School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

Half a team in year 9. A whole team in Year 7 - six of one, half a dozen of the uvver ...
My only point with the Riverview fella is there's precious little scrutiny sent Lane Cove way.
So if you recruit two or three it seems to be ok, but double it and yer silvertailing the comp ???? Is that the gist of the bellyache ?

You say it as if its self evidently preposterous that doubling the number of kids is not a marked difference.....one thing should be made clear: no one begrudges these kids a better education if they can get in on the back of their football ability.
Neither 'View nor New have got acceptable academic records based on Naplan - its likely these kids would get the same education at a state school. The consequence is that this is only benefitting one side of the equation.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10747658

An extract from a series of articles I stumbled upon in the NZ herald on Schoolboy rugby.

Yeah but they're only offering to pay in NZ dollars

 

[Nusadan]

You say it as if its self evidently preposterous that doubling the number of kids is not a marked difference.....one thing should be made clear: no one begrudges these kids a better education if they can get in on the back of their football ability.
Neither 'View nor New have got acceptable academic records based on Naplan - its likely these kids would get the same education at a state school. The consequence is that this is only benefitting one side of the equation.

Source please?

 

[Finland Fella]

Neither 'View nor New have got acceptable academic records based on Naplan - its likely these kids would get the same education at a state school. The consequence is that this is only benefitting one side of the equation.

True. If Tony Abbott had gone to Grammar instead of View he could be as smart (and rich) as Malcolm Turnbull.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

True. If Tony Abbott had gone to Grammar instead of View he could be as smart (and rich) as Malcolm Turnbull.

and beEn in the 1st XV FOR 3 years

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Source please?

http://www.myschool.edu.au/MainPage...r=2010&RefId=u9pssImxi5ngxjsa1Uq1bOQGPz1Or9OI

http://www.myschool.edu.au/MainPage...r=2010&RefId=aMhdSbtm2hdCjC+U6C48+XCF86aEIR1L

http://www.myschool.edu.au/MainPage...r=2010&RefId=u9pssImxi5nmJoA233LQeKycyzXfmwkh

http://www.myschool.edu.au/MainPage...r=2010&RefId=JIxrO+N+FiQN23641Usrrc7Xuz4U7yg7

Let me know if you dont understand and I'd be happy to explain it to you

 

[matty_k]

You're going to have to take screen caps of the myschool pages. The searches time out after awhile.

 

[Nusadan]

You say it as if its self evidently preposterous that doubling the number of kids is not a marked difference.....one thing should be made clear: no one begrudges these kids a better education if they can get in on the back of their football ability.
Neither 'View nor New have got acceptable academic records based on Naplan - its likely these kids would get the same education at a state school. The consequence is that this is only benefitting one side of the equation.

Using View as a guide only, I don't understand how you could draw such conclusions re scholarships 'benefitting one side of the equation' from looking at say, Year 9 figures when the school has an average score 'substantially higher than the average of all schools' generally...that school offers more than just educational aspirations as compared to Grammar, High, James Ruse High etc...and takes in students from all sectors of society with their bursary programmes. Sure, I personally know several students that have attended View on back of an AFL club sponsorship, but an union one?

I am of a mind that you are blowing a lot of smoke in respect of View, and that school has done very well simply due to its rugby programme and sheer playing numbers, and it would be fair to say it is an attraction for a boy and his parents intending to enrol at View. But to offer an internal scholarship just to boost the 1st XV's chances goes against what I know of the school's ethos.

Should you be able to name names here to refute my assertion without any doubt, then I will take back what I said.

 

[ON85]

You say it as if its self evidently preposterous that doubling the number of kids is not a marked difference.....one thing should be made clear: no one begrudges these kids a better education if they can get in on the back of their football ability.
Neither 'View nor New have got acceptable academic records based on Naplan - its likely these kids would get the same education at a state school. The consequence is that this is only benefitting one side of the equation.

Really like to see the link on which u base that statement. Every NAPLAN results sheet I've seen confirms Newington's excellence for a non selective school

 

[ON85]

http://www.myschool.edu.au/MainPage...r=2010&RefId=u9pssImxi5ngxjsa1Uq1bOQGPz1Or9OI

http://www.myschool.edu.au/MainPage...r=2010&RefId=aMhdSbtm2hdCjC+U6C48+XCF86aEIR1L

http://www.myschool.edu.au/MainPage...2010&RefId=u9pss Imxi5nmJoA233LQeKycyzXfmwkh

http://www.myschool.edu.au/MainPage...r=2010&RefId=JIxrO+N+FiQN23641Usrrc7Xuz4U7yg7

Yr links don't work but a quick check of the My School website confirms that New's performances across the years are inevitably 'substantially above' in just about every category. Don't think your position is particularly strong

Let me know if you dont understand and I'd be happy to explain it to you

 

[ON85]

That last post of mine could appear sarcastic, not meant to be, just bad positioning of the response. That last line is yours from previous post

 

[Hugh Jarse]

What is the issue with Sydney Schoolboy Scholarships?

Both GPS and ISA rules forbid these, and I presume CAS does as well. What defines a Rugby scholarship?

If a kid is positioned at a "prestigious" rugby school by a third party on the back of their athletic or rugby ability - Say a Church group - Is this a forbidden scholarship under AAGPS rules?

If another kid is placed at the same school with the fees paid by a Mungoball club (about $20k plus), and allowed to play rugby for the School by the mungoball paymasters - Is this a forbidden scholarship under AAGPS rules?

Same for a kid on an Swans AFL fully funded scholarship, are they allowed to turn out for the Basketball team in the Summer GPS games?

