School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[cyclopath]

If you send your son to a GPS school for HSC results alone.... you have completly missed the mark...

If you pay $30K a year and they get poorly educated, the school might be missing the mark. People seek many different things from these schools, and I think a rapid decline in a measurable outcome should be cause for at least discussion, if not concern.

 

[Oranges]

If you send your son to a GPS school for HSC results alone.... you have completly missed the mark...

Interest for me from this chart is that I can only recognize 2 country schools that rank above any of the GPS schools. One of those only had 38 students sitting the HSC.

 

[I like to watch]

That wasn't my point at all. I'm just saying there is a trade off involved in these things. If a school chooses to focus on one area in particular, it is likely that you will see an improvement in that area which will probably result in a decline in other areas. There are only so many boys who are good at sport and academic, so if you are enrolling boys with a sporting focus then your academic results will tend to fall and vice versa.
Just one of the things that we look at when choosing schools for our children and we all have different views and priorities.

What if the paying customers concentrate on the academic,and the ring in's concentrate on the sport.
To ensure the ring in's don't muddy the waters,they don't actually get educated in the same manner,and only sit exams that are not measured.
Isn't that the best of both worlds?
(Except for the ring in's)

 

[BeastieBoy]

Sometimes its nice to just stroke the ego a little regardless of how it looks to others. There is no logical answer, it's purely ego. Some of these schools have never come to terms with the fact that a Catholic school in particular has dominated them for so long in the manliest of games and finally they have found a way to counter that by bringing kids in. It's just ego is all.

 

[BeastieBoy]

They do it because having a successful rugby programme attracts parents who want their sons to be successful rugby players to the school. I sent my son there for that reason and because of the option for rowing. The headmaster was new at the time and he promised to turn the academics around. Once there the reality is very different. The effort put into the boys is minimal. If you want to achieve you have to get your skills with outside coaching. You then find scholarship boys appearing in years 6 and 7 competing for your sons spot. You know around then that only one or two of the A's are going to make it in the opens as they bring more in. We now know the academics will never improve as they dont have the management skill for it. So you start weighing heavily into tutors. The 30k bill you are now paying for your primary age boy is now 40k+ But where do you go? To get into shore you have to book in at conception. So you feel stuck.

 

[BeastieBoy]

They do it because having a successful rugby programme attracts parents who want their sons to be successful rugby players to the school. I sent my son there for that reason and because of the option for rowing. The headmaster was new at the time and he promised to turn the academics around. Once there the reality is very different. The effort put into the boys is minimal. If you want to achieve you have to get your skills with outside coaching. You then find scholarship boys appearing in years 6 and 7 competing for your sons spot. You know around then that only one or two of the A's are going to make it in the opens as they bring more in. We now know the academics will never improve as they dont have the management skill for it. So you start weighing heavily into tutors. The 30k bill you are now paying for your primary age boy is now 40k+ But where do you go? To get into shore you have to book in at conception. So you feel stuck.

 

[BeastieBoy]

The reality will not set in for most untill there boy is shunted into the B's Conversley, you want your boy to play with and against the best to pick up the better habits. If he is still there in the 16A the professionalism markedly increases in the coaching, diet and training management. Because of the results of the school they are a pathway to representative teams. We know that it's not enough to be talented. You need to be recognized at 15s or 16s to get there and be on a pathway. Now I know someone said in a earlier page that statistically it is unlikely that they will go on to super15s etc. well you give it a go and train your kid within your budgetrey constraints. If that means they were pink headgear to get noticed well some do to get that initial scholarship and I can't blame them, though it's not for me. Then if you are shunted and you have gone as far as you can well hopefully your boy ends up with mates in a club side somewhere.

 

[lincoln]

The reality will not set in for most untill there boy is shunted into the B's Conversley, you want your boy to play with and against the best to pick up the better habits. If he is still there in the 16A the professionalism markedly increases in the coaching, diet and training management. Because of the results of the school they are a pathway to representative teams. We know that it's not enough to be talented. You need to be recognized at 15s or 16s to get there and be on a pathway. Now I know someone said in a earlier page that statistically it is unlikely that they will go on to super15s etc. well you give it a go and train your kid within your budgetrey constraints. If that means they were pink headgear to get noticed well some do to get that initial scholarship and I can't blame them, though it's not for me. Then if you are shunted and you have gone as far as you can well hopefully your boy ends up with mates in a club side somewhere.

Mate, change schools now and send him down the road for a more holistic education. Esse quam videre!
ps he might slip into the 1sts - a nice personal achievement on the road to life

 

[lincoln]

The reality will not set in for most untill there boy is shunted into the B's Conversley, you want your boy to play with and against the best to pick up the better habits. If he is still there in the 16A the professionalism markedly increases in the coaching, diet and training management. Because of the results of the school they are a pathway to representative teams. We know that it's not enough to be talented. You need to be recognized at 15s or 16s to get there and be on a pathway. Now I know someone said in a earlier page that statistically it is unlikely that they will go on to super15s etc. well you give it a go and train your kid within your budgetrey constraints. If that means they were pink headgear to get noticed well some do to get that initial scholarship and I can't blame them, though it's not for me. Then if you are shunted and you have gone as far as you can well hopefully your boy ends up with mates in a club side somewhere.

