RWC Oct 15 2023 1/8 Final Ire vs NZ.

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Don't come on here making sense. RA and logic are a allergic.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Last time i looked that thread was taken over by 2 people arguing over something for about 50 pages.

So ask the mods to do something about it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

We're pretty much at the bottom now. We're the laughing stock of Australia sports and World Rugby. Missing out on the finals will make our situation a lot worse. We will be harder hit financially and we will have a harder time attracting younger people to the game or to stick with it.

No better time then to address the problem. We've had dire situations in Australian rugby before, remember. With the right people and game plan from the club system through to the elite level the situation can be improved. It isn't hopeless.

 

[Pfitzy]

Why do we need to hit rock bottom to address the problems?

Firstly, we're not at rock bottom. Whenever you think we've reached the bottom of the barrel, RA will ask you to hand them an axe.

As to why: NZ exited at the QF in RWC2007, having not won RWC for 20 years. They lost multiple semifinals (1991, 1999, 2003) and one final (1995) despite wearing the favourites tag for most of them.

While their public were under the impression Barnes screwed them, the people behind the scenes knew their shit stank and they needed to wipe better.

They reviewed a lot of their systems, put things into action, and won the next 2 off the back of it.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Forgot this is the NZ v Ireland thread…

 

[Penriff_boy]

Firstly, we're not at rock bottom. Whenever you think we've reached the bottom of the barrel, Rugby Australia will ask you to hand them an axe.

As to why: NZ exited at the QF in RWC2007, having not won RWC for 20 years. They lost multiple semifinals (1991, 1999, 2003) and one final (1995) despite wearing the favourites tag for most of them.

While their public were under the impression Barnes screwed them, the people behind the scenes knew their shit stank and they needed to wipe better.

They reviewed a lot of their systems, put things into action, and won the next 2 off the back of it.

But why can't those changes be made if we were in the finals?

For example England have had a very average year and are lucky to have made it to the semi's due to a favourable draw.

Do you think that will stop them addressing their problems? Most likely no.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Firstly, we're not at rock bottom. Whenever you think we've reached the bottom of the barrel, Rugby Australia will ask you to hand them an axe.

As to why: NZ exited at the QF in RWC2007, having not won RWC for 20 years. They lost multiple semifinals (1991, 1999, 2003) and one final (1995) despite wearing the favourites tag for most of them.

While their public were under the impression Barnes screwed them, the people behind the scenes knew their shit stank and they needed to wipe better.

They reviewed a lot of their systems, put things into action, and won the next 2 off the back of it.

Actually the "Barnes screwed us" narrative came from Henry & his backers (you may recall his listing all the calls WB supposedly got wrong) & whereas some supporters bought into it most serious followers of the game knew damn well where the real fault lay.

I'd also contend that the foundation for 2011 & 2015 was actually laid in 2004 when the provinces revolted against the CEO who cost NZ the RWC sub-hosting rights & the Board that appointed & continued to back.him. The circa-2003 Board would've sacked Henry in order to save their own skins, the 2007 Board made the call to retain him (Deans interviewing poorly even by his own admission helped in that regard), copped the resulting shit but were ultimately proven correct. Full disclosure: at the time I thought Henry should've be sacked as coach & McGOAT as captain.

 

[Kevin77]

Well, this discussion over the last few pages has made me appreciate the state of Irish rugby (albeit living here and still caring about the Wallabies/Australian rugby)

Getting called a choker doesn't feel like the worst case anymore

 

[Bullrush]

We're pretty much at the bottom now. We're the laughing stock of Australia sports and World Rugby. Missing out on the finals will make our situation a lot worse. We will be harder hit financially and we will have a harder time attracting younger people to the game or to stick with it.

I don’t necessarily think this is true.

1. The RWC has been a tremendous showpiece of our game regardless of how the Wallabies went. Not only has the product been awesome but it should highlight the opportunities that exist all over the world for young players.

2. Younger players will get involved or stay where they feel welcome and a part of something. Yes, it probably helps when the top team is going well but at a local level, we need to be working hard to give kids an environment where they feel safe but are challenged. Where they learn and get coached. Where they have fun but work hard to get results.

Maybe I’m a bit kumbaya about this all but I think the future of rugby is somewhat in our own hands at the grassroots level.

 

[Pfitzy]

Getting called a choker doesn't feel like the worst case anymore

Compared to the ABs, you're not even on the podium when it comes to RWC chokes. They've got 1st thru 4th sewn up

 

[Penriff_boy]

I don’t necessarily think this is true.

1. The RWC has been a tremendous showpiece of our game regardless of how the Wallabies went. Not only has the product been awesome but it should highlight the opportunities that exist all over the world for young players.

2. Younger players will get involved or stay where they feel welcome and a part of something. Yes, it probably helps when the top team is going well but at a local level, we need to be working hard to give kids an environment where they feel safe but are challenged. Where they learn and get coached. Where they have fun but work hard to get results.

Maybe I’m a bit kumbaya about this all but I think the future of rugby is somewhat in our own hands at the grassroots level.

1. Yes it has been a good showcase, but how many non rugby people are watching? Probably very few. I'm sure if the Wallabies were still in then there would be a lot of bandwagon supporters and people taking more of an interest in the other games.

2. Yes true those are good points, but how's that different to other sports. They can get that playing other sports. Most people like to a follow a winning team. You always get bigger crowds, more playing numbers etc.

 

[Bullrush]

Well, this discussion over the last few pages has made me appreciate the state of Irish rugby (albeit living here and still caring about the Wallabies/Australian rugby)

Getting called a choker doesn't feel like the worst case anymore

I’ve heard people say things like

‘I feel for Ireland’ and ‘That should have been the final’ etc

but I don’t feel for Ireland or its supporters at all. No-one felt for the ABs or it’s supporters for all those years we were labelled chokers and laughed at and mocked. Certainly no-one felt for us when we lost the series at home last year.

