RWC QF 1 WAL v RSA (Twickenham) 18th Oct 0200 AEDT

[Bardon]

Gatland is in that phase where working harder seems like the only solution. Wales need to work smarter and that realisation will only come with a fresh set of eyes at the top. Doing the wrong things better is not the solution.

 

[Blue]

Except I don't get the feeling that Gatland thinks they need to change anything.

He loves his job. And he can blame all the injuries. So he will be safe and Wales will go another four years only to be disappointed.

They really need a fresh start.

 

[BDA]

Really enjoyed this game. As a neutral fan with no skin in the game I must say I thought Wales were mostly the better side and it really looked like the Boks were heading for defeat in the second half.

No doubt the Boks will lift against the All Blacks but they're going to have to offer more than they did today. The constant decision to kick away attacking ball was mind numbing. The Boks had the backs to score some points but just refused to play any rugby. It reminded me of the team that lost to Japan. They need to change things up for the Kiwis or defeat is inevitable.

For Wales, it's time to make some decisions about the future. What are their goals over the next 4 years? Under Gatland they may win a Six Nations title, but they will never win a world cup. The injuries for Wales were unfortunate and I think they probably would have gone further in this tournament with a fully fit squad (this game would have been won if they replace Anscombe with Halfpenny), but there shortcomings rest more on Gatland than they do on the players IMO.

 

[Brisbok]

Certainly not a convincing win from the Boks and it took a bit of Duane Vermuelen magic to finally break the Welsh defence down. I must admit feeling very concerned up to that point as the Welsh had defended brilliantly and we had not shown enough variation/creativity to break them down.

As Fourie du Preez said after the game, he felt that all the tackling the Welsh were doing would tire them out and create an opening in the end, and the Boks could capitalise on this if they kept the tempo up.

We will need to make big improvements for next week if we're to challenge the AB's.

I may be biased but I certainly didn't think Wales were the better side and the stats from the official RWC app seem to back up my thinking.

Territory - Boks 61%, Wales 39%
Possession - Boks 59%, Wales 41%
Meters Made - Boks 543, Wales 294
Clean Breaks - Boks 6, Wales 2
Offloads - Boks 7, Wales 2
Carries crossed gainline - Boks 66, Wales 28
Tackles made - Boks 123, Wales 197

 

[Brisbok]

I'm fairly confident that regardless of who plays who, both of these teams should win their quarter finals against Scotland and South Africa.

0/1 so far.

 

[Quick Hands]

0/1 so far.

I'll be happy with 1/1

 

[Brisbok]

I'll be happy with 1/1

Not possible anymore, best you could hope for is 1/2.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Think you're underestimating how well South Africa played. Wales should've finished them in the first half and i would've loved to see them step up in the second but they couldn't match the sustained pressure of the South African forwards and the kicking went from precise to panic driven. Which was a shame cos I reckon they were weak under high ball. As for the try, if they hadn't got that they were consistently well placed for a field goal or another penalty.

I hope Barnes doesn't ref a semi final. His interpretation of the ruck makes it bloody difficult on the attacking team. South Africa played to his views quite brilliantly and managed to slow welsh ball down all the time. Another ref might have seen things differently.

I think that game lays to rest any notion of Barnes being Wales' patsy.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Tend to agree with the thought that Gatland might have done his dash here. I think Wales need a new game plan, because the one they have isn't getting them past the point they're at right now. They've got some great players and blokes who give everything for the jersey, but there is an awful just trying to smash against a brick wall in every phase. I think they're capable of more, but Gatland appears to be too pig headed to try anything different.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Tend to agree with the thought that Gatland might have done his dash here. I think Wales need a new game plan, because the one they have isn't getting them past the point they're at right now. They've got some great players and blokes who give everything for the jersey, but there is an awful just trying to smash against a brick wall in every phase. I think they're capable of more, but Gatland appears to be too pig headed to try anything different.

Dunno. But he does need to have a rethink, certainly. The kiwis are setting the standards.

 

[Gnostic]

I said in it 2011, Gatland ball is so very limited. Even with the slight modifications made to the overall plan for this game it left them with absolutely nothing to offer in attack.

The slight modifications to Gatland ball today saw the Welsh kick nearly everything they got in the way of possession back to the Bok. I saw at one stage the Welsh had made nearly 120 tackles to the Bok 30. That is just ridiculous trying to win a game with so little possession and having to tackle everything else.

I see some posters still supporting Gatland and I suppose that is understandable, given he has achieved some results against NH opposition in the 6 nations, but to put it in perspective, his sides with some of the most talented players in the world, have been unable to beat the Wallabies even under the woeful tutelage of Robbie Deans.

I find it a great shame that we don't get to see a team with some of the best Welsh players we have seen in many years ever achieve the potential that those players could. That potential hasn't got much to do with results, it is about how they are playing, and the Gatland plan, just like the Deans plan at the 2011 RWC is designed to try not to lose, which is different prospect altogether to trying to win.

