• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

School sporting scholarships/recruitment

Brian Westlake

Arch Winning (36)
I think that's the crux of it.
Both New and Scots have already, a few months back, said that there are some boys whose enrolments were not to the letter of GPS rules. So life moves on, and Scots has now made a public commitment to uphold the GPS code from here on in. I think that this is the best outcome we could have hoped for. We can't change the past, and surely no fair-minded person expects the schools to withdraw these boys enrolments.
Freddo it would never be about the withdrawal of their enrolments!!!!! For that I would fight stoutly alongside ILTW, QH and IS to make sure the boys stayed at the school to get the education they have been put in place for.
The crux is the bloody minded minions that, through reasons yet to fathom, that they have a "super programme that will inject these boys straight into S15 Wallabies next year.
The reasoning behind their logic beggars belief. Lemming like, they follow the lead, whilst blindly listening to the rhetoric from the chosen few and act upon any reply that somebody up the food chain does not agree with.
To write, such as ken did earlier, about 3 over 10 years at SJC vs 8 in one year of tsc as well as cricket and basketball seems a little spurious to say the least?
The anomalies and iregularities that were raised about good sportsmen at the school already will go through the system over the next 3 years.
This school has been caught with their hand in the biscuit tin and have been notified as such. Then if dr lambert is to his word, the boys in the super programme will shine through in all grades and find favour with the selectors and senior clubs they move to
 

Spieber

Bob Loudon (25)
Try harder Kenny.
You have gone back 10 years & provide 3 examples, one of which is a poor example.
Compare that to the 14 odd from last year at New,or the 8 or so from Scots this year.
It's not even close to being the same.

While it may not be close in terms of dimension it is still wrong. Problem is that the good doctor has been somewhat unsubtle in his bid for world domination. Given rugby results this year he really only need 2 or 3 imports rather than 8, likewise in basketball. Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
PS not a very insightful comment or providing a positive contribution to the debate but just making sure thread gets to 5000 posts soon. :eek:
 

Freddo Frog

Ward Prentice (10)
Brian I can see your point of view. But even the staunchest Joeys supporter (aside from Rugby Mum 2) would have to concede that the school has had far more than 3 athletes come to the school late and make a bee-line to the First XV. Not just 10 years ago, but year in, year out. I suspect IS is correct in saying that this is not terribly obvious, as Joey's tend to be stronger across the board than other schools, but it certainly happens. Same with Kings, just ask around the Wollongong area.

One area I must disagree with in your post though, is that Scots is implementing some type of 'super programme' with the aim of producing professional athletes, the implication of this being that its at a cost to their education. On the contrary, in my experience the school leadership and staff put an emphasis on the boys maintaining and improving their academic studies.
Yes the boys who take their rugby (or swimming, or soccer, or music) seriously have the staff and facilities there to get the best out of themselves. And yes, they work bloody hard and often commit to several extra training sessions a week. BUT these are open to every boy in the age group, not just a select few. Any boy who wants to, can go down and have a program drawn up for him, whether he's in the 13F's or any other team. Same for debating, same for academics - there are extra sessions for pretty much any activity. Of course they applaud sporting success, every school does (and so they should), but it is certainly not restricted to the Firsts and they equally applaud effort and success in all areas.
 
B

Brumby Jack the 1st

Guest
Running the score up to 101 is hardly showing humility and respect for the opposition..


What would you have those boys do? Drop the ball a few times before the line or maybe not run at full pace? Come on get a grip. Newington were crap and not only were they crap they gave up about 20 minutes in!!
 