Very scary shit - have lived through a very intense programme at another school but this sounds a little too much for schoolboys.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

They do it because having a successful rugby programme attracts parents who want their sons to be successful rugby players to the school. I sent my son there for that reason and because of the option for rowing. The headmaster was new at the time and he promised to turn the academics around. Once there the reality is very different. The effort put into the boys is minimal. If you want to achieve you have to get your skills with outside coaching. You then find scholarship boys appearing in years 6 and 7 competing for your sons spot. You know around then that only one or two of the A's are going to make it in the opens as they bring more in. We now know the academics will never improve as they dont have the management skill for it. So you start weighing heavily into tutors. The 30k bill you are now paying for your primary age boy is now 40k+ But where do you go? To get into shore you have to book in at conception. So you feel stuck.

Do/did many other parents at the school feel disgruntled about this?
I'm with lincoln on changing schools.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Up on the Karakoram (circa 7000 metres ASL) in the disputed Kashmir territory between India and Pakistan the high altitude plays havoc with the ballistics of the soldiers, snipers and artillerymen intent on killing each other.

It is useful to understand how projectiles work at high altitudes.

I think the major issue lie in that they couldnt hit the arse of a cow with a shovel at ground level... And if they shoot at someone, that means they might get someone shooting back at them. They don't like that, so they fire off a couple of rounds ever so often to pick up military aid from whomever is contributing ATM.

 

[Brian Westlake]

In addition to PE or whatever it is now called?

World domination takes practice IS... Get with the programme.

 

[Freddo Frog]

They do it because having a successful rugby programme attracts parents who want their sons to be successful rugby players to the school. I sent my son there for that reason and because of the option for rowing. The headmaster was new at the time and he promised to turn the academics around. Once there the reality is very different. The effort put into the boys is minimal. If you want to achieve you have to get your skills with outside coaching. You then find scholarship boys appearing in years 6 and 7 competing for your sons spot. You know around then that only one or two of the A's are going to make it in the opens as they bring more in. We now know the academics will never improve as they dont have the management skill for it. So you start weighing heavily into tutors. The 30k bill you are now paying for your primary age boy is now 40k+ But where do you go? To get into shore you have to book in at conception. So you feel stuck.

Wow, your sense of entitlement for your son is amazing. So your little Oliver managed a spot in the 10 or 11A's but was dropped later in primary, or once the new influx arrived in Yr 7? Who all MUST be on scholarships because, you know, an fee-paying kid couldn't possibly be good enough to displace little Ollie. And his grades aren't going too well either, and that's all the school's fault too, right?

Jesus. Maybe, just maybe, little Oliver actually needs to work his butt off to improve his skills in both the sporting arena and the classroom. You've sent him to a particular school for its rugby program, so while he's there how about he makes the most of it. Most schools I've come across have extra strength training sessions in the gym before or after school, plus skills sessions at least once a week for boys who are keen.
On the academic side I bet they have subject-specific tutoring sessions before or after school or at lunch, so instead of moaning about how the school has let you down, how about your boy takes advantage of what's a available and work his arse off to regain the spot that these kids who dared to arrive in Yr 6 or 7 "took" from him? And last time I checked, effort and application was the key determining factor in academic success. If he works hard, the geography isn't that important.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Wow, your sense of entitlement for your son is amazing. So your little Oliver managed a spot in the 10 or 11A's but was dropped later in primary, or once the new influx arrived in Yr 7? Who all MUST be on scholarships because, you know, an fee-paying kid couldn't possibly be good enough to displace little Ollie. And his grades aren't going too well either, and that's all the school's fault too, right?

Jesus. Maybe, just maybe, little Oliver actually needs to work his butt off to improve his skills in both the sporting arena and the classroom. You've sent him to a particular school for its rugby program, so while he's there how about he makes the most of it. Most schools I've come across have extra strength training sessions in the gym before or after school, plus skills sessions at least once a week for boys who are keen.
On the academic side I bet they have subject-specific tutoring sessions before or after school or at lunch, so instead of moaning about how the school has let you down, how about your boy takes advantage of what's a available and work his arse off to regain the spot that these kids who dared to arrive in Yr 6 or 7 "took" from him? And last time I checked, effort and application was the key determining factor in academic success. If he works hard, the geography isn't that important.

Sense of entitlement?
I would call it seeking to get your money's worth.
Taking your assumptions entails that the school have not developed his as a rugby player or a scholar.

 

[cyclopath]

Freddo Frog I agree nobody should expect their child progress to any particular end point without hard work, but the OP wasn't whining about that per se, more the other processes going on, or not going on, in the school. Don't need to make it so personal.

