School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

Coaches and teams don't get rewarded for learning life lessons about overcoming adversity or learning how to take a loss..such life lessons are best taught by responsible parents.

Coaches? rewards? They get paid that's part of their reward and the other part is the intangible knowledge that they helped young people along.
Unlike you two I do not subscribe to the view that all problems in life or rugby can be solved by throwing more money at them.

 

[Azzuri]

Unlike you two I do not subscribe to the view that all problems in life or rugby can be solved by throwing more money at them.

IS...Utopia is just down the hall and turn left...right next to the doors labelled, Cantseethewoodforthetrees and misquoteandmisinformiswhatidobest.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If only you 2 had been there to defend them before they fell on their sword

 

[Boof]

If only you 2 had been there to defend them before they fell on their sword

Not sure whether to offer you a tissue to dry your eyes or to wipe the dribble off your chin. We are definitely 2 individuals, who would have thought there would two that would disagree with your ideals.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

We are definitely 2 individuals

Now, who said you weren't?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Given the emotive nature of the subject. there is a fair bit of latitude granted in this thread that may not necessarily be allowed on other threads.

Let's try and keep the discussion objective, in good humour, self regulated and not drag it down to a personal level.

Yes, it is a very circular argument because every year there are a new group of pro, and anti scholarship posters parachuted into this thread all vehemently believing that what they have to say is revolutionary and new.

As a long term reader and contributor to this thread, there really is nothing new coming out, and the cycle repeats itself about every 50 pages or so. However please note that this thread exists as an essential safety relief valve to ensure that the various other schoolboy rugby threads don't get sidetracked and bogged down in claims/counter claims of importing, scholarshipping, bursaries, enticements etc.

 

[Boof]

Now, who said you weren't?

Making personal attacks on me would fine if the schools had not conceded the error of their ways: so the two of you (assuming you are not one and the same person) are defending (an) institution(s) that has given up defending itself.

 

[Azzuri]

If only you 2 had been there to defend them before they fell on their sword

IS....You are the master of the same sort of fallacious reasoning that posits that boys have two arms and two legs and girls have two arms and two legs, therefore all boys are girls.

There are other views and FACTS which you steadfastly dismiss because they don't suit your argument.

Here is a small entree of reality for you to digest.

Reality 1: Not all boys who join a GPS school after year 7 are on some form of bursary, grant, gift or scholarship from a school. Their parents see value in sending their lads and actually pay full freight.
Reality 2: some of these boys are already playing rugby at a high level and joining a GPS school means they will continue to do so in an environment that encourages co-curricular activity.
Reality 3: Not every boy that joins after year 7 displaces players who deserve to be in a particular squad
Reality 4: Some schools have flouted the rules in the past. The past however is the past and those that continue to use that as some form of spurious "evidence" are destined to live in the past.
Reality 5: not every boy who is on a scholarship or bursary plays rugby

There endeth the lesson...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS..You are the master of the same sort of fallacious reasoning that posits that boys have two arms and two legs and girls have two arms and two legs, therefore all boys are girls.

There are other views and FACTS which you steadfastly dismiss because they don't suit your argument.

Here is a small entree of reality for you to digest.

Reality 1: Not all boys who join a GPS school after year 7 are on some form of bursary, grant, gift or scholarship from a school. Their parents see value in sending their lads and actually pay full freight.
Reality 2: some of these boys are already playing rugby at a high level and joining a GPS school means they will continue to do so in an environment that encourages co-curricular activity.
Reality 3: Not every boy that joins after year 7 displaces players who deserve to be in a particular squad
Reality 4: Some schools have flouted the rules in the past. The past however is the past and those that continue to use that as some form of spurious "evidence" are destined to live in the past.
Reality 5: not every boy who is on a scholarship or bursary plays rugby

There endeth the lesson.

I have never asserted any of these things.
It is not past yet - but don't let that spoil your self satisfaction.

 

[Azzuri]

Identify a single post where I have asserted any one of those things?
It is not past yet - but don't let that spoil your self satisfaction.

A cheeky but ineffectually baited hook.