Brainstrust

Watty Friend (18)
What would you have those boys do? Drop the ball a few times before the line or maybe not run at full pace? Come on get a grip. Newington were crap and not only were they crap they gave up about 20 minutes in!!
At nearly all levels of competitive sport, if one side is right up and the other is off ( illness/ injury etc) then you get score blow outs. Happens in loig all the time. I agree that regardless of the opposition you are most disrespectful if you don't play to your best for the full period. Laying down would have been unacceptable for both teams. The tough thing for the Scots boys is that the stench of scholarship is with them and any success they have will not be recognised by their peers. They may get the silverware but they won't get respect that some will have certainly deserved. So it may take a few years for the scholarship boys to filter through, but in the mean time we can still enjoy what has actually been some fantastic rugby, some close and unexpected results, and some great heart and skill shown by many boys. This weekend will be no different. Talk of a massive crowd at Riverview this week. If View can aim up it should be quite entertaining.
 

RugbyFan14

Herbert Moran (7)
What would you have those boys do? Drop the ball a few times before the line or maybe not run at full pace? Come on get a grip. Newington were crap and not only were they crap they gave up about 20 minutes in!!


In the lower grades i've seen plenty of times when coaches start subbing other players, instruct their boys to kick etc. In American college sports where mismatches do occur from time time there is an etiquette around not unduly running up the score. Some sports have a mercy rule when the score reaches a certain level the game is called.

I don't agree that easing up is disrespectful. Kicking a man when he is down is disrespectful.

I am also wondering - did it not occur to the coaches the publicity and scorn they would attract? Or do they not care?
 
B

Brumby Jack the 1st

Guest
In the lower grades i've seen plenty of times when coaches start subbing other players, instruct their boys to kick etc. In American college sports where mismatches do occur from time time there is an etiquette around not unduly running up the score. Some sports have a mercy rule when the score reaches a certain level the game is called.

I don't agree that easing up is disrespectful. Kicking a man when he is down is disrespectful.

I am also wondering - did it not occur to the coaches the publicity and scorn they would attract? Or do they not care?


This is still those boys team, that is there weekly game and it's a great honour to play in the 1st XV so why should those boys have to be subbed off because their opposition (who were joint premiers last year) didn't feel like tackling
 
T

The Big Marn

Guest
In the lower grades i've seen plenty of times when coaches start subbing other players, instruct their boys to kick etc. In American college sports where mismatches do occur from time time there is an etiquette around not unduly running up the score. Some sports have a mercy rule when the score reaches a certain level the game is called.

I don't agree that easing up is disrespectful. Kicking a man when he is down is disrespectful.

I am also wondering - did it not occur to the coaches the publicity and scorn they would attract? Or do they not care?


Many boys from the 1st were in fact subbed off. Furthermore, I think in many ways it is more disrespectful to not give a full effort towards your opposition, it says you don't respect them if you're not going to play your hardest against them. There was no taunting from Scots, no one was kicked 'while they were down' and the boys did indeed play with respect. The scoreline is never indicative of how respectful/disrespectful a team is. [DELETED]
 

RugbyFan14

Herbert Moran (7)
Many boys from the 1st were in fact subbed off. Furthermore, I think in many ways it is more disrespectful to not give a full effort towards your opposition, it says you don't respect them if you're not going to play your hardest against them. There was no taunting from Scots, no one was kicked 'while they were down' and the boys did indeed play with respect. The scoreline is never indicative of how respectful/disrespectful a team is. [DELETED]


Different philosophies on sport......prefer to address the arguments on their merits rather than swap insults...
 

RugbyFan14

Herbert Moran (7)
If what i have read on this thread the last couple of days is a good indication i sincerely hope CAS never get together with GPS. The two groups appear to have very different philosophies regarding the place of sport in their co-curricular programs.
 

Brian Westlake

Arch Winning (36)
Brian I can see your point of view. But even the staunchest Joeys supporter (aside from Rugby Mum 2) would have to concede that the school has had far more than 3 athletes come to the school late and make a bee-line to the First XV. Not just 10 years ago, but year in, year out. I suspect IS is correct in saying that this is not terribly obvious, as Joey's tend to be stronger across the board than other schools, but it certainly happens. Same with Kings, just ask around the Wollongong area.