 

[Vegas]

I have been reading this thread for a while, and something has been annoying me, and I haven't been able to put my finger on it until now.


Can someone please help me, a simple man, with a simple answer -
what is in it for the school !!!

OK - its only early, but I am starting to see a pattern - absolute bedlam and confusion - the current scholarship practices are " all over the shop like a mad woman's breakfast ". On one side of the discussion, we have -

• a few people not really sure why the schools do it
• disgruntled parents and disenfranchised students
• a pattern of receding academic outcomes
• a suggestion for boys at the school on scholarships not to sit the mainstream exams, and
• a proposal that " skoolin' aint necessarily about skoolin' "

Conversely, we have -

• a pay-back for some deep-rooted Catholics vs the world anxiety , which probably stems back to the Angles, Saxons and Jutes ( yes IS and BW - world domination can be very time-consuming !)
• it's purely ego, and the schools do it because it's just nice to stroke the ego a little regardless of how it looks to others ( shit that ego must get bruised when the punt doesnt pay off and the best schoolboy team that money can buy doesnt win the flag !! )

Lets keep this going - I would like to hear more opinions, because I still have no idea - what's in it for the schools ??

All of you posters who have fervently defended your own schools - that is great, it is what makes schoolboy rugby such a great institution, and what makes this discussion so passionate - take a step back, and in that passion for your school, ask the question why does my school do this - what is in it for the school ??

 

[Freddo Frog]

Freddo Frog I agree nobody should expect their child progress to any particular end point without hard work, but the OP wasn't whining about that per se, more the other processes going on, or not going on, in the school. Don't need to make it so personal.

I apologise for getting personal, this topic gets me hot under the collar.

However I must disagree that the poster wasn't whinging per se. He stated that "the effort put into the boys is minimal", and that to achieve anything you need to access outside coaching and tutoring. My point was that every private school (and I'm sure public as well but this post was regarding private schools) offers the facilities and guidance, be it teaching or coaching, for every student to improve. But, stating the obvious here, the students themselves have to work bloody hard and put the required effort and time into accessing these facilities and guidance. And that doesn't neccessarily mean he'll be making it into the advanced classes or the top team. It's about the boy making the most of the opportunities available to him, and busting his gut to achieve his best. It's not about parents paying their 30 grand and expecting it all to just happen.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

• a pay-back for some deep-rooted Catholics vs the world anxiety , which probably stems back to the Angles, Saxons and Jutes ( yes IS and BW - world domination can be very time-consuming !)
• it's purely ego, and the schools do it because it's just nice to stroke the ego a little regardless of how it looks to others ( shit that ego must get bruised when the punt doesnt pay off and the best schoolboy team that money can buy doesnt win the flag !! )

Lets keep this going - I would like to hear more opinions, because I still have no idea - what's in it for the schools ??

All of you posters who have fervently defended your own schools - that is great, it is what makes schoolboy rugby such a great institution, and what makes this discussion so passionate - take a step back, and in that passion for your school, ask the question why does my school do this - what is in it for the school ??

I think there are 2 not entirely unrelated motivations and 3rd unrelated one:

1. Enrolments
2. Old Boys
3. A search for relevance

As someone has said in this thread already one of the schools was not completely full, they've pursued a rugby led recover and they're now chockers.

Even at a school like Grammar many old boys complain about the lack of premiership success and many who did not even play rugby complain about weakness in rugby.

Rugby is seen as the game one has to understand and embrace to get ahead in the man's world in Sydney, at least. Being good at rugby is a way for a school to be seen as connected to the movers and shakers.

 

[Brian Westlake]

I think there are 2 not entirely unrelated motivations and 3rd unrelated one:

1. Enrolments
2. Old Boys
3. A search for relevance

As someone has said in this thread already one of the schools was not completely full, they've pursued a rugby led recover and they're now chockers.

Even at a school like Grammar many old boys complain about the lack of premiership success and many who did not even play rugby complain about weakness in rugby.

Rugby is seen as the game one has to understand and embrace to get ahead in the man's world in Sydney, at least. Being good at rugby is a way for a school to be seen as connected to the movers and shakers.

The last paragraph does hold water IS. I can guarantee that the Westlake boys have benefitted from both being "not bad" Rugby players. IMHO they both would not have been offered the positions they fill, part time, whilst studying and playing.
The Westlake name will only carry them so far ( not very ) and with the oldest now on his Masters, his part time employment is with a rugby mad guy who appreciates the balance and is more than lenient to training etc. To this I am eternally grateful, because it means that he is self supportive.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The last paragraph does hold water IS. I can guarantee that the Westlake boys have benefitted from both being "not bad" Rugby players. IMHO they both would not have been offered the positions they fill, part time, whilst studying and playing.
The Westlake name will only carry them so far ( not very ) and with the oldest now on his Masters, his part time employment is with a rugby mad guy who appreciates the balance and is more than lenient to training etc. To this I am eternally grateful, because it means that he is self supportive.

Aha - but if their surname truly was Westlake they'd be set for life