As for the Boks, they did enough, but they haven't been tested by a very good attack since that Japan game caught them off guard.

 

[Cardiffblue]

I said in it 2011, Gatland ball is so very limited. Even with the slight modifications made to the overall plan for this game it left them with absolutely nothing to offer in attack.

The slight modifications to Gatland ball today saw the Welsh kick nearly everything they got in the way of possession back to the Bok. I saw at one stage the Welsh had made nearly 120 tackles to the Bok 30. That is just ridiculous trying to win a game with so little possession and having to tackle everything else.

I see some posters still supporting Gatland and I suppose that is understandable, given he has achieved some results against NH opposition in the 6 nations, but to put it in perspective, his sides with some of the most talented players in the world, have been unable to beat the Wallabies even under the woeful tutelage of Robbie Deans.

I find it a great shame that we don't get to see a team with some of the best Welsh players we have seen in many years ever achieve the potential that those players could. That potential hasn't got much to do with results, it is about how they are playing, and the Gatland plan, just like the Deans plan at the 2011 RWC is designed to try not to lose, which is different prospect altogether to trying to win.

As for the Boks, they did enough, but they haven't been tested by a very good attack since that Japan game caught them off guard.

With you some of the way here. But the tackle count was pretty one sided the week before and everyone since has been lauding the team

 

[the plastic paddy]

As expected. Close shave but got through in the end.

Commiseration to Welsh fans. A bridge too far. Not enough strike power in the end. We controlled the gain line for most of the time which is where, as expected, the thing was won.

I hate the Bok game plan. Just playing for penalties. No variation to try and score. Just a process of wearing down the defense into a penalty. There were so many opportunities outside but we never chanced it.

It will not work against Australia or New Zealand.

Such a waste of De Allende, Kriel, Le Roux etc to just bosh away and so limiting of the teams ambition IMHO. The forwards give the team such a great platform as well.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Think you're underestimating how well South Africa played. Wales should've finished them in the first half and i would've loved to see them step up in the second but they couldn't match the sustained pressure of the South African forwards and the kicking went from precise to panic driven. Which was a shame cos I reckon they were weak under high ball. As for the try, if they hadn't got that they were consistently well placed for a field goal or another penalty.

I hope Barnes doesn't ref a semi final. His interpretation of the ruck makes it bloody difficult on the attacking team. South Africa played to his views quite brilliantly and managed to slow welsh ball down all the time. Another ref might have seen things differently.

I think that game lays to rest any notion of Barnes being Wales' patsy.

He reverted to allowing people to lie all over the breakdown which suits Wales well but also suits SA.

 

[Cardiffblue]

He reverted to allowing people to lie all over the breakdown which suits Wales well but also suits SA.

He did. And it suited South Africa v nicely.

 

[Brisbok]

He did. And it suited South Africa v nicely.

Having people lying over the ball continuously without being penalised actually assists a defending team more so than an attacking team who are looking for quick ball, no? Perhaps have a watch of a replay of the game without the rose-tinted glasses, work out which team had more of the ball and territory and consider who could have benefitted more from having quick ball.

At the absolute worst, both teams were equally effected, which in terms of the outcome, made it a non-event.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Having people lying over the ball continuously without being penalised actually assists a defending team more so than an attacking team who are looking for quick ball, no? Perhaps have a watch of a replay of the game without the rose-tinted glasses, work out which team had more of the ball and territory and consider who could have benefitted more from having quick ball.

At the absolute worst, both teams were equally effected, which in terms of the outcome, made it a non-event.

I agree he let both sides lie all over the ball, but, with the best will in the world you can't say that SA exactly played a lot of rugby, it was bosh, bosh and bosh again. My point was really that Barnes laissez faire attitude to the breakdown usually favours Wales, that it also suits Meyer's vision is not something which should be celebrated IMHO.

 

[Brisbok]

I agree he let both sides lie all over the ball, but, with the best will in the world you can't say that SA exactly played a lot of rugby, it was bosh, bosh and bosh again. My point was really that Barnes laissez faire attitude to the breakdown usually favours Wales, that it also suits Meyer's vision is not something which should be celebrated IMHO.

Far from celebrating it, where did you get that from? I was merely responding to Cardiffblue who seems to think Barnes' refereeing favoured the Springboks over his team who were apparently squeaky clean with their discipline.

 

[Brisbok]

And to add to the above....hypothetically speaking (certainly not saying I expect it to happen, or even think it is likely to happen), I would be happy for my team to win the WC without scoring another try in the tournament. And I can assure you I would be celebrating then without any concern for there being a 'lack of rugby played'.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Far from celebrating it, where did you get that from? I was merely responding to Cardiffblue who seems to think Barnes' refereeing favoured the Springboks over his team who were apparently squeaky clean with their discipline.

And I was endorsing your opinion. My comment about not celebrating Barnes' reffing was not a criticism of you, it was a criticism of Barnes who, quite simply, refs the breakdown wrong, IMHO.