Or is it only scholarships which are funded from the general operating fund of the school (ie subsidised by all other fee paying parties - typically the parents) that are forbidden under AAGPS and ISA rules?

 

[Man on the hill]

Day 1, week 2 of term 4 - what new rugby type faces have sprung up at various locations that might look suspiciously like "assisted entry" type boys.

 

[Man on the hill]

What is the issue with Sydney Schoolboy Scholarships?

Both GPS and ISA rules forbid these, and I presume CAS does as well. What defines a Rugby scholarship?

I'm guessing, but the expression plausible deniability wants to leap from my lips here.

I think you’ll find that each school takes the US military option – don’t ask, don’t tell with regards to who pays the fees for each enrolment, especially if they suspect that they are being covered off by a 3rd party!

That way – they can put their hand on their lying Christian hearts and say – watch my lips – NO SCHOLARSHIPS! Sounds ever so slightly like a Bill Clinton denial, but hey, so long as their consciences let them sleep at night….

 

[smokinjoe]

Day 1, week 2 of term 4 - what new rugby type faces have sprung up at various locations that might look suspiciously like "assisted entry" type boys.

Hear Trinity got a prop from NSW under 16s to add to their outstanding preparation for 2013!
Casnovian or Snort can confirm/deny.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Using View as a guide only, I don't understand how you could draw such conclusions re scholarships 'benefitting one side of the equation' from looking at say, Year 9 figures when the school has an average score 'substantially higher than the average of all schools' generally...that school offers more than just educational aspirations as compared to Grammar, High, James Ruse High etc...and takes in students from all sectors of society with their bursary programmes. Sure, I personally know several students that have attended View on back of an AFL club sponsorship, but an union one?

I am of a mind that you are blowing a lot of smoke in respect of View, and that school has done very well simply due to its rugby programme and sheer playing numbers, and it would be fair to say it is an attraction for a boy and his parents intending to enrol at View. But to offer an internal scholarship just to boost the 1st XV's chances goes against what I know of the school's ethos.

Should you be able to name names here to refute my assertion without any doubt, then I will take back what I said.

You evidently felt ignored by my failure to respond to this post and I am sorry about that.
I really dont understand the point(s) you are trying to make.
Riverview's present Naplans are appalling for a school with its socio-economic (i.e. high income earning well educated people) background and having regard to the academic traditions of the Jesuits. They dont have a sporting pedigree in anything other than athletics.
Calling for names is ridiculous -(a) if i knew them it would be unfair to their owners (b) I dont know them.
As for Newington ON85 your caravan has moved on given the number of NSW u16's recruited recently: the school seems determined to win rugby premierships on the back of scholarships irrespective of (a) what it does to kids already at the school (b) the message it sends about an amateur sport taking precedence over all else (c) the indifference to the academic results of those it brings in.
This culture, which is specifically contrary to the rules of the AAGPS, puts rugby players on a pedestal irrespective of what is going on in the rest of their life. In the US college system you have to maintain academic eligibility, which may be token, but its more than either of these schools demand.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

"just about every category"
if you've got a lazy $30k for each child, after tax, chances are youre a big earner: probably got some brains. You'd need to ask why, after spending the $30k you've won the rugby premiership but the school has not achieved substantially above in all categories - without fail.
Rugby premierships are fine for the XV who get 'em but they dont pay the bills in later life.

 

[Casnovian]

Hear Trinity got a prop from NSW under 16s to add to their outstanding preparation for 2013!
Casnovian or Snort can confirm/deny.

Can confirm Jackson McLean (Country & NSW U16 prop) and Connor Finn - both new additions to Trinity this term. Jackson not too shabby in the basketball court as well!

 

[Nusadan]

You evidently felt ignored by my failure to respond to this post and I am sorry about that.
I really dont understand the point(s) you are trying to make.
Riverview's present Naplans are appalling for a school with its socio-economic (i.e. high income earning well educated people) background and having regard to the academic traditions of the Jesuits. They dont have a sporting pedigree in anything other than athletics.
Calling for names is ridiculous -(a) if i knew them it would be unfair to their owners (b) I dont know them.
As for Newington ON85 your caravan has moved on given the number of NSW u16's recruited recently: the school seems determined to win rugby premierships on the back of scholarships irrespective of (a) what it does to kids already at the school (b) the message it sends about an amateur sport taking precedence over all else (c) the indifference to the academic results of those it brings in.
This culture, which is specifically contrary to the rules of the AAGPS, puts rugby players on a pedestal irrespective of what is going on in the rest of their life. In the US college system you have to maintain academic eligibility, which may be token, but its more than either of these schools demand.

Was having a fun dig at you as I had thought you didn't answer because you had no guts respond to my earlier post, and also to one other similar post by another member here, I asked you to name names and you couldn't back it up and now yet you still can't.

Hiding behind the reasons for not naming names shows what a poor case you have, and please be very mindful of making allegations without facts to support them in such litigious times.

Again, a school is more than just an academic institution, it sets up individuals to be worthy contributors to the society and help out those in need, and Riverview and many other fine schools do that very well, sorry you couldn't see that point in my earlier post, and Riverview, I repeat, just happen to have the numbers to have a good rugby programme, so it has no need to offer scholarships in the first place whether allowed or not.

Hope this post makes sense to you this time, mate.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Re-reading the thread I think I have been wrong to include 'view.
I am not aware that they offer sporting scholarships.
I think their results are poor: joeys' are significantly better and the 2 schools have a similar ethos but that's not a rugby issue as such.
I make no apologies for My criticism of Newington and I would add Kings to that.



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