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potogold
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in what way are ireland justifiably ranked 8th quoting riptide? as if scotland are better than ireland lol, there goes credibility.
it will be a tight game leave it at that. as they say, form is temporary and class is permanent.................that goes both ways for both teams.
it will be a tight game leave it at that. as they say, form is temporary and class is permanent.................that goes both ways for both teams.
T
The Burner
Guest
Right to bring a little realism to this discussion I decided to register. 1st off, the biggest problem ireland have at the moment is the breakdown. We cant get quick ball at ruck hence our back play is too ponderous. This is down to 2 reasons.
1. We dont commit enough number to the ruck and
2. We lack anyone who can even remotely pass as an international 7.
Wallace while not being an out and out 7 was the only international class 7 we had. While not the most dynamic at ruck time he still competed and didnt allow the opposite to walk all over us at ruck time. O Brien isnt related to a number 7. Good and all as he is Wallace destroyed him in the magners final. O Brien is not a 7.end of. What makes the loss of wallace even worse is that we are using O Brien at 7. O Brien is our best backrow forward but we are using him to try plug a hole at 7 mean we will miss out on his ball carrying at second phase possession. There are posters on here completely over rating the Irish backrow. What we have are 2 top class 6s and an out of form 8 who wouldnt be in the team if Wallace was available. Great Backrows are about getting the balance right, Which our back row doesnt have
Riptide you are seriously overrating the Australian front 5. I expect us to more than hold our own in this regard, infact I would be advocating target this area of the Australian team. While the Irish team is out of form the front 5 performed well in the warm up games against France and England. O Connell's form is a major plus.
In the backs we are really struggling, No doubt about that. Darcy simply isnt up to it and Kidneys insistance on playing him is on a par with De villiers playing Smit instead of Du Plessis. O Driscoll just isnt the player he once was. Id rate him as one of the greatest centres in the history of the game but too many injuries have taken there toll on him. Not for a second saying he should be dropped but he is not the threat he once was. He is a really competitor at the breakdown though. At half back, Kidney needs to pick a combination. Its either Redden and Sexton or Murray and O Gara. In this regard I am please to see he has picked a combination even though I would have picked the other one! Id have love to seen O Gara come up against Cooper especially after the comments he made about him in the Irish Independent recently. "I think he mixes from the superlative to the very, very ordinary," said opposite number O'Gara. "He is dangerous, but I think sometimes these fellas can be got at too. He'll be a key player for them and his footwork looks incredible but I think there will be opportunities for our team when we play against them as well."
Anyone I know from the Southern hemisphere all rate Rob Kearney. Excellent under a high ball and a has a good boot on him. He has always performed well in the southern Hemisphere. Earls is just one of these players you are waiting to explode onto the scene, electric pace but is lucky to keep his place ahead of Trimble. Tommy Bowe is a good finisher but needs to up his performance from the last day where despite 2 trys he was poor.
All in all Australia will win. I worry what there backs could do to us off turnover ball but I think im going to agree with O Gara though. I think some of them can be got at.
Australia 28 Ireland 19
1. We dont commit enough number to the ruck and
2. We lack anyone who can even remotely pass as an international 7.
Wallace while not being an out and out 7 was the only international class 7 we had. While not the most dynamic at ruck time he still competed and didnt allow the opposite to walk all over us at ruck time. O Brien isnt related to a number 7. Good and all as he is Wallace destroyed him in the magners final. O Brien is not a 7.end of. What makes the loss of wallace even worse is that we are using O Brien at 7. O Brien is our best backrow forward but we are using him to try plug a hole at 7 mean we will miss out on his ball carrying at second phase possession. There are posters on here completely over rating the Irish backrow. What we have are 2 top class 6s and an out of form 8 who wouldnt be in the team if Wallace was available. Great Backrows are about getting the balance right, Which our back row doesnt have
Riptide you are seriously overrating the Australian front 5. I expect us to more than hold our own in this regard, infact I would be advocating target this area of the Australian team. While the Irish team is out of form the front 5 performed well in the warm up games against France and England. O Connell's form is a major plus.
In the backs we are really struggling, No doubt about that. Darcy simply isnt up to it and Kidneys insistance on playing him is on a par with De villiers playing Smit instead of Du Plessis. O Driscoll just isnt the player he once was. Id rate him as one of the greatest centres in the history of the game but too many injuries have taken there toll on him. Not for a second saying he should be dropped but he is not the threat he once was. He is a really competitor at the breakdown though. At half back, Kidney needs to pick a combination. Its either Redden and Sexton or Murray and O Gara. In this regard I am please to see he has picked a combination even though I would have picked the other one! Id have love to seen O Gara come up against Cooper especially after the comments he made about him in the Irish Independent recently. "I think he mixes from the superlative to the very, very ordinary," said opposite number O'Gara. "He is dangerous, but I think sometimes these fellas can be got at too. He'll be a key player for them and his footwork looks incredible but I think there will be opportunities for our team when we play against them as well."