One area I must disagree with in your post though, is that Scots is implementing some type of 'super programme' with the aim of producing professional athletes, the implication of this being that its at a cost to their education. On the contrary, in my experience the school leadership and staff put an emphasis on the boys maintaining and improving their academic studies.
Yes the boys who take their rugby (or swimming, or soccer, or music) seriously have the staff and facilities there to get the best out of themselves. And yes, they work bloody hard and often commit to several extra training sessions a week. BUT these are open to every boy in the age group, not just a select few. Any boy who wants to, can go down and have a program drawn up for him, whether he's in the 13F's or any other team. Same for debating, same for academics - there are extra sessions for pretty much any activity. Of course they applaud sporting success, every school does (and so they should), but it is certainly not restricted to the Firsts and they equally applaud effort and success in all areas.

If you reread some of the inane comments that have been made over the last 96 hours and listened to the interviews etc, I think you can fully understand the jaded look I have on this subject. A whole heap of new protagonists jumping on like religious heretics to the cause. The school is about education first and foremost, whilst a healthy mind needs a healthy body, but some of the newer contributors howling about pathways to S15? Freddo, give me a break.

The one thing that really makes me smile is that next year for these young men, this will mean F*^k all, as they get belted by their old team mates in Colts or by men in grade.
That is why Rugby is a beautiful game. When you take it back to its roots... Getting belted by a GPS boy or a CHS lad hurts the same.

And these guys know that already.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
What would you have those boys do? Drop the ball a few times before the line or maybe not run at full pace? Come on get a grip. Newington were crap and not only were they crap they gave up about 20 minutes in!!

The solution was used last year, find the ref who did the New v Shore match last year. With an avalanche of penalties Shore still lost 3-48 despite having 80% of possession and territory. (I was there with a mate to watch his son play in the 2nd match for Shore and stayed to watch most of the 1sts).;) (Yes I'm being sarcastic)

You're right, it's not up to the Scots boys to stop scoring - maybe the coach could take a few of his big guns off when it got to 50 - maybe he did and it made no difference. With a score like that it sounds like Scots played out of the skins and everything went right for them and New were flat and just went through the motions once they got behind. Can't blame the boys for the opposition's poor play.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
This is the thread that keeps weaving on itself. A 101-0 result was enough blood in the water to bring me back. Nevertheless I resisted temptation and logged out again before becoming infected. Now I have to stay around because I am just dying to see all the responses to this letter.

Dear Old Boys

On Saturday, our 1st XV Rugby team had an outstanding win against Newington College that has attracted quite a bit of media attention and comment. The final score was 101-0.

Frankly, much of the media comment is either misinformed or simply incorrect.

As an example, earlier today I took a telephone call from former Wallaby Phil Kearns (1989-1999). He rang to let me know personally that his comments had been misquoted in the press. Not everything you read in the press or online is true.

Yesterday, the Headmaster of Newington College, Dr David Mulford, released a statement saying, "Such a score-line shows how good Scots currently are with their 1st XV Rugby team. Newington had been hit with key player injuries plus were affected with a major gastro attack in the last few weeks. However, Newington acknowledges the superb teamwork and preparation of the Scots team. Even if we had been at full strength, we would have struggled to be competitive in this fixture. Newington understands that sport can go in cycles. We will welcome Scots back to Newington for the round 2 fixture."

The press doesn't cover the complete picture.

So today I am sending you some relevant facts. Our own news service if you like.

Fact number 1:

It is a policy of the College Council that all new admissions to the College in Years 9 to 11 must be full fee paying (see the complete policy below). This policy has been recommended for adoption by all GPS schools, however to date Scots alone has implemented it. Importantly, as a result no new student entering the College in 2014 is representing the College in any senior GPS sporting teams.

