RWC Oct 16 2023 1/8 Final France vs South Africa

[Tomthumb]

French were their own worst enemy today, didn't send enough bodies to the breakdown and that's a cardinal sin against a team like South Africa

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

 

[Dctarget]

SA are the absolute kings at slowing the game down. I would be fascinated to see the BiP time for that game. France gave up two soft tries and some silly kicks, they must really feel like they let that go.

 

[KiwiM]

France butchered the last 10 minutes.

Should have gone for the try but took the 3 and gambled on a) being able to get back down the Bok end and b) getting a penalty awarded when refs that late in a RWC game almost always do every thing to try and avoid giving a penalty.

Then from the restart they had a poor exit combined with the 22 drop out on the full.

 

[Dan54]

I still can't believe they left DuPont on until end, as I said earlier he was almost on knees, and if your only option for winning game you gat problem.
I still a few hours later a l plans, there were some dodgy uses of HIA protocls, and waterboy running on with messages is just shit.ittle disappointed with some of Boks seemingly

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ wrt water carriers:

For all competitions, including Rugby World Cup 2021 playing in 2022, Rugby World Cup 2023 or stand-alone matches that begin after 1 July 2022 the following adjustments to Law 6 will apply:

Medics

• Can only provide water to players who they are treating
• Cannot field or touch a ball when it is live in play (sanction: penalty kick)
  
  Additional personnel
• Teams are permitted up to two dedicated water carriers
• Water carriers cannot be a Director of Rugby or Head Coach
• In elite-level rugby, water carriers will only be able to enter the field of play twice per half at points agreed with the match officials – this can only be during a stoppage in play or after a try has been scored
• A person bringing on a kicking tee may carry one bottle for the kicker’s use only
• These water/tee carriers must remain in the Technical Zone at all times before entering the field of play as permitted. Any attempt to field or touch the ball while it is live in play, including the technical zone, will be sanctioned with a penalty kick.
• No-one should approach, address or aim comments at the match officials, save for medics in respect of treatment of a player. Should this happen, the sanction will be a penalty kick.
  
  Players on the field
• May access water behind the dead ball line or from within their Technical Zone at any time

Multiple clear & obvious breaches by both teams & the match officials did nothing about it that I could see.

SA also took the absolute piss out of the HIA process wrt Vermeulen & du Toit. A much tougher one for the on-field officials to act on but needs to be looked at or we'll end up with loig-style rolling interchanges.

 

[PhilClinton]

SA also took the absolute piss out of the HIA process wrt Vermeulen & du Toit. A much tougher one for the on-field officials to act on but needs to be looked at or we'll end up with loig-style rolling interchanges.

Independent doctors on the sideline are really the only way forward to avoid any issues. All major sporting comps are going through teething issues around their protocols at the moment.

I think something along the lines of the below could work, or at least deter teams for trying to take advantage of the system:

Player must be assessed by independent doctor within 5mins of leaving the field. If deemed to be fine, that player must return to the field within next 5mins or the HIA replacement player is also removed from the field, and they play with only 14 men until the confirmed healthy player retakes the field.

Of course, it doesn't address if players are being coached to fake low grade concussion symptoms because they know what the protocols are. But then we are getting into conspiracy theory territory.

For the record I'm not suggesting the SA blokes definitely did that. But it did seem odd.

 

[TSR]

I’m prepared to say I highly suspicious that the HIA’s were legit. It all seemed a bit too convenient to me.

However it is not that long ago that teams were openly flaunting the blood bin rules and prior to that the rules which allowed teams to run a rotation with their props. Ultimately pro teams exploit the rules however they can. The integrity of the game is quickly by-passed whenever competitive advantage can be gained.

Just disappointing that, yet again, rules put in place to protect players safety are being flaunted.

 

[Dctarget]

Still sad about this. What a narrative France (and Ireland) were building to crash out so swiftly. All the hype and nothing. Penaud looked for all money that he was going to smash the try scoring record. Fortunately for France they have a remarkably young squad with key players who will all be there in 4 years. Fickou is somehow only 29, felt like he's been around for years.

