School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[GPS Observer]

For the record - Stuart Mill ( listed at #6 in Hits & Try's original post ) is a full fee paying boarder! Scholarship - I wish! Yes, he started in Year 11 - for economic reasons! He was booked in since before year K but in his case - circumstances dictate! His great uncle, uncle and nephew went to the school - it's a family thing! And yes - he happens to be a handy rugby player!

And as for "walking in" - you must be joking! This shows no respect for the amount of work that the boys do. As far as I know spots are still up for grabs and disappointment awaits for many - regardless of when they started school!

The list published by H&T is factually wrong - how much else in this list is false?

Take some advice and : " Believe half of what you see and none of what you read!!!"

Well said.
I never believed the 13/15 scholarship line was true. But didnt the indignation and accusations fly thick and fast...I think its called envy. So enjoy the football and rejoice at the skill of those involved from all schools.

 

[Kenny Powers]

There is a lot of emotion in the debate however it will always come second to reasoning and logic.

So I think it’s best to examine it from this perspective.

i) Parents generally make the decision about where their son’s go to school albeit the boy has to be happy where he is going.

ii) Why would parents of a son with some rugby talent make the decision to go to Newington? Because they want the best for their child. The parents are realistic and know that at best 1 or 2 boys from any one year in the entire GPS will set themselves up for life playing professional rugby. Trading rugby talent for a better education is an easy choice, no brainer as they say for the parents.

iii) As some posters have suggested do you honestly think the teaching staff, school sergeants, the headmaster, other parents, their peers etc would accept substandard behaviour or academic application from 1st XV boys? Do you believe the school staff are that unprofessional and will happily let 1st XV boys slip through the cracks?

iv) An interesting point is that the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation, (a very positive initiative) in NSW uses private schools exclusively. Why do they do this? I think this is best answered by Noel Pearson in the attached YouTube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItpphYwRz_4

‘they get swept along with the tide of high expectation’

This is the same reason why parents would take the opportunity for their sons at Newington. Rugby doesn’t last forever.

(Please note I am not trying to compare the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation to anything Newington is doing I am just examining the reasoning behind people’s decisions, when the opportunity presents itself to take advantage of an opportunity at a private school.)

So portraying and belittling these parents as a HSV, Chevy driving bogans with no class says very little about them but so so much about you.

Also the best part is that in life we all get to make choices as to what we think will be best for our children and other people’s opinions, are well ?????

 

[lincoln]

There is a lot of emotion in the debate however it will always come second to reasoning and logic.

So I think it’s best to examine it from this perspective.

i) Parents generally make the decision about where their son’s go to school albeit the boy has to be happy where he is going.

ii) Why would parents of a son with some rugby talent make the decision to go to Newington? Because they want the best for their child. The parents are realistic and know that at best 1 or 2 boys from any one year in the entire GPS will set themselves up for life playing professional rugby. Trading rugby talent for a better education is an easy choice, no brainer as they say for the parents.

iii) As some posters have suggested do you honestly think the teaching staff, school sergeants, the headmaster, other parents, their peers etc would accept substandard behaviour or academic application from 1st XV boys? Do you believe the school staff are that unprofessional and will happily let 1st XV boys slip through the cracks?

iv) An interesting point is that the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation, (a very positive initiative) in NSW uses private schools exclusively. Why do they do this? I think this is best answered by Noel Pearson in the attached YouTube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItpphYwRz_4

‘they get swept along with the tide of high expectation’

This is the same reason why parents would take the opportunity for their sons at Newington. Rugby doesn’t last forever.

(Please note I am not trying to compare the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation to anything Newington is doing I am just examining the reasoning behind people’s decisions, when the opportunity presents itself to take advantage of an opportunity at a private school.)

So portraying and belittling these parents as a HSV, Chevy driving bogans with no class says very little about them but so so much about you.

Also the best part is that in life we all get to make choices as to what we think will be best for our children and other people’s opinions, are well ?????

Even discussing Newington's targetting of talented rugby boy (ie U16s in 2011) in the same post as the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation is somewhat disingenuous.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Even discussing Newington's targetting of talented rugby boy (ie U16s in 2011) in the same post as the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation is somewhat disingenuous.

I suggest you re read the post I was examining it from the parents perspective not from Newington's perspective. As a parent if the opportunity presents itself for your child you will take it.

What is disingenuous is how some posts belittle the parents and the professionalism of Newingtons entire staff.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So portraying and belittling these parents as a HSV, Chevy driving bogans with no class says very little about them but so so much about you.

I missed the post where that accusation was made - what number was it?

 

[Gristlechewer]

We are going around in circles here. Yes these kids are good football players but does that conclusively mean that they are at the school ONLY for their ability to play football?

Yep....

 

[I like to watch]

I suggest you re read the post I was examining it from the parents perspective not from Newington's perspective. As a parent if the opportunity presents itself for your child you will take it.

