School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[redatheart]

In my opinion, I would rate Perth private school rugby competition at about GPS 3rd-4thXV standard. Coaching and Ref's to match. Most 'GPS' schools in Perth would have about 7 -9 teams in high school, roughly one team per group. Mind you, their 3rdXVIII would probably paste the Sydney and Brisbane Oz rules firsts. Its why the Force have remained the worst Oz conference - they dont have the local environment, and cant develop it. It is an apparent co-incidence that another Perth boy joined Aran at Nudgee.

 

[Vegas]

Sorry about continuing a scholarship discussion in this thread but there are few disputable assumptions here, and some very poor maths: a subsidized student (50% is apparently the GPS maximum)is no loss of fees unless they are replacing a full fee paying student. If a school is not at absolute full capacity there is no loss of fees. I really think we need to build a bridge and get over this. Each school has a board and old boys that the principal answers to- in most cases they are very good judges of what's best for the school. Let's stick to rugby- or get on the board.

Apologies Coogee Boy for upsetting you, but I think you are both wrong, and have missed the point. Yes, the Rugby in the Qld GPS Comp this year is as good as I have seen it - at least since the whole "arms race" as it has been called, commenced a few years ago ( maybe even the best schoolboy rugby money can buy !! ) ..... however -

• You are correct in part - There are boys on 50% remittance of fees, but it is in no way the max - there are plenty of instances of boys having full tuition, and board in some cases, remitted.
• Its not about schools being at full capacity - from what I have witnessed, and this may not be applicable across every school, schools are at capacity, but are creating places for these boys - its not " we have room for 5 boys", rather " we need 2 props, a loosey, a 10 and an outside back - lets go and find them. "
• Maths was never my strong point, but I cant follow yours - if a school has the capacity to raise this extra money, is investing it in a short term punt on a rugby premiership the best place to invest it ? If a boy is 50% subdisized, the other 50% needs to come from somewhere .
• Where I think you have missed the point is that this is all arse around, and about short term rugby glory rather than any real long term school benefit - it is challenging the foundations that these schools were built on, and is alienating and disenfranchising the existing student and parent body - just hang around the crowds on a saturday to listen to the angst amongst these groups.
• "a subsidized student (50% is apparently the GPS maximum) is no loss of fees unless they are replacing a full fee paying student " - No - not if that money could better spent, and not if that subdisized student doesnt give a rats arse about the whole school experience - not just the rugby season.

 

[Rumble]

Has anyone heard any rumours of new boys (scholarships) at any CAS schools?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^be very very careful with naming names, especially if these are based on rumour and heresay.

By all means get stuck into the schools that are participating in the arms race, contrary to their association rules/code, but be absolutely sure of all the facts before naming names.

Kids change schools for all sorts of reasons, not always due to inducements from the School or their Rugby Support programme.

 

[Benched '84]

I've got no doubt that the amount of money supposedly being paid to the "professional " coach at Knox, and their poor result this year, may encourage him to look at all the options. Highly paid professional coaching is a cancer to the schoolboy game!!

 

[FlashFlanker]

Absolutely agree Huge. The number of grandparents nominated in this thread as funding kids travelling long distances to board at private schools involving fees of $90K+ over three years - I would love to have had grandparents with that sort of money wondering what to do with it. My parents had to fund every last cent and I'm now doing the same. But I just wish people could be a little less secretive about how boys show up out of the blue (as you say often for good reason). Scholarships per se are not bad. The "badness" is when it turns into a form of selective population migration. Some of the schools sound like the USA in the first half of the last Century "Bring me your poor, bring me your needy, but can you please confirm their rugby credentials".

Even in the Scottish clearances of the mid-1800s, people were resettled in Australia and elsewhere in the world with their travel costs paid for by someone in their new country, for whom they needed to work for a specified period. Many of these people had new opportunities opened up for them as a result and made a very good life. Win - Win.

Its only rugby. Hopefully the boys who receive the educational opportunities from whatever source make the most of it because very few make their fortune in rugby.

 

[Quick Hands]

Highly paid professional coaching is a cancer to the schoolboy game!!

In less than a generation we have seen schoolboy rugby go from being the ordinary students enrolled at the school coached by ordinary teachers employed at the school to the current situation, where many students are enrolled to play rugby and teachers and even non-teachers are employed to coach rugby. It tends to devalue the whole esprit de corps of the school community. Part of the value of school sport is the establishment of relationships between teachers and students outside of the classroom environment.

 

[Vegas]

In less than a generation we have seen schoolboy rugby go from being the ordinary students enrolled at the school coached by ordinary teachers employed at the school to the current situation, where many students are enrolled to play rugby and teachers and even non-teachers are employed to coach rugby. It tends to devalue the whole esprit de corps of the school community. Part of the value of school sport is the establishment of relationships between teachers and students outside of the classroom environment.

Agree QH - priorities seem to be arse-around, and the schools forgetting what decades of tradition means to them and why parents make the enormous decision to actually pay the fees to them for .... all for a short term punt for momentary glory - if at all - but the risk for longer term damage .

 

[Quick Hands]

Agree QH - priorities seem to be arse-around, and the schools forgetting what decades of tradition means to them and why parents make the enormous decision to actually pay the fees to them for .. all for a short term punt for momentary glory - if at all - but the risk for longer term damage .