Their whole backline will be there, they're losing some serious heft in the forwards though with Baille, Antonio, Taufifenau and Willemse all too old. And Ollivon who's 30, thought he was more 26. Need some props to step up and hoping that Meafou can go the next level. I liked what I saw of Wardi, who's still got another cycle in him.

 

[Italophile]

I still can't believe they left DuPont on until end, as I said earlier he was almost on knees, and if your only option for winning game you gat problem.
I still a few hours later a l plans, there were some dodgy uses of HIA protocls, and waterboy running on with messages is just shit.ittle disappointed with some of Boks seemingly

Not sure it would have made a big difference. Lucu, on the bench, defines pedestrian. Couilloud much better but Galthié seems to prefer Lucu. Didn't help either that Jalibert had a bit of a stinker.

Boks won it with their subs. And seemingly spurious HIAs.

 

[Pfitzy]

France didn't take some early high balls and weren't prepared for the ferocity of the ruck.

They lost that game in the first 30 minutes.

Disagree with the above on Lucu. Dupont looked like he was running on fumes at the end and 10 minutes of energy from the bench might have made a difference

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Fuck. I'm still disappointed that France crashed out.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

SA have gone top of the Rankings on the back of that win. NZ 2, Ireland 3, France 4.

Springboks oust Ireland from top spot in World Rugby Men’s Rankings powered by Capgemini ｜ Rugby World Cup 2023

The reigning world champions are back up to number one in the world for the first time in 15 months after they broke France’s hearts and Ireland suffered an equally agonising defeat to New Zealand.

www.rugbyworldcup.com

 

[Dctarget]

Do these new angles cast doubt over the legality of Cheslin Kolbe's vital charge-down play?

The South African winger prevented the conversion from Thomas Ramos in the first half, as his team went on to record a one-point win…

www.theroar.com.au

legit looks like Kolbe jumped the gun, good stuff

 

[LeCheese]

Do these new angles cast doubt over the legality of Cheslin Kolbe's vital charge-down play?

The South African winger prevented the conversion from Thomas Ramos in the first half, as his team went on to record a one-point win…

www.theroar.com.au

legit looks like Kolbe jumped the gun, good stuff

Maybe a hot take, but I wouldn't hate to see conversion charge downs removed from the game - too much grey area over when a kicker actually starts their action imo.

Kolbe's defended it, saying his time playing with Ramos means he knows his action. A fair point, but it still looks early to my eyes - hard to say from those angles not being able to see the finer details of Ramos' movement.

 

[KOB1987]

I was wondering while I was watching late in the game with the suss looking HIA's - and I'll admit I don't know what the actual law is - has there ever been an instance in top level rugby of a game needing to be replayed due to illegal tactics by a team? Similar to the Parra/Manly (?) loig GF that had to be replayed due to a 7 tackle count.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Seems the French are doing a South Africa and complaining about the reffing.

 

[TSR]

I won’t comment on the refereeing generally but he did seem to get the Etzebeth knock down right to me.

Right or wrong on that call gee Etzebeth is an amazingly good player.

 

[Blue]

I’m prepared to say I highly suspicious that the HIA’s were legit. It all seemed a bit too convenient to me.

However it is not that long ago that teams were openly flaunting the blood bin rules and prior to that the rules which allowed teams to run a rotation with their props. Ultimately pro teams exploit the rules however they can. The integrity of the game is quickly by-passed whenever competitive advantage can be gained.

Just disappointing that, yet again, rules put in place to protect players safety are being flaunted.

It has been scrutinised to death and was within rules.

Not saying it was right but the rules were not broken.

 

[Blue]

Seems the French are doing a South Africa and complaining about the reffing.

Every incident they are talking about is valid. I don't deny that.

But refs make calls. Sometimes wrong. The only variable is who ends up on the wrong side.

the more impactful wrong call was Kwagga not supporting his weight but ref was not able to see that and we can't have the TMO call these decisions back. The game will die. It is bad enough already.

I can also whinge. There are tons of clips of the Etzebeth try, as he falls there is clear head contact on him from a French player.

None of this is why France lost. They could not put us away and completely panicked in the last ten