give them credit for.

Best way to encourage 16 and 17 year old to drink - Keep the drinking age at 18. Raise it to 20, and police it appropriately and 18-20 year olds will be in bars "illegally" but tacitly "approved". There will not be too many 16-17 year olds trying to pass themselves off as 20+. Job done.

 

[whatever]

Only a couple more than previously predicted assuming accurate reporting.

And... hardly monumental news. Bit like finding out that the Royal Family have bowel movements and break wind.

I suspect that the AAGPS hedmasters all "know" this, and if their Rugby MIC's don't then they should be sacked for ignorance, but not unlike the previous US military policy on homosexuality: it may be against policy; but if Uncle Sam doesn't ask, then Uncle Sam doesn't need to know.

What would actually be the benefit to the AAGPS schools collectively, if there was a public confirmation of rorting by a large % of the members?

Change the rules to remove any reference to Scholarships, and then we may have a serious Arms Race on our hands.

The AAGPS Headmasters (non scholarship version) may be more canny than we perhaps give them credit for.

Best way to encourage 16 and 17 year old to drink - Keep the drinking age at 18. Raise it to 20, and police it appropriately and 18-20 year olds will be in bars "illegally" but tacitly "approved". There will not be too many 16-17 year olds trying to pass themselves off as 20+. Job done.

That is just crap, HJ

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What would actually be the benefit to the AAGPS schools collectively, if there was a public confirmation of rorting by a large % of the members?

There would be a level playing field.

 

[GPSrow]

it seems necessary to tell the forum this, and not indicating any bias or arrogance, you must notice that Newington regardless of the talk of scholarships and 'importing' talk that has been plagued across GPS schools and Newington. That 4 of the current boys in the Newington 1sts/2nds teams (3 in 1s and 1 in 2s) have risen through the ranks all the way from Newington Prep School (wyvern).

And in my opinion i think that it is great that Newington boys or any other boys from GPS Prep schools from a young age can come thorugh the Prepartory systems and transform themselves through each individual schools rugby programs and become State and National worthy Rugby Union Players. Even though there is much talent coming in recently throughout the last 5 years from each GPS school respectively.

Secondly, good luck to all games this weekend and also i wonder which are other GPS schools 1sts/2nds teams have players that have begun at GPS prep schools, i wonder how many more there are.....

 

[John Dale]

it seems necessary to tell the forum this, and not indicating any bias or arrogance, you must notice that Newington regardless of the talk of scholarships and 'importing' talk that has been plagued across GPS schools and Newington. That 4 of the current boys in the Newington 1sts/2nds teams (3 in 1s and 1 in 2s) have risen through the ranks all the way from Newington Prep School (wyvern).

And in my opinion i think that it is great that Newington boys or any other boys from GPS Prep schools from a young age can come thorugh the Prepartory systems and transform themselves through each individual schools rugby programs and become State and National worthy Rugby Union Players. Even though there is much talent coming in recently throughout the last 5 years from each GPS school respectively.

Secondly, good luck to all games this weekend and also i wonder which are other GPS schools 1sts/2nds teams have players that have begun at GPS prep schools, i wonder how many more there are...

Interesting you bring this up. This i can imagine will open a pandoras box so to speak.
On the topic of importing, and players beginning at the prep ends of these schools and making it all the way to the end at the top level has now become a feat. Not to single out newington, as most of the other schools do partake in this, but 4 boys in the 1sts and 2nds that began newington at the beginning is not 'great', as you claim it to be. The boys who have played in the A's and B's all through the age groups now find themselves in the 3rds, 4ths teams because of the 'import scenario'.
Personally it does not bother me, but these are the implications as I am sure they do bother others.
There is of course the apposing argument that these so called 'imports' are receiving an enhanced education as a result of their sporting talent and are able to showcase there skills in a greater environment. Which is fantastic, no doubt.
Do not wish to stir argument, just thought I would give my view.
John Dale

 

[southsider]

Interesting you bring this up. This i can imagine will open a pandoras box so to speak.
On the topic of importing, and players beginning at the prep ends of these schools and making it all the way to the end at the top level has now become a feat. Not to single out newington, as most of the other schools do partake in this, but 4 boys in the 1sts and 2nds that began newington at the beginning is not 'great', as you claim it to be. The boys who have played in the A's and B's all through the age groups now find themselves in the 3rds, 4ths teams because of the 'import scenario'.
Personally it does not bother me, but these are the implications as I am sure they do bother others.
There is of course the apposing argument that these so called 'imports' are receiving an enhanced education as a result of their sporting talent and are able to showcase there skills in a greater environment. Which is fantastic, no doubt.
Do not wish to stir argument, just thought I would give my view.
John Dale

actually having recently come out of a newington i can tell you it is a big deal, it is quite a feat think about it when you start prep theres 2 classes with roughly 20 or so take into account that 10-15 wont even make it to the senior school, then take out all the un-cordinated kids then take out all the ones that dont play rugby (remebering newingtons ethnic diversity, lots of asians and wogs who tend not to play rugby) and you end up with a very small number of guys that play rugby let alone make it all the way to ones and two's so i think 4 guys is pretty good

(this is also comming from one of those players who were displaced from a import)

 

[Rugby from the backrow]

In shore's current 1sts, only 1 player didn't start in year 7 (5) Fisburn and 3 were in the prep school (1) McCathie, (8) Buckling and (9) Pulver.