Anyone I know from the Southern hemisphere all rate Rob Kearney. Excellent under a high ball and a has a good boot on him. He has always performed well in the southern Hemisphere. Earls is just one of these players you are waiting to explode onto the scene, electric pace but is lucky to keep his place ahead of Trimble. Tommy Bowe is a good finisher but needs to up his performance from the last day where despite 2 trys he was poor.
All in all Australia will win. I worry what there backs could do to us off turnover ball but I think im going to agree with O Gara though. I think some of them can be got at.
Australia 28 Ireland 19
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Welcome aboard Burner. Good first post and keep them coming.
As I wrote earlier in the thread: Wally was a huge loss. As you say: he is not a 7 as we know them here; he's more like a one man counter rucker, but bloody effective. No, there aren't too many fetcher 7s in Ireland but there aren't a lot of good ones in England either; nor France - I mean, for big international matches. The same for Wales apart from Warburton since MW is all but out of the picture.
Agree with your assessment of the halves and of D'Arcy. Deccie missed a trick in the trials. He had 4 games and should have tried McFadden as the 12. He's mainly a wing or 13 but I've seen him play 12 for Leinster. I wouldn't have thought of P.Wallace as the starting 12 though: his status is as a backup.
Robbie Deans saw a weakness at 12 for Oz, Giteau; so he tried a utility, McCabe, hitherto a fullback or wing in Super Rugby. He's not setting the world on fire but he's going OK. Why didn't Kidney do something similar; the 4 games were lost anyway? Sure, McFadden got a start against Scotland but that was at 13.
As you say, doing 7s duties could blunt SOBs running volume, but they will have him on the blind side methinks on attacking scrums.
ROG's comments about QC (Quade Cooper)? Nothing untoward there; he's right. QC (Quade Cooper) is targeted every gamed he plays in by players who are as good as the Ireland players and sometimes better. QC (Quade Cooper) will be surprised if he is not targeted; not if he is.
As I wrote earlier in the thread: Wally was a huge loss. As you say: he is not a 7 as we know them here; he's more like a one man counter rucker, but bloody effective. No, there aren't too many fetcher 7s in Ireland but there aren't a lot of good ones in England either; nor France - I mean, for big international matches. The same for Wales apart from Warburton since MW is all but out of the picture.
Agree with your assessment of the halves and of D'Arcy. Deccie missed a trick in the trials. He had 4 games and should have tried McFadden as the 12. He's mainly a wing or 13 but I've seen him play 12 for Leinster. I wouldn't have thought of P.Wallace as the starting 12 though: his status is as a backup.
Robbie Deans saw a weakness at 12 for Oz, Giteau; so he tried a utility, McCabe, hitherto a fullback or wing in Super Rugby. He's not setting the world on fire but he's going OK. Why didn't Kidney do something similar; the 4 games were lost anyway? Sure, McFadden got a start against Scotland but that was at 13.
As you say, doing 7s duties could blunt SOBs running volume, but they will have him on the blind side methinks on attacking scrums.
ROG's comments about QC (Quade Cooper)? Nothing untoward there; he's right. QC (Quade Cooper) is targeted every gamed he plays in by players who are as good as the Ireland players and sometimes better. QC (Quade Cooper) will be surprised if he is not targeted; not if he is.
B
Balls_SlanderandRuck
Guest
Thought i replied earlier. Riptide - I honestly think you should destroy your computer, and just forget about this website if Ireland win, as the amount of your dismissal of the side is beyond embarrasment if it goes the other way.
What happens if Sean O'Brien runs at Cooper - Or ever Ferris - these are two of the fastest backrow forwards ive ever seen. Not to mention some of the strongest.
What happens if Ireland raise their game - as they so often do when it counts. England 2011 GS, they needed a win and certainly got one. 2009 Grand slam against Wales, coming back against what was then a world class Wales outfit. 2009, beating SA to make history, cementing one of the longest unbeaten streaks of the professional era and the longest in Irelands history.
What happens if they turn up in Eden park ready to take Australia on in all aspects of the field like they usually do against Australia. Every team has their one team its always a classic match with, and no team is certified of winning, regardless of form. For New Zealand its France. For Australia its Ireland. Out of the last five years, the only convincing result between the sides has been Irelands when they won 21-6 at Lansdowne. Since then theres been a draw, a 6 point victory to Aus in Sydney, and last year a 7 point win again for australia against what was a 1-4th team Ireland XV.
Form means nothing in a World Cup. I expect Ireland to come racing out of the blocks and could have a few people, of a good few nationalities, red faced.
What happens if Sean O'Brien runs at Cooper - Or ever Ferris - these are two of the fastest backrow forwards ive ever seen. Not to mention some of the strongest.
What happens if Ireland raise their game - as they so often do when it counts. England 2011 GS, they needed a win and certainly got one. 2009 Grand slam against Wales, coming back against what was then a world class Wales outfit. 2009, beating SA to make history, cementing one of the longest unbeaten streaks of the professional era and the longest in Irelands history.
