Samoa to file for bankruptcy

[Braveheart81]

World Rugby anticipates that the number of tests between Tier 1 and Tier 2 nations will increase following the introduction of the global calendar which is certainly good if it comes to fruition.

World Rugby could stipulate that as part of the funding agreement to Tier 1 nations in RWC years that they have to play 1 away test against a Tier 2 nation each year (or a home test with a fair revenue sharing arrangement).

 

[Spieber]

Interesting interview with Dan Leo on this topic.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/22-10-2017/dispelling-the-myth-of-poaching-in-pacific-island-rugby/

 

[Highlander35]

Fundamentally I'm not opposed to a revenue sharing model. But call it parochial, it's not something I feel particularly sad about for anyone bar the PIs.

Firstly, it always seems like an attempt by the big Southern Unions to get the 6 Nations Union's to financially subsidise them: smuggled in under faux concern for the PI nations, when I'd guess that all of the Northern Unions host more games with PI Nations than the RC Nations: nothing is stopping you from revenue sharing with them now.

And Northern Hemisphere Unions have typically undertaken the large financial investment to own their stadia and population aside, that represents a significant part of the disparity between the two sets of Fully Pro Unions. Undertake that financial investment and reap the rewards yourself.

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[Dan54]

Yep I agree Highlander, but also agree if you got something that the punter will pay for, you should attempt to get a piece of the pie. You can also have huge Stadia, if the ABs/Boks etc don't come and play you in them, they tend not to make as much money. Sp perhaps it does work both ways up to a point

 

[Derpus]

Fundamentally I'm not opposed to a revenue sharing model. But call it parochial, it's not something I feel particularly sad about for anyone bar the PIs.

Firstly, it always seems like an attempt by the big Southern Unions to get the 6 Nations Union's to financially subsidise them: smuggled in under faux concern for the PI nations, when I'd guess that all of the Northern Unions host more games with PI Nations than the RC Nations: nothing is stopping you from revenue sharing with them now.

And Northern Hemisphere Unions have typically undertaken the large financial investment to own their stadia and population aside, that represents a significant part of the disparity between the two sets of Fully Pro Unions. Undertake that financial investment and reap the rewards yourself.

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Well, in Australia's case, we aren't that far off from falling into the same boat as the Pacific Islanders. Our union is going broke and more and more of our players are leaving for Europe....... So, maybe it is an attempt to secure some financial subsidy? But so what? Is it unacceptable because we have a more developed economy in general? I loathe what England (and Spain and Italy etc.) have done to Football (Soccer) with a passion. It's disgraceful. Anything that evens the playing field out for rugby is better than that steaming pile of commercialized turd.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It also gets complicated when you consider the situations of the individual players.

Most people look at the capping of Naiyaravoro and Nabuli for example as selfish decisions by Australian Rugby because it locks them into Australia even though they might not play more tests.

From those players' perspectives, getting capped is potentially a huge boost for their long term life plans.

If they get capped for Fiji etc. there is a strong likelihood that they will no longer be able to play Super Rugby for an Australian side and will have to head to Europe. If they are not an Australian citizen it may scupper their chances of returning here to live, particularly in the current climate.

If they get capped for Australia they can play Super Rugby in Australia, almost certainly have a clear path to becoming a citizen and also have the option of playing overseas and returning to Australia to live later on.

It's by no means a simple issue.

Yep example is ed fidlow (I think that his name and spelling) who has been carving it up in the nrc but won't get a super rugby contract as represented Samoa in 7's.


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[wamberal]

It also gets complicated when you consider the situations of the individual players.



It's by no means a simple issue.

Oh, yes it is. It all comes down to money.


Any ordinary family in Tonga which does not have at least one member working overseas (New Zealand being the likeliest destination) is living in desperate poverty. I would imagine the situation is similar in Samoa. The standard of living in Fiji is a bit better, I think, thanks in some measure to the fact that the Fijians own the land, and the ethnic Indians pay rent.

 

[TOCC]

Yep example is ed fidlow (I think that his name and spelling) who has been carving it up in the nrc but won't get a super rugby contract as represented Samoa in 7's.


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But he has earned himself a contract in France with Bordeaux

 

[Braveheart81]

Oh, yes it is. It all comes down to money.


Any ordinary family in Tonga which does not have at least one member working overseas (New Zealand being the likeliest destination) is living in desperate poverty. I would imagine the situation is similar in Samoa. The standard of living in Fiji is a bit better, I think, thanks in some measure to the fact that the Fijians own the land, and the ethnic Indians pay rent.

Well I don't think it does entirely. That player like Taqele Naiyaravoro or Eto Nabuli might make more money over their career if they decide they will play in Europe throughout their career and play for Fiji compared to playing a couple of tests in Australia and playing Super Rugby.

