Saffa's have a go at our scrums

[RugbyReg]

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2381442.htm

The Australian Rugby Union were great proponents of law changes in the interests of making the game more entertainment to help them in their battle for support against Australian Rules, Rugby League and soccer. It is ironical that the two least entertaining teams in the Super 14 are Australian teams - the Brumbies and the Waratahs.

Those two teams met on Saturday and provided proof of their reluctance to entertain. Just one aspect of the match is worth looking at.

At the start of the Super 14 certain aspects of the game were emphasised. One of them was scrumming. The authorities also announced that teams failing to comply would receive a letter and if they continued with noncompliance the would receive a public rebuke.

In the match at AZ Stadium in Sydney there were 18 scrums. There were 17 collapses, 7 resets, 7 penalties and 2 free kicks.

That's a mess.

The team found most at fault were the Brumbies for they were freekicked twice and penalised six times at scrums. In the second half the Brumbies were penalised six times - five times at scrums. Four of those five penalties were against Ben Alexander. One wonders what repeated infringement is!

Perhaps the excuse was the weather. Sydney was damp on Saturday.

So was Dunedin when the Highlanders played the Hurricanes.

Scrums: 25; 2 resets; 3 collapses; 1 free kick.

Stack that up against Sydney when the Waratahs played the Brumbies:

Scrums: 18; 7 resets; 17 collapses; 7 penalties; 2 free kicks.

Perhaps it was the playing surface. After all few playing surfaces in the world are as good as Carisbrook's.

Compare Pretoria - wet and a surface that cut up because it was being prepared as a venue for the soccer World Cup when the Bulls played the Lions.

Scrums: 14; 1 reset, 0 collapses; 1 penalty; 1 free kick

Here is a list so that comparisons cane be made:

Chiefs vs Cheetahs: 22 scrums; 2 resets; 4 collapses; 1 penalty; 1 free kick
Western Force vs Crusaders: 20 scrums; 2 resets; 6 collapses; 1 penalty; 3 free kicks
Reds vs Stormers: 17 scrums; 2 resets; 4 collapses; 1 penalty; 1 free kick
Highlanders vs Hurricanes: 25 Scrums; 2 resets; 3 collapses; 1 free kick
Bulls vs Lions: 14 Scrums; 1 reset, 0 collapses; 1 penalty; 1 free kick
Sharks vs Blues: 16 scrums; 3 resets; 4 collapses; 1 penalty; 1 free kick

Totals: 114 scrums; 12 resets; 20 collapses; 5 penalties; 8 free kicks
Percentages: 10,5% resets; 17,5% collapses; 4% penalties; 7% free kicks

Waratahs vs Brumbies:18 scrums; 7 resets; 17 collapses; 7 penalties; 2 free kicks
Percentages: 39% resets; 94% collapses; 39% penalties; 11% free kicks

There is a vast difference.

Now what gets done? Will the teams get a letter telling them to pull up their socks, or will it be only the Brumbies?

The Brumbies were penalised 6 times at scrums - 33% of the scrums.

Of those Ben Alexander was penalised 4 times - 22% of the time.

In the 10 rounds of the Super 14 in 2010, Alexander was penalised 12 times at scrums. That does not sound as if Sydney was a once-off.

We are assured that letters have been sent about bits of noncompliance but this one is way out of line with what is going on in the Super 14.

Will there be public notice of noncompliance?

Action has been taken against three referees and two assistant referees and the action has been made public. Will this happen in the case of this messing up of scrums, spoiling the game, running counter to the Australians' avowed intent to make the game more attractive?

 

[Jethro Tah]

Some valid points but really the writer is just trying to unsettle Alexander in time for the 3N.

 

[RugbyFuture]

well...atleast we arent south africans.....

 

[DPK]

well...atleast we arent south africans.....

Easy there, Panda.

 

[topo]

Is the author of that piece one J Kaplan, by any chance? In fairness to BA he was packing down against ScrumFace Baxter and he has been known to collapse the odd scrum in his day. Just because Alexander got penalised doesn't necessarily mean he was at fault.
The other thing that isn't mentioned in this forensic dissection of the Tahs v Brums scrums was the ref. One of the worst parts of Walsh's reffing, apart from all the senseless chat and a few weird decisions, was his handling of the scrums and especially the distance between the packs.

 

[chief]

Just another media play up. It shouldn't concern anyone in the slightest, South Africa like to deny the happening in its backyard. Read some of Rugby365's articles, although they are quick with the news, the writers have far too much emotion at the time to get the real story. Thankfully, when its proof read by the man in charge, there is some editing in place.

 

[Langthorne]

I think the criticisms should be taken on board. Whilst there may be mitigating circumstances (pitch, wet, referee), the scrums were a total mess. If the article is to be believed, this was not unusual for Ben Alexander - or, if he is being penalised this often, are all the refs getting it wrong?

The problem with public sanctions or reprimands (be it of players or referees) is that teams will use them to gain an advantage (with a referee, or against the reprimanded player ie maybe deliberately collapsing in the hope it will be pinned on the players who transgressed in the past).