Fact number 2:

There is no “strength mismatch” as claimed by former Wallaby Nick Farr-Jones (1984-1993). Mr Farr-Jones was not at Saturday’s game. In fact, on paper, the team from Newington College was stronger with six NSW Schoolboy Representatives, including one Australian Schoolboy Representative. The Scots team included five NSW Schoolboy Representatives including one Australian Schoolboy Representative. Regardless, the safety of our boys and that of our opposing teams is always our utmost priority.

Fact number 3:

All of our sport programs, including Rugby, support the academic focus of the College. In many instances our boys actually spend less time training than their peers at other GPS schools. Sport directors track the classroom effort by every boy to ensure that boys are achieving balance between the academic program and the sport program. Indeed our data reveals that boys in high performing teams average higher scores in their academic results. We will never let sport commitments compromise a boy’s academic achievement.

Fact number 4:

Scots is not professionalising schoolboy sport. We unashamedly aim for excellence in sport in the same way we aim for excellence in Music, Mathematics or any other subject. When a boy’s excellent execution of applying oil to canvas is recognised, we praise his skill as an artist. When a boy plans, and executes an excellent closing argument, we praise his skill as a debater. Our sporting teams are no different. They plan, practice and then execute with precision on the field. We recognise it for what it is – excellence in their chosen sport. It is not professionalism. If executing with excellence is being professional, then as a College that is a tag I am prepared to wear.

I write to you today as a proud and protective principal. I am proud of the way our 1st XV executed its plan during the game. But I am even more proud of the humility and respect they showed for the opposition before and after the game. I am protective of all our boys and will not allow shallow and misguided criticisms to be directed at them without rebuttal.

Yours sincerely

Dr Ian PM Lambert Principal


_____________________________________________

Council Policy
Awarding of Scholarships/Bursaries

In an effort to ensure that The Scots College continues to maintain the highest level of compliance with the GPS Code of Practice, the College Council, with the consent of the Principal, adopts the following policy:

a. The Principal will in his monthly report provide to Council details of any new admissions to the College in Years 9 to 11.

b. All new admissions to the College in Years 9 to 11 must be full paying. No scholarships or bursaries will be awarded to enrolments for those years except within existing preferred categories of being sons/grandsons of Old Boys, sons of Presbyterian ministers or indigenous students. Care must be taken in awarding any such scholarship or bursary to ensure the GPS Code of Conduct is complied with.

c. Details of any proposed scholarship or bursary for an enrolment in Years 9 to 11 must be provided by the Principal to the College Council in his monthly report.

d. In special cases where there are exceptional circumstances, the Principal may recommend to Council that a scholarship or bursary be awarded for an enrolment in Years 9 to 11 who does not fall within the preferred category of enrolment specified above. In such a case the Council must approve the award of the scholarship or bursary and if the student has disclosed sporting talent, the Principal must notify the Heads of all GPS schools.

The Principal will ensure that all staff members are required to refrain from any conduct which could constitute a breach of the GPS Code of Conduct regarding enrolments. In particular, staff will need to undertake in their contracts of employment an obligation such as the following:

"I will not approach students from other schools, including offering any kind of inducement or third party consideration, to encourage them to seek enrolment at the College."

He's going ok with Fact 1, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with Fact 2 - NFJ was out of order, but I think he's stretching things a bit with Facts 3 and 4.

Dr Mulford could hardly say anything else could he after the last couple of years?
 

Gregor

Ward Prentice (10)
The Principal will in his monthly report provide to Council details of any new admissions to the College in Years 9 to 11

Mmmmmm. This is new. The former Principal didn't have this stipulation during his reign. The council received a report 4 times a year, not monthly. Seems the good Doctor is now being micro-managed. Are the 1st class travel to attend overseas study and conference junkets be coming back to haunt him? Maybe it was the $2 million refurbishment disaster of his Camelot..I mean Aspinall House.

<deleted>

Interesting take on this Vindictam. You say micro-manage, others may argue more transparency. Don't really understand the connection between the trips overseas, the refurbishment of Aspinall House and the monthly report on new admissions. Can you enlighten me?
 
Top