My apologies if you feel I've been too harsh but I'll leave it for you to review your posts.....many of which I've read since joining the forum.

and thanks.....I'll consider my self satisfaction unspoiled.

 

[Quick Hands]

Here is a small entree of reality for you to digest.

Reality 1: Not all boys who join a GPS school after year 7 are on some form of bursary, grant, gift or scholarship from a school. Their parents see value in sending their lads and actually pay full freight.
Reality 2: some of these boys are already playing rugby at a high level and joining a GPS school means they will continue to do so in an environment that encourages co-curricular activity.
Reality 3: Not every boy that joins after year 7 displaces players who deserve to be in a particular squad
Reality 4: Some schools have flouted the rules in the past. The past however is the past and those that continue to use that as some form of spurious "evidence" are destined to live in the past.
Reality 5: not every boy who is on a scholarship or bursary plays rugby

There endeth the lesson.

In fairness, I don't think anyone on this thread has ever asserted Realities 1, 2, 3 & 5.

Interesting when an argument is put that you don't agree with, it's lecturing, but you don't seem to mind a mini-lecture yourself.

The only realities that I can see are:

Some people think it's ok for schools to offer scholarhips or bursaries or other inducements to talented sportsmen and others don't.

People have differing views on whether schools should be about education, with sport and other activities as complementary while others seem to equate the playing of games (not only rugby) with academic endeavours.

 

[Azzuri]

In fairness, I don't think anyone on this thread has ever asserted Realities 1, 2, 3 & 5.

Interesting when an argument is put that you don't agree with, it's lecturing, but you don't seem to mind a mini-lecture yourself.

The only realities that I can see are:

Some people think it's ok for schools to offer scholarhips or bursaries or other inducements to talented sportsmen and others don't.

People have differing views on whether schools should be about education, with sport and other activities as complementary while others seem to equate the playing of games (not only rugby) with academic endeavours.

My soap box will henceforth be retired to the laundry.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So, you want to express an opinion about whether there should be rules or not? or have I misunderstood?
if so, i don't see what's stopping you.
I am prepared to say that (IMO) a comp, any comp, without these sort of rules is a matter for the participants, except to the extent that it harms the ability of rugby to appeal to a wider playing base by being concentrated in certain schools or schools from particular school systems.

 

[Azzuri]

Happy to declare an view.

I like the transparency of the QLD GPS model...

Take Nudgee college for example:

Bursary applications are awarded in two ways (From their website):

1. Formal Examination OR
2.Submission of Detailed Curriculum Vitae- This option specifically applies to young men at an elite academic, sporting and cultural level as well as young men who have demonstrated exceptional service to the community, wishing to gain entry into Nudgee College. Submissions are assessed on a case by case basis

Whatever system is in place I somehow doubt the appetite for schools to go beyond the level of scholarship support they currently offer as market forces and prudent financial management will act in concert to limit such behavior.

What may need to change in the future is the way they position the scholarships and the process they use for determining who gets what and why.

 

[tavytoo]

In fairness, I don't think anyone on this thread has ever asserted Realities 1, 2, 3 & 5.

Interesting when an argument is put that you don't agree with, it's lecturing, but you don't seem to mind a mini-lecture yourself.

The only realities that I can see are:

Some people think it's ok for schools to offer scholarhips or bursaries or other inducements to talented sportsmen and others don't.

People have differing views on whether schools should be about education, with sport and other activities as complementary while others seem to equate the playing of games (not only rugby) with academic endeavours.

to change tack slightly all boys are different and the private sector offers opportunities for their skills and talents to develop and mature over time with or without a financial leg up- its just that the entry points into the system may vary depending on each individuals family circumstance . the choice of pathway comes down knowing what their child needs to maximise their potential now and for the future and often the schools are good at judging that too Its not just about sport but the whole cross curricular aspect including academics (even if the boys are that interested)

 

[Jasdec]

It all started with a sighting by Vindictam of TSC on a game drive at Drummoyne Game Park. Quick Hands jumps in like a startled gazelle questioning who is in charge of the game drive and it begins to gain momentum.
Apparently it was going to be a very long weekend so an impromptu game of “tip” is organised as a sideline distraction to the main game with willing participants putting up their hands for selection.
Quick Hands, Inside Shoulder, It Is What It Is, Former Flanker
Tavytoo, Boof, Gregor, Azzuri
Lincoln and Providence are also there.