I find this Thread disturbing as it infers that the only legitimate players are those that started in the prep.
Our boys who are boarders from the country did not start until year 9 due to the drought. Are they not real schoolboy footballers?

 

[providence]

When discussing Scholarships (S) I think it is also important to look at the context of each school. Each school I believe acts how they do for really VERY different reasons. My take on Newington is this;

Newington;

Actually brings in more S kids than anyone one else at the moment, and even more than people here suggest. I think this is real and the actual number in the current 1st XV could be as high as 10 or 12. This said though what is the context of this? Here is the only NSW GPS boys school to adopt the IB which if you ask any teacher anywhere is the most progressive level of education for 16 - 18 year olds. It's a huge investment to make to get an IB program up and running. Why have the other schools not done this? (the girls schools do!) The others seem stuck in this HSC tread mill of averageness. The HSC is way out of date and hence we also see our universities failing. (wallabies too) Newington have taken the more progressive road.....currently GPS champs in 4 / 8 sports, likely to end up being 5 or 6.

Academically Newington has been rising rapidly and is now on par with SHORE when you add the IB marks into the league tables (SMH does not ad them in).

So IB and Rugby S in abundance = success and forward thinking?! I have no particular allegiance to any of these schools but just enjoy watching the games. When visiting all these schools though I have gained the impression though that the majority seem to be stuck in a time warp.

When SGS boasts academic success on its website, as do others, why wouldn't they move with the times (and the girls schools) and think IB? (or re inventing their sporting programs?)

Just a thought!

 

[GPSrow]

I find this Thread disturbing as it infers that the only legitimate players are those that started in the prep.
Our boys who are boarders from the country did not start until year 9 due to the drought. Are they not real schoolboy footballers?

i can see how this thread could throw off some or may agitate some forum users, but i never indicated that these players were any better or any more special than the talent that is being brought into GPS schools in the past 5 years, i was simplying praising the GPS prep schools and GPS Senior Schools for the ability to be able to bring up State and National Worthy players as i mentioned before. An example of this, is OPL who was in the undefeated 12a's (which was a big deal) in Prep school and look what is happening now, 3 Years of 1st XV and one premiership under his belt. I'm just using him as an example and not trying to glorify him at all.

 

[GPSrow]

I find this Thread disturbing as it infers that the only legitimate players are those that started in the prep.
Our boys who are boarders from the country did not start until year 9 due to the drought. Are they not real schoolboy footballers?

Also i have my reasons and you have yours. I can truly understand yours.

 

[I like to watch]

Regarding the NewU/16s while their results indicate they may well be the weak link in our open division for 2013, however it should be acknowledged that Yr11 represents for many schools the single biggest intake of boys into the school apart from yr7. Yes all you critics can claim IMPORTS but the fact is all schools have entry points for new students some in year 10 or year 9. So before having the usual and standard well worn out, cry of TONGAN IMPORTS, who knows what talented rugby players may wish to take up the many benefits that can be obtained by education an at Newington College beginning at Yr 11 in 2013.

Having gone Newington myself and recieving a well rounded education I remember my Bible saying a phrase along the following lines " Only he without sin may throw the first stone" So complain as much you like the fact remains that is not one GPS school in existence that has not encouraged a talented sports person into their school or REPEATED him (Shore supporters please take note this includes the captain of your 1977 Co-GPS winning side and one Headmaster from the 1930s). I suspect the New 2014 1st XV will look very different from the New 201216As. If for no other reason than excellent coaching and the inclusion of players from the schools 14s and 15s age group.

What amazes me is that if you join in year 7 you have about 1 chance in 50 of playing 1st XV, however if you join in year 9 or 10, you have a 3 out of 4 chances of playing in the 1st XV.
I agree due solely to the excellent coaching, by 2013 the cohort will be much more competitive (and a little bit of help by those late developing new recruits to the School).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

When SGS boasts academic success on its website, as do others, why wouldn't they move with the times (and the girls schools) and think IB? (or re inventing their sporting programs?)