What happens if they turn up in Eden park ready to take Australia on in all aspects of the field like they usually do against Australia. Every team has their one team its always a classic match with, and no team is certified of winning, regardless of form. For New Zealand its France. For Australia its Ireland. Out of the last five years, the only convincing result between the sides has been Irelands when they won 21-6 at Lansdowne. Since then theres been a draw, a 6 point victory to Aus in Sydney, and last year a 7 point win again for australia against what was a 1-4th team Ireland XV.
Form means nothing in a World Cup. I expect Ireland to come racing out of the blocks and could have a few people, of a good few nationalities, red faced.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
No doubt in my mind that this will be a close game. If oz hold their nerve (read Quade Cooper) then i am predicting a close win on the back of their replacements. Tpn, slipper, higginbotham, mccalman and possibly burgess to have a big impact off the bench to get us over the line.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Riptide, ain't that the truth, and a visible one on the field in recent games. As a Deans sceptic since v Scotland 2009, I have been contemplating the positive consequences of the following critical changes he (and/or JO'N behind the scenes) has made from late 2010 through mid-2011, and IMO they've been decisive for the good (even though all should have been made earlier, but heh, better late then never):
- Nucicfora to take over the forwards - we've seen major improvements in forwards intensity, technique, numbers, consistency and being there as warriors for 80 mins not 60;
- Blake to defence coach - unsung in many ways, but as Scott Allen's mid-2010 stats showed, the Wallabies were slowly but surely becoming a side with weakened and inconsistent defence (one of the joys of Foxtel's 24/7 RWC rugby channel is re-watching the 1999 and 2003 WC Finals, notable how really excellent was the Wallabies' defence then, contrast that with many 2009 and 2010 Wallabies Tests). That bad sloping curve has been largely corrected with positive impacts. Muggleton would have been better (the Tahs' 2011 S15 defence was peerless, and world-class), but Blake is delivering;
- Giteau - removing the Immovable Icon. Major gains in kicking (though we are far from good enough), and freedom to rebuild the 12 position with generally positive results for the back line;
- Horwill to Captain. Blind Freddy can see the major gains coming from this critical change. Elsom has gained, Horwill's leadership on and off field is outstanding, and, like S Waugh in cricket, he's one of those blokes for whom captaincy is an enabler to higher standards and intensity in his own play, not the reverse.
Each of these key changes - where RD has had to confront managerial and skill weaknesses that were over indulged for long periods - are remaking the 2011 Wallabies with positive results. IMO, they will all cohere towards a win over Ireland where the current Wallabies are a far better team than the one that struggled to defeat an injury-ravaged, second string Ireland at fortress Suncorp in mid-2010.
W
What2040
Guest
Team has to be essentially the same as against Italy - Mitchell has to be on bench to continue his march back into run-on team (otherwise should have been left home) and JOC (James O'Connor) to take Digby's wing spot - the injury has made it much easier for the Selectors
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Is the side announced today?
chequebalance
Bill Watson (15)
2pm apparently. Oz time
Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
It is possible that Deans may go with Sharpe to counter O'Connell and co in the lineout.
Mind you Vicks did a good job there last week so he could stick with him.
Other than that, JOC (James O'Connor) to start in place of Diggers and Shmoo onto the bench.
Looking forward to this to see if the Wallabies can maintain a high standard over more than a couple of tests.
Mind you Vicks did a good job there last week so he could stick with him.
Other than that, JOC (James O'Connor) to start in place of Diggers and Shmoo onto the bench.
Looking forward to this to see if the Wallabies can maintain a high standard over more than a couple of tests.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
V good point JB. That's been the history hasn't it. We play a couple of good games, we start feeding self-praising messages to the media ('start of something special', 'we can tear defences apart'. 'take on anybody with our many X-factors' etc), and then the hype becomes more important than the skill and sustained application, next lo and behold we fall off the edge badly and the cycle of disappointing results starts all over again...
To your point, if we can maintain excellence of play (especially in the forwards) for all of 80 v Ireland and win, that will mean 4 straight Tests of consistent winning quality against senior ranked teams incl SA and ABs. I suspect from memory that would be almost unprecedented for at least, what, the last 5 years of Wallaby history against the top 6 or so?, and thus a good marker of what might lie ahead.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Then who replaces Digby?
Shmoo Shmoo Shmoo Shmoo.
P.S. I hope Deans gives Shmoo a crack.
P.S. I hope Deans gives Shmoo a crack.
Dumbledore
Dick Tooth (41)
hench
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Just telling you what I heard of Fox News.
Riptide
Dave Cowper (27)
Good for you. Your post reads like you already a tad bit red-faced but you'll be in good position to cheer your team on and see SOB and Ferris blow Wallabies away, after running over first over them and then away from them. Good luck with that and enjoy the game.
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