RWC Pool D - Wallabies vs Uruguay -Saturday October 5 2019 @ 2:15pm

[Tomikin]

We'd probably have beaten Wales if we'd spent the first half not trying to get the ball wide when we shouldn't have.

I agree, we have a pack of who will front up to any team..

 

[TSR]

Forgetting that for years and years Matt was a 10 for the Brumbies, and played extremely well there with the only reason Lilo getting a shot at 10 was his knee injury.. The only thing that makes him a 12 is that he loves contact in attack or defense meaning he hit like a mac truck. But his got all the skills of a 10.

His a very skillful player, and has found form coming off the bench, and that's probably the most important thing to get into our team at the moment

Pretty sure I also remember him playing 10 at the Brumbies and being ordinary for periods as well - but maybe I’m wrong.

I can’t remember him being successful at all as a starting 10 for the Wallabies and, if he has been, it has been for occasional games rather than over a prolonged period. Beale, JOC (James O'Connor) & Hodge all possess the skills require to play 10, but that doesn’t mean it is their best position or that we should pick them there. To me, To'omua’s skill set and instincts as a player are better suited at 12 - but he is capable of handling 10 (and I would rate his ability to do so higher then the three I mentioned).

If he gets picked as starting 10, so be it. Out of him, Foley and Lealiifano he does have the best form - but there is ample evidence that form off the bench does not equate to great performances as a starter.

 

[fatprop]

We'd probably have beaten Wales if we'd spent the first half not trying to get the ball wide when we shouldn't have.

This is baffling to me, isn't Grey the water boy? why does it take to the oranges to the adjustment?

 

[fatprop]

Forgetting that for years and years Matt was a 10 for the Brumbies, and played extremely well there with the only reason Lilo getting a shot at 10 was his knee injury.. The only thing that makes him a 12 is that he loves contact in attack or defense meaning he hit like a mac truck. But his got all the skills of a 10.

His a very skillful player, and has found form coming off the bench, and that's probably the most important thing to get into our team at the moment

He has always look like a 12 who can play 10 to me rather than a "10"

 

[Forcefield]

We'd probably have beaten Wales if we'd spent the first half not trying to get the ball wide when we shouldn't have.

You have to ask, at what point does it become insanity to persist with the width strategy with the out the back passing? I don't recall it working, ever. It seems that opposition are so aware of it, they embarrass us in their defense of it. The only two possibilities where it doesn't seem insane is (1) if we are trying to wear them out and beat opposition for fitness, or (2) if we are about to suddenly completely change our approach to games such that teams expect us to go wide but with screw them in close and through the middle. Sadly, I don't think either of those are true.

 

[Braveheart81]

You have to ask, at what point does it become insanity to persist with the width strategy with the out the back passing? I don't recall it working, ever. It seems that opposition are so aware of it, they embarrass us in their defense of it. The only two possibilities where it doesn't seem insane is (1) if we are trying to wear them out and beat opposition for fitness, or (2) if we are about to suddenly completely change our approach to games such that teams expect us to go wide but with screw them in close and through the middle. Sadly, I don't think either of those are true.

I think it is absolutely the option when we've punched a couple of holes up the middle and have front foot ball and a disorganised defensive line.

The problem is that it's very easy to counter for a defence that is a) set and b) expecting you to do it.

 

[Spruce Moose]

We'd probably have beaten Wales if we'd spent the first half not trying to get the ball wide when we shouldn't have.

Also wouldn't have been down to Fiji at half time either but maybe Cheika is thinking 3rd time lucky?

 

[Viking]

Pretty sure I also remember him playing 10 at the Brumbies and being ordinary for periods as well - but maybe I’m wrong.

I can’t remember him being successful at all as a starting 10 for the Wallabies and, if he has been, it has been for occasional games rather than over a prolonged period. Beale, JOC (James O'Connor) & Hodge all possess the skills require to play 10, but that doesn’t mean it is their best position or that we should pick them there. To me, To'omua’s skill set and instincts as a player are better suited at 12 - but he is capable of handling 10 (and I would rate his ability to do so higher then the three I mentioned).

If he gets picked as starting 10, so be it. Out of him, Foley and Lealiifano he does have the best form - but there is ample evidence that form off the bench does not equate to great performances as a starter.

I disagree there. I feel To'omua is a 10 who was shifted to 12 as his style of play complimented Cooper so well. Direct hard running and solid on defence. He lacked a running threat for years in his career as a 10 which was ultimately his downfall. But his passing, kicking, distribution and backline management was always solid (not outstanding or flashy but solid).

His running game has clearly picked up a lot over recent years, and his time playing in the centres certainly helped cement him as good centre. But I think he could move back to 10 successfully now, especially since he is more of a threat on attack now.

Unlike Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Hodge, he actually has a solid base of playing 10, and doesn't crab accross field. He's not going to be a Cooper style flyhalf but maybe would fit a similar mould to a Pollard - hard running, good hands, great vision, low error rate.

 

[molman]

maybe would fit a similar mould to a Pollard - hard running, good hands, great vision, low error rate.

I don't see him anything like a Pollard. Pollard has a very strong kicking game, something I haven't seen from To'omua.