You are being selective or you didnt read the introduction to public exam results:

Because nearly all our boys proceed directly to university after leaving school, the Universities Admissions Index (UAI) or the Australian Tertiary Admission Rank (ATAR) are for us the best indicators of overall HSC performance in a given year.​

​

You may also need to consider the place of the IB: http://www.uac.edu.au/documents/undergraduate/ib-letter.pdf

Finally you need to understand the idea that, contrary to popular misconception, Sydney Grammar is not a marks factory:

I am often asked about my "philosophy of education". Few things in modern life invite more argument, yet the philosophy of Sydney Grammar School is simply and easily expressed. We exist in order to provide our boys with a liberal, humane, pre-vocational education.​

The word "liberal" comes from a Latin root meaning "free". Our curriculum is liberal in the sense that it is not based on the idea that you must "learn how to earn". There's time for that later. It is humane in the sense that our traditions stem ultimately from the classical tradition, and its subsequent reinterpretations both in the Judaeo-Christian context of the European Renaissance and in the context of modern scientific knowledge. And pre-vocational in the sense that we aim to give you a solid physical, intellectual and moral formation in order to prepare you for the specialized vocational training most of you will receive later in life. In practice, this means that we reject attitudes that belittle the importance of being human.​

 

[providence]

Inside,

I am not trying to slight a particular school, but more the system. Your above quote 'Because nearly all' I think reinforces my point as it purely pertains to Australian university entrance. I would have thought that outstanding individuals would want to broaden their horizons by studying at more progressive universities overseas. I would be surprised if you would seriously view our universities as exactly progressive, they have been falling behind for years.

The reality is that the HSC suits Australian universities, as does the IB. If you study for the IB and want to go to a top international university you can do so directly (Check the websites of Ox / Ca). If you do the HSC you will have to do a further assessment / exam to get in.....i.e the HSC is not recognised as such.

Anyway, my point was not to debate academics, it is simply to say that I think Newington is perhaps more progresssive than most other NSW boys GPS schools at the present time re sport and academics. This has not always been the case.

I just find this interesting.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Your above quote 'Because nearly all' I think reinforces my point as it purely pertains to Australian university entrance.

At the risk of seeming like a wanker - Grammar has a lot of kids that go to O/S universities straight out of school.
One of, if not, the reason is that the school and its headmaster is/are (?) actually known to O/S unis because of the sutdents they produce.
I suspect, without knowing, that Oz unis go down this path because of the requirements of Commonwealth funding.
Finally, in order to get this back to topic of this thread: giving lots of kids academic scholarships doesn't prevent rugby from flourishing outside the GPS/CAS systems: giving rugby induced scholarships does because the eyes are picked out of the already weak state school rugby "program" by taking the best it has to offer.

 

[Lindommer]

Also with Josh Schwager out due to injury year 7. And O'Donahue came in year 11 as a full payer due to 3 or 4 generations on his mother's side. I think we all look forward to the answers.

So..Bartlett went from the Methodists to the Marist Brothers: quite a conversion.

Not the first, don't forget Michael and Peter Jorgensen.

 

[Lindommer]

actually having recently come out of a newington i can tell you it is a big deal, it is quite a feat think about it when you start prep theres 2 classes with roughly 20 or so take into account that 10-15 wont even make it to the senior school, then take out all the un-cordinated kids then take out all the ones that dont play rugby (remebering newingtons ethnic diversity, lots of asians and wogs who tend not to play rugby) and you end up with a very small number of guys that play rugby let alone make it all the way to ones and two's so i think 4 guys is pretty good

(this is also comming from one of those players who were displaced from a import)

And they didn't teach you to spell proper at Stanmore. What's your parents' phone number, I'll suggest they ask for their money back.

 

[southsider]

And they didn't teach you to spell proper at Stanmore. What's your parent's phone number, I'll suggest they ask for their money back.

both my parents are dead...good joke dickhead

 

[Gristlechewer]

When discussing Scholarships (S) I think it is also important to look at the context of each school. Each school I believe acts how they do for really VERY different reasons. My take on Newington is this;

Newington;

Actually brings in more S kids than anyone one else at the moment, and even more than people here suggest. I think this is real and the actual number in the current 1st XV could be as high as 10 or 12. This said though what is the context of this? Here is the only NSW GPS boys school to adopt the IB which if you ask any teacher anywhere is the most progressive level of education for 16 - 18 year olds. It's a huge investment to make to get an IB program up and running. Why have the other schools not done this? (the girls schools do!) The others seem stuck in this HSC tread mill of averageness. The HSC is way out of date and hence we also see our universities failing. (wallabies too) Newington have taken the more progressive road...currently GPS champs in 4 / 8 sports, likely to end up being 5 or 6.

Academically Newington has been rising rapidly and is now on par with SHORE when you add the IB marks into the league tables (SMH does not ad them in).

So IB and Rugby S in abundance = success and forward thinking?! I have no particular allegiance to any of these schools but just enjoy watching the games. When visiting all these schools though I have gained the impression though that the majority seem to be stuck in a time warp.

When SGS boasts academic success on its website, as do others, why wouldn't they move with the times (and the girls schools) and think IB? (or re inventing their sporting programs?)

Just a thought!

IB also is " every kiddie wins a prize " . When you see some of the gene pool mishaps that have come out with their "IB" clutched tightly in their 6 fingered paw, stating they have an edumacation! Yee ha. Give it up talking up International Baclaureat. It justs means that you are great a advanced rock sorting or you can twist coathangers into the shape of Straya...