Being able to settle in Australia permanently is clearly appealing.

Deciding to play for one of the Pacific Islands clearly doesn't involve spending your life living in that country. There's no professional rugby career there.

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[wamberal]

I suppose my frame of reference is a bit wider, I had in my mind the many hundreds, maybe thousands of kids who migrate to play at the lower levels of rugby and its inferior relative.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

But he has earned himself a contrac t in France with Bordeaux

Yep that is where was always going to end up - French Rugby.

 

[TOCC]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/internatio...-public-urged-to-help-broke-samoa-rugby-union

Samoa Rugby Union officially bankrupt


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[stoff]

This will be interesting with them due to play three tests in the next three weeks. I could see Scotland and England covering costs to ensure they get their matches as their losses in not providing the matches would be huge. Not so sure how Romania will go though.


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[Rugbynutter39]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/internatio...-public-urged-to-help-broke-samoa-rugby-union

Samoa Rugby Union officially bankrupt


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https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/11/08/rfu-samoa-finance So goodwill payment made by RFU of $75,000 pounds to Samoa Rugby whilst some of England Pacific island born players trying to encourage their team to give some of their match fee to Samoan rugby players (nice). This really does need to be sorted out as poorer and smaller rugby nations like Tonga, Fiji, Samoa etc who will generally never host home tests need to be given some of gate revenue for games played in Northern Hemisphere. Given what they add to the game and crowds they bring in for these games it just seems incredibly wrong the disparity in not having any gate revenues given to them (say 10%). I understand this is complex but it needs to be worked out to better protect and support the smaller rugby nations who add so much to rugby like the Pacific Island countries do.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/11/08/rfu-samoa-finance So goodwill payment made by RFU of $75,000 pounds to Samoa Rugby whilst some of England Pacific island born players trying to encourage their team to give some of their match fee to Samoan rugby players (nice). This really does need to be sorted out as poorer and smaller rugby nations like Tonga, Fiji, Samoa etc who will generally never host home tests need to be given some of gate revenue for games played in Northern Hemisphere. Given what they add to the game and crowds they bring in for these games it just seems incredibly wrong the disparity in not having any gate revenues given to them (say 10%). I understand this is complex but it needs to be worked out to better protect and support the smaller rugby nations who add so much to rugby like the Pacific Island countries do.

But equally below - any funding needs to come with agreed governance and controls over this money to ensure no misappropriation of funds (refer extract below) ------------------------------- During the last Rugby World Cup cycle, World Rugby invested £17m into Pacific Island rugby through direct and indirect funding, although there remain concerns about the quality of the governance and the misappropriation of funds. Malielegao has accused World Rugby with interfering in its choice of head coach.

 

[Killer]

But equally below - any funding needs to come with agreed governance and controls over this money to ensure no misappropriation of funds (refer extract below) ------------------------------- During the last Rugby World Cup cycle, World Rugby invested £17m into Pacific Island rugby through direct and indirect funding, although there remain concerns about the quality of the governance and the misappropriation of funds. Malielegao has accused World Rugby with interfering in its choice of head coach.

I think we need to get our own house in order before we start telling them what to do. I think if that oversight is what we want for them we should ask for it too. Where has that 40m increase in Broadcasting revenue gone. Where would we be without it, in fact what have we put in place to deal with possibly losing it in 2020? No one at the ARU can even answer a straight financial question at the Senate enquiry.

 

[TOCC]

It wouldn’t be Australian Rugby providing governance oversight, it would be World Rugby.. and it’s certainly a requirement if World Rugby are to provide any more funding to Samoan Rugby.


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[Killer]

It wouldn’t be Australian Rugby providing governance oversight, it would be World Rugby.. and it’s certainly a requirement if World Rugby are to provide any more funding to Samoan Rugby.


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That's what I was saying, we should request it too.

 

[Derpus]

That's what I was saying, we should request it too.

That would only make sense if we were asking for a handout which we can't justify. It's one thing for an impoverished nation who regularly get plundered for talent to ask for funds after declaring bankruptcy. It's quite another for a wealthy nation who have largely created their own strife through serious mismanagement to ask for someone else's money to prop them up.

 

[Killer]

That would only make sense if we were asking for a handout which we can't justify. It's one thing for an impoverished nation who regularly get plundered for talent to ask for funds after declaring bankruptcy. It's quite another for a wealthy nation who have largely created their own strife through serious mismanagement to ask for someone else's money to prop them up.

Yes my comment was tongue in cheek but with relevance. Do we have a plan or is it a "hope trade" in ref to 2020. If the hope doesn't come through is our plan to ask our Govt for a bailout or maybe approach Twiggy? If we don't have a plan in place, which we probably don't seeing as there is no decrease in funds to the Super clubs, I suggest we need financial advice and oversight.