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RWC QF 4 AUS v SCO (Twickenham) 19th Oct 0200 AEDT

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Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
5 good tries to 3 crap against the run of play - right team one.
Now we get the Northern Hemisphere complaining.


You know as well as I do that rugby(union) doesn't work like that - the most disciplined side gets rewarded too.

If a side is outscored 5 tries to 0, and still manages to win a match via 12 penalties, then I'm sorry but the losing team were inept in terms of discipline and fully deserve a loss.

Also, if you score 5 tries to 0 and you lose vs a team with 9 penalties because your kicker scored 0 out of 5 conversions and 0 from 4 penalties, you also deserve to lose.

You play according to the points system. If you are bad enough to lose via bad kicking, or bad discipline, you deserve to lose. It's as simple as that really.
 

Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
Watched the replay of "that" penalty a few times now but can't decide if the ball glances Phipps forearm (scrum Australia) or not (penalty Australia). Either way I'm pretty sure Joubert had recourse to TMO so had to call what he saw. Agree or disagree, call from r TMO the be given yet more powers if you feel so inclined, but don't bag the man for calling what he believed he'd just seen in real time.


Agreed. Which is why it should have been ruled accidental offside, and a scrum. If even by slow motion you cannot determine it a 100%, how the hell was the player supposed to know, at full speed, in the heat of the moment, who it last touched? At full speed, you can fully see why the Scot thought it came off an Aussie.

How Craig Joubert made the call with 100% certainty only he will know.
 

drewprint

Dick Tooth (41)
With it ticking over into 7am, and the northern hemisphere rising from its slumber, I want to apologise in advance for the unreasonable anger, frustration and all round clickbait stuff, on behalf of the somewhat reasonable fans,


Oddly enough, so far your countrymen seem fine. I'm shocked to report that it's actually the Kiwis who are bleating the most.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Curious that for one of the Scotland tries they had 4 or 5 reserves in the in-goal area celebrating BEFORE he had touched the ball down. Is that kosher?

Man I glad someone commented on that, I know I a grizzly old bugger but it shits me that ALL teams seem to think it ok to warm up in the ingoal area, and generally come up and congratulate mates when they score. I always understood that between the deadball lines was thye field of play, and no team is meant to have more than 15 players in the arena at one time. One day someone in that area is going to get struck by a ball or something that could have an affect on the game!!
(great my rant for the night)
 

Hemsley

Frank Row (1)
Not if Foley plays as badly for the first half of the semi final.
If Cooper is on the bench, he should come on. I can't understand Cheika's logic in not putting a fresh Cooper on at the 58 -60 min mark against Scotland, when Foley was at his worst.
I wouldn't have like to watch Cooper taking the last penalty goal to win the game
 

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
the BIG question is. What on earth was James Slipper thinking standing at flyhalf, dumbing to TPN and throwing such an gifted intercept pass to the Scottish center,,,,, in the bloody rain when we had the lead by 8 late in the match !!!
Honestly it was a Dunning drop goal moment.. nearly threw the cup away.


No way, at lease Matt Dunning's action added to our total, not the enemy's!
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Is it just me or there is a possible argument for Sio doing a Marler here?


There would be, but those pictures come a couple of seconds after Laidlaw feeds, then wanders off, no intention of picking up the pill.

By the second picture that time the Scots have walked the back five around (check Denton's angle in the first picture) and the Wallabies change angles to suit. Note in Pic #3 Kepu has had to start moving around instead of staying straight, and Sio has started to gain ground.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
5 good tries to 3 crap against the run of play - right team one.
Now we get the Northern Hemisphere complaining.

And one of those good tries as a result of a player off the field for a bad yellow card.

The win was fortunate. Let's accept it and stop with reaching for every little justification to make ourselves feel better. Yes some calls went wrong both ways, the same as every other rugby game.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Agreed. Which is why it should have been ruled accidental offside, and a scrum. If even by slow motion you cannot determine it a 100%, how the hell was the player supposed to know, at full speed, in the heat of the moment, who it last touched? At full speed, you can fully see why the Scot thought it came off an Aussie.

How Craig Joubert made the call with 100% certainty only he will know.
Yeah - it's swings and round-abouts though. IMO Australia should have been awarded a scrum penalty in kickable range just before that. Instead Joubert reset the scrum then gave Scotland a free kick on the reset. I also thought our scrum fought back after being under the pump earlier and should have got a couple of other calls from Joubert. The last offside penalty may have been dubious, but I'd argue that the earlier 'accidental offside' call should definitely have been a penalty. Scotland deserve full credit for their efforts and we dodged a bullet no doubt, but the argument that Joubert gave us the game is crap. Lucky every rugby game, call went both ways.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
You know as well as I do that rugby(union) doesn't work like that - the most disciplined side gets rewarded too.

If a side is outscored 5 tries to 0, and still manages to win a match via 12 penalties, then I'm sorry but the losing team were inept in terms of discipline and fully deserve a loss.

.


This is SO Unaustralian.

I know people who have lost their passports for lesser indiscretions.
 

drewprint

Dick Tooth (41)
Just watching some highlights now and just spotted Laidlaw giving Foley plenty of lip after he spilt a high kick. I hope Foley gave him a little smile after he iced the win.
 

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Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Some thoughts.

There seems to be a problem or issue with our structured backline attack. Much the same as it's been for the Brumbies over the past couple of years, and I really don't understand it because I'd expect much better from having Larkham as backs coach. But there is little (it seems to me) creative play that forces errors in the defensive line that would allow our outside backs to break the line. I wonder if the combination of Foley, Giteau, Kuridrani is not as effective as it ought to be. We generally accept that Foley isn't as creative as someone like Cooper or Beale, but has there been even one instance where Matt Giteau has opened up a backline defense with some creative move or pass putting Kuridrani into open space. I can't remember any, but even if there were a couple of instances, they are rare and ought to be on show at least once or twice each match.