What is disingenuous is how some posts belittle the parents and the professionalism of Newingtons entire staff.

What is professional about ignoring flouting the rules/guidelines that your School agreed to, with the other schools in the Association?
I am sick of the denyers constantly attempting to muddy the waters.
It has nothing at all to do with the players and/or their families.
It has nothing to do with whether the kid's involved get a leg up in life.
It has nothing to do with what ever the kids bring to the table outside of Rugby.
It's about a School agreeing to something, then blatantly breaking that agreement.

 

[sarcophilus]

Two targets

those that diminish the distribution of rugby by cherry picking from areas that need some rugby disciples

Cashed up Bogons .somewhere on Australia's East Coast
highly concentrated in an eight km strip between Newport and Maroubra that are able to make their sons success and just about everything else about them. Highly likely these don't need assistance for "good schooling" and aren't embarrassed by taking the opportunity from someone else who might.

 

[Spieber]

Well said.
I never believed the 13/15 scholarship line was true. But didnt the indignation and accusations fly thick and fast.I think its called envy. So enjoy the football and rejoice at the skill of those involved from all schools.

I am not sure envy is the right word - try bemusement, bewilderment, disgust, pity, sadness, sorrow, despair (for the integrity of the AAGPS) - and many more words but envy is not one of them.

 

[Spieber]

What is professional about ignoring flouting the rules/guidelines that your School agreed to, with the other schools in the Association?
I am sick of the denyers constantly attempting to muddy the waters.
It has nothing at all to do with the players and/or their families.
It has nothing to do with whether the kid's involved get a leg up in life.
It has nothing to do with what ever the kids bring to the table outside of Rugby.
It's about a School agreeing to something, then blatantly breaking that agreement.

I also wonder about the message they send to the boys, ie it is okay to win by cheating.

 

[DragonMan]

What is professional about ignoring flouting the rules/guidelines that your School agreed to, with the other schools in the Association?
I am sick of the denyers constantly attempting to muddy the waters.
It has nothing at all to do with the players and/or their families.
It has nothing to do with whether the kid's involved get a leg up in life.
It has nothing to do with what ever the kids bring to the table outside of Rugby.
It's about a School agreeing to something, then blatantly breaking that agreement.

I am not a"denier". As mentioned in my first post on this I do not believe in pure sporting scholarships and I would be very disappointed in my alma mater (an founder member of the AAGPS) if this is concsulively what they are doing. Of course it has something to do with what the kid brings ot the table outside Rugby. The GPS Code of Conduct prohibits pure sporting scholarships. It does not prohbit other types of scholarships. I've made the point before and I will make it again, it is not inconceivable that a boy can be an excellent sportsmen and shine in other areas of school life and thus merit a scholarship.

 

[GPSrow]

Gents, I will leave them nameless but there are only 2 boys in this week's New 1st XV that have started in year 7 for Newington and only 1 not on scholarship (JM). Is it a shame? or is it just a coincidence?

It's good to see that these two players of which my nephew knows personally, have come through the ranks and has played consistent rugby 13A's, 14A's 15A's rugby and so on, to now progress to one of the most controversial 1st XV's Newington and the GPS competition has seen since in the infamous 1993 Scots 1st XV.

 

[wreckless]

What is professional about ignoring flouting the rules/guidelines that your School agreed to, with the other schools in the Association?
I am sick of the denyers constantly attempting to muddy the waters.
It has nothing at all to do with the players and/or their families.
It has nothing to do with whether the kid's involved get a leg up in life.
It has nothing to do with what ever the kids bring to the table outside of Rugby.
It's about a School agreeing to something, then blatantly breaking that agreement.

Surely what it's about is NOT publishing spurious lists of players which are factually inaccurate as to their status ( vis-a-vis scholarsips etc. ) and throwing it out there as if it is FACT and waiting for the outrage to ensue!

This is the worst kind of propaganda mechanism - tell the lie often enough and it will become the truth!

H& T's list is WRONG and therefore the whole premise is flawed!

Cheers, ( a somewhat deflated ) Wreckless

 

[Brian Westlake]

There is a lot of emotion in the debate however it will always come second to reasoning and logic.

So I think it’s best to examine it from this perspective.

i) Parents generally make the decision about where their son’s go to school albeit the boy has to be happy where he is going.

ii) Why would parents of a son with some rugby talent make the decision to go to Newington? Because they want the best for their child. The parents are realistic and know that at best 1 or 2 boys from any one year in the entire GPS will set themselves up for life playing professional rugby. Trading rugby talent for a better education is an easy choice, no brainer as they say for the parents.

iii) As some posters have suggested do you honestly think the teaching staff, school sergeants, the headmaster, other parents, their peers etc would accept substandard behaviour or academic application from 1st XV boys? Do you believe the school staff are that unprofessional and will happily let 1st XV boys slip through the cracks?

iv) An interesting point is that the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation, (a very positive initiative) in NSW uses private schools exclusively. Why do they do this? I think this is best answered by Noel Pearson in the attached YouTube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItpphYwRz_4

‘they get swept along with the tide of high expectation’

This is the same reason why parents would take the opportunity for their sons at Newington. Rugby doesn’t last forever.