Kickoff sees QH take the ball and make good ground before being tackled by Boof. QH gets the ball away to Former Flanker in a smart offload. Boof comes in again and makes a good tackle supported by Tavytoo. The game is flowing well with Lincoln and Providence entering the fray however they appear uncertain as to which side they should play for having turned up after the start of play.

This is of little concern as QH, IS and IIWII are discussing the type and size of the uniform as they run on.
Tavytoo grabs the pill and runs straight at IS who resolutely holds his ground, Providence comes in late and QH gives him a clip up the side of the head. Things are starting to deteriorate.
Tavytoo has broken the tackle of IS and run into QH who manages to hold on. IS gets up to rejoin the defensive line however is knocked over in backplay by Azzuri and Gregor looming in support of Tavytoo.

This causes an all in brawl and the referee with the Huge Arse comes in to break it up and get the players back on the game. There are to be no more late tackles, eye pokes or squirrel gripping or they will be yellow carded.

Boof and Azzuri continue to niggle IS however both teams pause to congratulate Azzuri on the 4,500 post on this thread which is indicative of the time frame of this game. QH likes this.

Score at this stage - Nil All
Best Players – Cannot be determined at this stage.

The Game continues into the evening with the background music of Hotel California.
“You can check out any time you want but you can never leave …..”

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Very (Edit: very) good.
Though I didn't like the suggestion I had fallen off a tackle

 

[Jasdec]

Very good.
Though I didn't like the suggestion I had fallen off a tackle

Yes sorry about that IS, not having seen your live game it was a bit presumptuous. I was actually hoping that LG was viewing this so he could see that I was warming up for this weekends round if required.

 

[Gregor]

I didn't like the fact you suggest that I play dirty! You failed to mention the chip kick, just prior to the tackle of QH on Tavytoo. If you had, you would have noticed that IS was staring at the ball in the air and not watching where he was going when he ran into the back of Azzuri and me.

 

[Quick Hands]

It all started with a sighting by Vindictam of TSC on a game drive at Drummoyne Game Park. Quick Hands jumps in like a startled gazelle questioning who is in charge of the game drive and it begins to gain momentum.
Apparently it was going to be a very long weekend so an impromptu game of “tip” is organised as a sideline distraction to the main game with willing participants putting up their hands for selection.
Quick Hands, Inside Shoulder, It Is What It Is, Former Flanker
Tavytoo, Boof, Gregor, Azzuri
Lincoln and Providence are also there.

Kickoff sees QH take the ball and make good ground before being tackled by Boof. QH gets the ball away to Former Flanker in a smart offload. Boof comes in again and makes a good tackle supported by Tavytoo. The game is flowing well with Lincoln and Providence entering the fray however they appear uncertain as to which side they should play for having turned up after the start of play.

This is of little concern as QH, IS and IIWII are discussing the type and size of the uniform as they run on.
Tavytoo grabs the pill and runs straight at IS who resolutely holds his ground, Providence comes in late and QH gives him a clip up the side of the head. Things are starting to deteriorate.
Tavytoo has broken the tackle of IS and run into QH who manages to hold on. IS gets up to rejoin the defensive line however is knocked over in backplay by Azzuri and Gregor looming in support of Tavytoo.

This causes an all in brawl and the referee with the Huge Arse comes in to break it up and get the players back on the game. There are to be no more late tackles, eye pokes or squirrel gripping or they will be yellow carded.

Boof and Azzuri continue to niggle IS however both teams pause to congratulate Azzuri on the 4,500 post on this thread which is indicative of the time frame of this game. QH likes this.

Score at this stage - Nil All
Best Players – Cannot be determined at this stage.

The Game continues into the evening with the background music of Hotel California.
“You can check out any time you want but you can never leave …..”

Best post I've read for a while.

Love the idea of making deft offloads and hanging on grimly in the tackle. I'm sure Providence is a nice chap, wouldn't even dream of giving him a clip over the ear (even in my prime)