I get that Giteau is seen as the second play maker and as commented by others is often in first receiver position when Foley has been defending out wide. But to me, he hasn't been performing a playmaker role. More often than not, he trucks it up himself. In previous games, he has usually tried to beat tacklers on their outside, and in this game he did play straighter more often, but I still don't remember him actually putting anyone into a hole. If we want a 12 who can hit it up, then we would get more benefit from playing Matt To'omua imo. But it really looks to be too late now to make any changes to the starting backline. It is what it is now, and we are committed to going with the status quo I believe. I just query whether the Foley/Giteau combination is working the way we might want it to.

The second issue as I perceive it is with the use of the bench last night. I think it gave the lie to the notion that we have a squad of starters and finishers. As none of McMahon, To'omua or Cooper made it onto the ground, they could hardly be called finishers. It looked to me that they were simply injury cover.

Genuinely interested to know why you think a Larkham coached backline would function any differently to what it is? Is there some empirical evidence somewhere in previous coaching that shows how a Larkham backline is supposed to function? I don't recall him coaching professionally at any level anywhere before he got the Brumbies gig. Now we know the formula and systems there were dictated by White in his one size fits all plan. Have the Brumbies really developed past that?

My point is I think people are equating their rose coloured memories of Larkham's running game with some illusory idea that he will coach a backline in some running style. In fact I think you will find that the Wallabies with Larkham didn't play much different to what we are seeing now but they had the benefit of the endless recycle game and favourable law interpretations allowing the attacking team to secure ruck after ruck until the defence fell apart from attrition rather than ensemble attack.

As for the Foley/Giteau 10/12 - I think it is a looking for the best of both worlds, with a 12 in Giteau who can play with vision, can kick and can take the ball to the line without compromising the defence. To'omua is good but I don't think he ticks those boxes as well and that is why he isn't in the run on in place of Giteau. Plus if we wanted a a bash it up 12 then Horne (if uninjured) would have been in front of To'omua
 

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
Man I glad someone commented on that, I know I a grizzly old bugger but it shits me that ALL teams seem to think it ok to warm up in the ingoal area, and generally come up and congratulate mates when they score. I always understood that between the deadball lines was thye field of play, and no team is meant to have more than 15 players in the arena at one time. One day someone in that area is going to get struck by a ball or something that could have an affect on the game!!
(great my rant for the night)


Dan, I commented at the time that it should have been a "no try", due to Scotland having 18 players on the field before the ball was grounded!!
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
On the "THE knock on penalty" at the end - the question is after the ball is knocked on by Scotland and it hits Phipps, are Scotland players in front of the first scottish player returned to an onside position and can then play at the ball?

Answer I think is obviously no they cannot be played onside by a Wallaby knocking the ball back after the infringement by the scottish player. As such to intentionally play the ball is a penalty. If the ball had just bounced off Foley into the Scot it would have been a scrum, but it didn't he took the ball and tried to set up a ruck.
 

Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
On the "THE knock on penalty" at the end - the question is after the ball is knocked on by Scotland and it hits Phipps, are Scotland players in front of the first scottish player returned to an onside position and can then play at the ball?

Answer I think is obviously no they cannot be played onside by a Wallaby knocking the ball back after the infringement by the scottish player. As such to intentionally play the ball is a penalty. If the ball had just bounced off Foley into the Scot it would have been a scrum, but it didn't he took the ball and tried to set up a ruck.



11.3 Being put onside by opponents
In general play, there are three ways by which an offside player can be put onside by an action of the opposing team. These three ways do not apply to a player who is offside under the 10-Metre Law.
(a) Runs 5 metres with ball. When an opponent carrying the ball runs 5 metres, the offside player is put onside.
(b) Kicks or passes. When an opponent kicks or passes the ball, the offside player is put onside.
(c) Intentionally touches ball. When an opponent intentionally touches the ball but does not catch it, the offside player is put onside.

If Phipps touched it last - which is still 50/50 even on slow motion replays - he was not offside. Fair call would have been accidental offside if Joubert was unsure - which he wasn't, but for no obvious reason, as everyone else is still unsure.

But as was mentioned, this was far from his only mistake. On the other side, it's fantasy to think the last wrong call that caused the last lead change won't get the most attention. It's human.
 

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
With it ticking over into 7am, and the northern hemisphere rising from its slumber, I want to apologise in advance for the unreasonable anger, frustration and all round clickbait stuff, on behalf of the somewhat reasonable fans,


Highlander, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Scotland for turning up, turning it on, and making it a memorable, and worthy RWC Quarter Final!
I feel your pain, as one of my great grandfathers was a prominent Scot in Sydney.
He was a member of the NSW Parliament, a board member of Scots College, and a philanthropist of some note!
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Errors don't have to lead directly to points being scored against for them to be clangers. They can have a very detrimental affect on the momentum of the game without "gifting" points immediately. I am not simply having a shot at Foley here, because the same can be said of the errors committed by others as well. But we shouldn't close our eyes or make excuses for the errors of one player because they didn't lead immediately to points against us.


I absolutely agree that an error doesn't have to lead to points to be a clanger.

If you make a perfectly reasonably pass to someone else and they drop it, it's probably not a clanger and it's certainly not your error.

If there is a contested high ball and you get beaten in the air, it's also not a clanger.

I'm not trying to make any excuses. I'm just not going to state that black is white or vice versa.
 
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