 

[RugbyFuture]

well...atleast we arent south africans.....

Easy there, Panda.

sorry, i forgot to say unless you live in st ives or perth...

 

[PaarlBok]

The other thing that isn't mentioned in this forensic dissection of the Tahs v Brums scrums was the ref. One of the worst parts of Walsh's reffing, apart from all the senseless chat and a few weird decisions, was his handling of the scrums and especially the distance between the packs.

Probably the closest. He had problems with handling a few matches scrumming, Chiefs vs Stormers the previous week (the last 10 minutes of that match)and cant remember the exact match when he allowed a penalty try against the Lions, think vs the Hurricanes.

Send him to Balie for some lessons.

 

[Sully]

Now this from Spiro
http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/04/30/waratahs-and-brumbies-are-scrum-bludgers/

After 10 rounds in the tournament, the Waratahs have the worst average scrum completion of 39 per cent. The Brumbies are not much better.

The tournament average is 53 per cent. But when you take the Waratahs and the Brumbies out of the statistics, the average moves out to 57 per cent.

Last Saturday, the two teams excelled themselves in bludging, which is why, perhaps, Walsh’s performance at scrum time received some criticism. The Waratahs and the Brumbies averaged only 20 per cent of their completion: one in five scrums that did not need to be reset.

Across the other six games, the average was 71 per cent, with a low of 63 per cent and a high of 83 per cent.

Looks like a real problem and an old tighthead still causing scrum collapses.

 

[Blue]

well...atleast we arent south africans.....

class there mate, all class.

It's a referee website I don't think anyone expect players to read it

I can't see what part of the article anyone could disagree with

The scrtums were an almighty fuckup in that game.

 

[Blue]

Just another media play up. It shouldn't concern anyone in the slightest, South Africa like to deny the happening in its backyard. Read some of Rugby365's articles, although they are quick with the news, the writers have far too much emotion at the time to get the real story. Thankfully, when its proof read by the man in charge, there is some editing in place.

As do Aussies, Kiwi's the English, the Irish....

Media write for their local readers, not some guy with an Internet connection on the other side of the planet. They do what keeps them their job and that is writing shit the average local schmo wants to read.

I cringe at some of the stuff that gets written about SA, English and other country's rugby in the local media here. The amount of factual incorrectness amazes me but does anyone care? No. The amount of blunders on Fox sports news, the rugby club and other programs that involve international sports is staggering.

Take it all with a pinch of salt fellas.

 

[Scotty]

Yep, nothing much wrong with the article. Walsh may have not handled it well, but he wasn't the reason for all the resets, and obviously not the reason for the collapses.

Fatprop will be in to tell us that the Tahs scrums collapse more because they pack lower and the other teams can't handle it. Well I think they should possibly consider packing a touch higher if, as the statistics appear to show, they are the common factor in scrums needing to be reset.

 

[fatprop]

Yep, nothing much wrong with the article. Walsh may have not handled it well, but he wasn't the reason for all the resets, and obviously not the reason for the collapses.

Fatprop will be in to tell us that the Tahs scrums collapse more because they pack lower and the other teams can't handle it. Well I think they should possibly consider packing a touch higher if, as the statistics appear to show, they are the common factor in scrums needing to be reset.

Well that was sort of the problem to me, both sides as rule pack quite low, on Saturday they were too far apart. That meant when they hit they were either fully extended and unstable; or when Baxter was quicker, BA looked to be pivoting.

Add that to the fact that Baxter hasn't scrummed well for a couple of weeks now and it was just horrible.

Aus scrums collapse more because their goal is to pack low, Bok scrums usually are higher and they generally stand up under pressure.

Walsh's real problem for the game to me was the management of the scrums, he should have required them to pack closer and higher. Instead he kept blaming the hit and requiring resets evenn when the ball was under the 8's feet.

 

[Scotty]

I doubt we will see an article like this during the 3N, particularly if Smit is playing TH for the Boks.

 

[Blue]

I doubt we will see an article like this during the 3N, particularly if Smit is playing TH for the Boks.

Smit is likely to start the game at LH and move to TH.

Robinson will have the wood on anyone packing at 3 for the Boks unless BJ Botha comes back this year which is unlikely.

But I take your point.

 

[topo]

Well that was sort of the problem to me, both sides as rule pack quite low, on Saturday they were too far apart. That meant when they hit they were either fully extended and unstable; or when Baxter was quicker, BA looked to be pivoting.

Add that to the fact that Baxter hasn't scrummed well for a couple of weeks now and it was just horrible.

Aus scrums collapse more because their goal is to pack low, Bok scrums usually are higher and they generally stand up under pressure.

Walsh's real problem for the game to me was the management of the scrums, he should have required them to pack closer and higher. Instead he kept blaming the hit and requiring resets evenn when the ball was under the 8's feet.

That's it in a nutshell FP. Couldn't agree more.