 

[Forcefield]

I think it is absolutely the option when we've punched a couple of holes up the middle and have front foot ball and a disorganised defensive line.

The problem is that it's very easy to counter for a defence that is a) set and b) expecting you to do it.

Yes, sorry, I should have clarified that I meant from static ball.

 

[Tomikin]

I'll disagree with the people saying that To'omua wasn't a very good 10 and Im pretty much watched all his games for a very long time. Another thing he did very well from 10 was that he led the defensive line extremely well, although after all his head knocks the massive hits he use to put on aren't as regular which is a shame.

Anyway I'm excited to see the Brumbies 9 10 12 and 13 from pass years, not saying thats the best team but brings back some memories of them at there best.

Lets go Wallabies.. !!!

 

[BDA]

If we have to play England in the Quarters, I like To'omua at 10. That's likely to be a very physical game and England's main weapon in attack is Tuilagi running at the 10 / 12 channel.

 

[Uh huh]

To'omua wasn't a bad 10 at the Brumbies, but he was a very limited 10. His style of play (direct, hard running and accurate, punishing defence) was complemented well by White/Prior at 9 and Lealiifano at 12. When he didn't have a creative 12 and a quick, cut-out passing 9 alongside him, the whole backline struggled.

His switch to 12 (precipitated by the decision being made at Wallabies level IIRC) sparked an attacking revival for the Brumbies, that lasted until Lealiifano's ankle exploded. After that, the Brumbies always looked unimaginative in attack with To'omua at 10.

 

[Derpus]

We play 10 man Warren ball with Kerevi at 12, so who really cares who plays 10 as long as that person doesn't throw it to no one or the opposition?

 

[TSR]

Well, I do.

The problem isn’t at all that who plays 10 is irrelevant because of our playing style. It’s that of the three options the Wallabies have, 1 is clear out of form, the second has been patchy and the third has been actually quite good - but that has been off the bench, his past history as a starting 10 has not been great and there is suspicion (reasonable IMO) that his form is benefitting from being the finisher, not the starter.

I agree that the problems around 10 aren’t the only thing hampering us - but I don’t think that in any way diminishes the importance of the issue itself. It’s a significant issue for our team performance and has been for a long time.

 

[Tomikin]

To'omua wasn't a bad 10 at the Brumbies, but he was a very limited 10. His style of play (direct, hard running and accurate, punishing defence) was complemented well by White/Prior at 9 and Lealiifano at 12. When he didn't have a creative 12 and a quick, cut-out passing 9 alongside him, the whole backline struggled.

His switch to 12 (precipitated by the decision being made at Wallabies level IIRC) sparked an attacking revival for the Brumbies, that lasted until Lealiifano's ankle exploded. After that, the Brumbies always looked unimaginative in attack with To'omua at 10.

Totally wrong, To'omua was already done with a knee, that's why Lealiifano went to 10, and at Brumbies and Wallabies Level Pat McCabe moved to 12 and kicked off one of the greatest attack we have seen for a while. Then that dirty AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) broke Lealiifano's ankle and we play with To'omua at 10 and Lealiifano at 12 in 2013

Check out the starting team from the 2013 final vs the Chiefs

BRUMBIES:

FB 15 Jesse Mogg
RW 14 Henry Speight
OC 13 Tevita Kuridrani
IC 12 Christian Lealiifano
LW 11 Clyde Rathbone
FH 10 Matt To'omua
SH 9 Nic White
N8 8 Ben Mowen (c)
OF 7 George Smith
BF 6 Peter Kimlin
RL 5 Sam Carter
LL 4 Scott Fardy
TP 3 Ben Alexander
HK 2 Stephen Moore
LP 1 Scott Sio

 

[Slim 293]

Also, To'omua didn't play at 12 for the Brumbies until 2015......... two years after Link played him there.

He was first choice 10 under White, and then Bernie from 2012 - 2014.

 

[Tomikin]

Also, To'omua didn't play at 12 for the Brumbies until 2015... two years after Link played him there.

He was first choice 10 under White, and then Bernie from 2012 - 2014.

Dont let facts get in the way of a good story

 

[Derpus]

Totally wrong, To'omua was already done with a knee, that's why Lealiifano went to 10, and at Brumbies and Wallabies Level Pat McCabe moved to 12 and kicked off one of the greatest attack we have seen for a while. Then that dirty AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) broke Lealiifano's ankle and we play with To'omua at 10 and Lealiifano at 12 in 2013

Check out the starting team from the 2013 final vs the Chiefs

BRUMBIES:

FB 15 Jesse Mogg
RW 14 Henry Speight
OC 13 Tevita Kuridrani
IC 12 Christian Lealiifano
LW 11 Clyde Rathbone
FH 10 Matt To'omua
SH 9 Nic White
N8 8 Ben Mowen (c)
OF 7 George Smith
BF 6 Peter Kimlin
RL 5 Sam Carter
LL 4 Scott Fardy
TP 3 Ben Alexander
HK 2 Stephen Moore
LP 1 Scott Sio

What a team. Not one uncapped player in the first 15.

 

[Slim 293]

What a team. Not one uncapped player in the first 15.

Although 7 of them uncapped at the time...........

Speight the last to receive one due to bumbling his eligibility.