(Please note I am not trying to compare the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation to anything Newington is doing I am just examining the reasoning behind people’s decisions, when the opportunity presents itself to take advantage of an opportunity at a private school.)

So portraying and belittling these parents as a HSV, Chevy driving bogans with no class says very little about them but so so much about you.

Also the best part is that in life we all get to make choices as to what we think will be best for our children and other people’s opinions, are well ?????

Kenny,
It WAS A JOKE!!! Like money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a f$&@king big yacht that you can park right beside it... On a serious side,
If you are trying to work on the indigenous program that you posted the link to as justification for attempting to placate the issue of the uninhibited rorting of the "all rounder" scholarship. Mate, wake up and smell the roses. The old adage that if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and has a beak like a duck, it is more than likely a duck. Erego, if it smells like a rort, looks like a rort....

 

[I like to watch]

Surely what it's about is NOT publishing spurious lists of players which are factually inaccurate as to their status ( vis-a-vis scholarsips etc. ) and throwing it out there as if it is FACT and waiting for the outrage to ensue!

This is the worst kind of propaganda mechanism - tell the lie often enough and it will become the truth!

H& T's list is WRONG and therefore the whole premise is flawed!

Cheers, ( a somewhat deflated ) Wreckless

Funny!
You cannot claim one error on the list means the entire list is wrong.
Just as you can't claim one instance of community work means they all do it.
But you know that.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Kenny,
It WAS A JOKE!!! Like money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a f$&@king big yacht that you can park right beside it. On a serious side,
If you are trying to work on the indigenous program that you posted the link to as justification for attempting to placate the issue of the uninhibited rorting of the "all rounder" scholarship. Mate, wake up and smell the roses. The old adage that if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and has a beak like a duck, it is more than likely a duck. Erego, if it smells like a rort, looks like a rort..

The whole point of mentioning the AIEF was to illustrate the point that all parents want the best for their children and will take the opportunity when it presents itself. I was not trying to compare objectives as I explicitly stated in the paragraph that is in brackets.

What is annoying is the criticism the parents get on this forum and this belief that the teachers at Newington care nothing for the education and development of rugby players.

Scholarships are handed out by the school councils / boards, so your questions /complaints /criticisms would be best addressed by via correspondence with these schools councils. Contact details would easily be found on school websites and I think you would be a good chance of getting a reply out of most schools.

 

[wreckless]

Funny!
You cannot claim one error on the list means the entire list is wrong.
Just as you can't claim one instance of community work means they all do it.
But you know that.

Hilarious!

You cannot claim that one error on the list means the rest of the list is RIGHT!

But one error on the list puts the entire list in dispute! From several responding posts the original post by H&T was inaccurate! Not disputing your motives, but it is not right to publish hearsay and supposition as fact and invite intelligent comment!

 

[GPS Observer]

I am not sure envy is the right word - try bemusement, bewilderment, disgust, pity, sadness, sorrow, despair (for the integrity of the AAGPS) - and many more words but envy is not one of them.

Hang on, the original post about 13/15 boys on scholarships has been refuted by 2 or 3 of that clan. So where are you coming from? Do you not accept the refutes ?

 

[DragonMan]

Funny!
You cannot claim one error on the list means the entire list is wrong.
Just as you can't claim one instance of community work means they all do it.
But you know that.

I did not claim 'they all did community work'. Scrieber asked me for evidence of what else these boys bring to the school and that was a readily accessible example (it was reported in local press). It does not mean it is THE ONLY example. I do not attend the College (obviously), nor do I have sons or other close relatives that attend the College but I am sure that there Newington insiders who you could give you plenty of exmaples of leadership and other skills outsdie of Rugby that these boys bring to the College. For the THIRD TIME I DO NOT ENDORSE PURE SPORTING SCHOLARSHIPS!

 

[DragonMan]

What was refuted was that one of the 13 is actually full fee paying and I am glad this has been corrected. The majority have yet to be refuted including the Parra U20 rep.

It only takes ONE "sports/whatever" scholar to disqualify the whole team, which is what the AAGPS should do if they were true to their articles of association. Otherwise blow it up and let the arms race commence. Newington will not win that one.

Until the AAGPS gets its act together this type of shannigans will persist across all the sports. Bring on the points systems which will semi-formalise the rorting.

What is a "whatever" scholar? If it only takes one "sports/whatever" scholar to disqualify the whole team maybe EVERY SINGLE team in the 6 relevant GPS teams should be disqualified.

Each of the GPS schools finances are available on the myschool website. If you want to talk about "real money" and start a pissing contest take a look at King's Learning and Leadership Centre, Newington's PE Centre or new Resource Centre or the entire Riverview campus.