The pursuit of transitory glory has brought ruin throughout human history.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ But yet we still do it.

A bit like Inside Shoulder has said with the old hands in the ruck issue. We all know we shouldn't do it, but yet we do.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^ But yet we still do it.

A bit like Inside Shoulder has said with the old hands in the ruck issue. We all know we shouldn't do it, but yet we do.

That's human nature I guess, which is why we need someone to give us the proberbial kick up the backside when we lose perspective and get it wrong.

 

[Brissierugby]

On a slightly different point, I am unsure how the tertiary entrance process works in the NSW schools, but out of interest, has anyone in Queensland enquired of the schools how these import, or mercenary, or scholarship programmes - call them what you will - impact the schools' overall academic performance ?

Queensland students sit the QCS Test to determine relativities between the schools, which then influence OP score outcomes. I can't imagine that any of these boys who are parachuted in for one or two years ( or even terms as it appears to be the case up here now ) for the sole purpose of winning a rugby premiership, and are minimally engaged in the broader fabric , let alone academic outcomes of the school, could do anything but drag down the performance of the rest of the student body of that year.

I am just interested if anyone has heard anything, as i was listening to some parents discuss the very topic on the weekend, suggesting grounds for potential legal recourse should the schools' academic performance, and by process, that of their sons, be impacted by these scholarship programmes ??

They simply do non-op subjects or do what is reffered to as a 'rank' subject. This means they do not have to sit the QCS test at all and therefore do not effect the academic position of the school.

Some students elect to do grade 12 over two years, allowing them to cope with the work load of playing rugby and having a good academic outlook. If this is the case they will then sit the QCS test if they want an OP score.

 

[Vegas]

They simply do non-op subjects or do what is reffered to as a 'rank' subject. This means they do not have to sit the QCS test at all and therefore do not effect the academic position of the school.

Some students elect to do grade 12 over two years, allowing them to cope with the work load of playing rugby and having a good academic outlook. If this is the case they will then sit the QCS test if they want an OP score.

Thanks BrissieRugby.
Isnt that a sad indictment on where this whole situation has gotten to - Go to school and learn in two years what is supposed to be done in one so that you can spend the school week doing what traditionally should be done after school and on weekends ! The priorities are truly screwed up !
This whole scholarship debacle is to the GPS schooling system what myxomatosis was to rabbits !

 

[Brian Westlake]

Thanks BrissieRugby.
Isnt that a sad indictment on where this whole situation has gotten to - Go to school and learn in two years what is supposed to be done in one so that you can spend the school week doing what traditionally should be done after school and on weekends ! The priorities are truly screwed up !
This whole scholarship debacle is to the GPS schooling system what myxomatosis was to rabbits !

I honestly think that you have encapsulated 110 pages of crap and counter crap into your last sentence Vegas. Can we please forward this to the powers that be? You can hear the cringing already.

 

[Quick Hands]

For the best explanation as to why these scholarships are wrong folow the link below from the Shore website.
Written by Headmaster Dr Wright. He articulates all the issues perfectly.
Scroll about half way down the page.

http://www.shore.nsw.edu.au/enrolment/scholarships/scholarships-general-info

 

[Inside Shoulder]

For the best explanation as to why these scholarships are wrong folow the link below from the Shore website.
Written by Headmaster Dr Wright. He articulates all the issues perfectly.
Scroll about half way down the page.

http://www.shore.nsw.edu.au/enrolment/scholarships/scholarships-general-info

Says it all but judging by the naysayers only the converted are hearing him.

 

[beserker]

Well, if that's the best explanation, we may have a problem. Why should rugby be any less deserving than music? If I miss out on getting into the school string quartet, then I'd feel pretty bad. At least with rugby I can work on my game and get back up into the grade I want to play at. Each school should try and have at least their 1's play with a game plan that they can execute. If a school has players that can do that then clearly they'd be wasting their money to buy elsewhere. Let's face it, cricket has died in the arse at GPS schools - just compare the no of teams with basketball. Let's keep GPS rugby at a great standard and dispense with the sanctimonious attitude.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Why should rugby be any less deserving than music?

I may be wrong but the last time I checked you couldn't do rugby for the HSC or the IB.
Happy to be corrected.

 

[I like to watch]

Well, if that's the best explanation, we may have a problem. Why should rugby be any less deserving than music? If I miss out on getting into the school string quartet, then I'd feel pretty bad. At least with rugby I can work on my game and get back up into the grade I want to play at. Each school should try and have at least their 1's play with a game plan that they can execute. If a school has players that can do that then clearly they'd be wasting their money to buy elsewhere. Let's face it, cricket has died in the arse at GPS schools - just compare the no of teams with basketball. Let's keep GPS rugby at a great standard and dispense with the sanctimonious attitude.

How many Schools bring in gun violinists in yr 11 and drop their "home grown " musicians, to make room for the imports.
How many music scholarships are awarded,that are not listed on their websites,and are not open for anyone to apply for?
How many music scholars do not even bother getting an ATAR?

 

[beserker]

I may be wrong but the last time I checked you couldn't do rugby for the HSC or the IB.

Happy to be corrected.

I think it's called PDHPE