And it’s not that I want the same for Ireland. But its the way the game goes sometimes and I’m sure Ireland will learn from it, keep improving and hopefully, will be just as strong for years to come.

This weekend of rugby has been probably the absolute BEST weekend of footy ever seen. As much as I want to see the ABs win it, it would be hard to hate or not acknowledge how worthy the eventual winner will be.

 

[Dan54]

I agree on the weekend of rugby, and mine was even better than most on here! 4 bloody good QFs in WC, a couple of them up there with best games ever at WC, and to top that all off I had the Naki semi win and HB win so I get final here in the Naki next week. I genuinely struggle to think of having a beetter rugby weekend in my 60 odd years of chasing this bloody great game!

 

[Kevin77]

I’ve heard people say things like

‘I feel for Ireland’ and ‘That should have been the final’ etc

but I don’t feel for Ireland or its supporters at all. No-one felt for the ABs or it’s supporters for all those years we were labelled chokers and laughed at and mocked. Certainly no-one felt for us when we lost the series at home last year.

And it’s not that I want the same for Ireland. But its the way the game goes sometimes and I’m sure Ireland will learn from it, keep improving and hopefully, will be just as strong for years to come.

This weekend of rugby has been probably the absolute BEST weekend of footy ever seen. As much as I want to see the ABs win it, it would be hard to hate or not acknowledge how worthy the eventual winner will be.

Ironically I think the Irish generally hade a lot of respect for the Kiwis even before they won in 2011.

Take your point though as it's up to Ireland to work on Ireland and keep improving.

I'm not complaining about the draw but it's mad to think Ireland and France are on the way home and we're only here given how good they both are

 

[Dan54]

Well, this discussion over the last few pages has made me appreciate the state of Irish rugby (albeit living here and still caring about the Wallabies/Australian rugby)

Getting called a choker doesn't feel like the worst case anymore

You know one of reasons I dislike the whole choker tag shit that people put on teams? It is not giving credit too team that wins. I said it when ABs lost WC matches and wankers said they choked, no the other team just played better.
As is case in most test looses, because the team you think will win, isn't always because they played poorly, give credit to teams that play well and force your team to not look good.

 

[Dan54]

Ironically I think the Irish generally hade a lot of respect for the Kiwis even before they won in 2011.

Take your point though as it's up to Ireland to work on Ireland and keep improving.

I'm not complaining about the draw but it's mad to think Ireland and France are on the way home and we're only here given how good they both are

I not sure if I know where this supposed Irish arrogance comes from. I haven't really seen them acting arrogant etc, ok a lot of supporters thought they would win, and they had every right to have confidence, but that's not arrogance. Ok in a few rugby forums I have seen a few over the top comments, but you get that from any country especially from the small minority that hang out in forums like this.

 

[Kevin77]

You know one of reasons I dislike the whole choker tag shit that people put on teams? It is not giving credit too team that wins. I said it when ABs lost WC matches and wankers said they choked, no the other team just played better.
As is case in most test looses, because the team you think will win, isn't always because they played poorly, give credit to teams that play well and force your team to not look good.

Definitely.

The All Blacks played brilliantly.
They were tactically excellent and aside from the usually excellent Savea and Jordan I saw great games from Cane, the front row and a vintage Beauden Barret performance.

All I've heard from Kiwi fans the last couple of years is how this is a non vintage team and a poor coach. So I guess i started to believe some of that and if I'm honest, player for player it's not filled with the names of 2011 and 2015. But that performance was vintage.

Ireland didn't play particularly badly. We made mistakes (our game plan allows for this) but if that maul was grounded we'd all be lauding Ireland getting out of jail.

Quite simply two genuine heavyweights went toe to toe and the best team won on the day.

 

[Kevin77]

I not sure if I know where this supposed Irish arrogance comes from. I haven't really seen them acting arrogant etc, ok a lot of supporters thought they would win, and they had every right to have confidence, but that's not arrogance. Ok in a few rugby forums I have seen a few over the top comments, but you get that from any country especially from the small minority that hang out in forums like this.

I was definitely confident. I thought we'd win. it was on the back on the last couple of years for us and NZ.

It's mad, Ireland have spent the last 30 odd years being the lovable pissheads who ultimately lose. So people weren't threatened.
We're now a real team and when you get to be a genuine top side we have to take that you're going to lose coming up against other top sides

 

[Brumby Runner]

Because I don't trust people invested in the status quo to not point to an OK result at this RWC as proof everything is fine. Sometimes you need to be mugged by reality to properly address the issue(s).

I'm also not talking about a bottom up rebuild. There is a lot we can do without burning the whole place down and starting again.

Yeah, that's the thing Hornet. What if the people at the top pick the wrong systems to impose on all of the Super franchises? Centralisation needs to pick and choose the right elements to bring under central control. However, that's for another thread.

 

[KevinO]

While I am guttered that Ireland lost, this side has really improved the standing of Irish rugby

To think they won 17 games in a row, that includes wins over NZ, SA, France is a massive achievement. Plus a grand slam. Ireland has only lost 1 game in 2023, 2 games in 2022. That's a record all teams would want.

First professional team to win a series in NZ, and there has been plenty of good teams to try and fail.

Also developed depth, I know a lot has been made that Ireland didn't rest players during the world cup. But they didn't lay full strength before the cup unlike everyone else. The first game was the same as a final warm up game.

In 2020 I really thought Ireland buggered up appointing Farrell, he has proved me wrong and I really enjoy his press conferences and his honesty. The whole time he is still looking for ways to improve.

On to domestic, Cmon Munster