RWC: GEO v NZ (Millenium): Pool C

[Cardiffblue]

Every 4 years rugby fans of tier 1 nations the world over express their joy at the performance of some plucky team or other and suggest ways that they could be given a leg up via Super franchises or extended international series. then the RWC finishes and nothing happens nor will it ever. Too much cost, too little TV money return, too much invested $$$ interest at club level and tbh too much risk that the so called tier 1 nations might not always be tier 1. Much as we'd like to imagine RWC is like football it isn't. Doesn't have the following even in tier 1 to make this happen

 

[Relance]

Italy are definitely at a low point now after being much better a couple of years ago.

It is feasible to set up the 6 Nations and 6 Nations B competitions as promotion and relegation but wishful thinking to suggest that Italy should just be replaced by Georgia.

The reality is that over the vast majority of the time since Italy joined the 5 Nations to make it 6 Nations they have been a lot better than Georgia.

Terrific game this morning by Georgia. The All Blacks were terrible and treated the game like an opposed training run which grossly underestimated their opposition.

The promotion-relegation game could be interesting, but only provided the 6 nations committee refrains from implementing a bonus points system. They would have the adverse effect of impeding the progress of small teams who would likely resort to negative tactics in order to grind LBPs, at the expense of comprehensive development.

@ Rugbynutter: I just find it a bit odd that you're claiming your statement is valid because you've watched one team for many years. You certainly haven't watched a lot of Italian rugby bar the World Cup. Over the last 4 years, it was Scotland that finished last twice in the 6 nations. Italy once, France once.

 

[Braveheart81]

Still might not work. The reason these so called minnows are doing well is that many of them are top pro players plying their trade in top leagues. The lack of international commitments makes them attractive to clubs. Increasing international matches will make them less so.

Clearly some of those players are good enough that they'd be attractive to the teams in France and the UK regardless.

I haven't checked the matchday squads from the last European Nations Cup but surely the teams generally have their players available for matches played in the international windows.

 

[whatty]

Lucky the AB's have Tonga next week to sort themselves out. If that was there last game before Ireland/France I would be a very worried Kiwi.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Italy have been poor at this world cup it's true. They are a year or more beyond the end of a cycle of great players. I'd hate to see them leave 6n on the basis of current performance.

Shit. if we'd applied that logic to early 90s Wales would've been division 3 and as relance says Scotland would be now.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Clearly some of those players are good enough that they'd be attractive to the teams in France and the UK regardless.

I haven't checked the matchday squads from the last European Nations Cup but surely the teams generally have their players available for matches played in the international windows.

You're kidding!

 

[Relance]

Clearly some of those players are good enough that they'd be attractive to the teams in France and the UK regardless.

I haven't checked the matchday squads from the last European Nations Cup but surely the teams generally have their players available for matches played in the international windows.

I actually can't think of a Georgian player that wasn't released for the 6 Nations B. Gorgodze (Toulon), Nariashvili (Montpellier) and Zirakashvili (Clermont) for sure, so you'd assume the likes of Kolelishvili and Mikautadze as well.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Tier 1 nations carry some clout with Top 14 and English leagues due to fractious relationship between RFUs and leagues and individual contracts like George North. Anything below that has nothing. For Pacific Islanders, Georgians etc the leagues are the means of earning a living.

 

[Quick Hands]

Quite a rusty, disjointed and mistake riddled performance from the ABs. Credit to Gerogia for keeping the pressure on throughout. Matched the ABs in the physical and scrambled well in defence. Georgia don't quite have the attack yet to match it at this level, but they improve every RWC and they'll be there soon. Fitness told in the last 5 mins when the ABs ran in two quick tries to blow the score out.

I'm sure that NZ will play much better than this in the finals, but the air of invincibility is gone after this match.

 

[Braveheart81]

You're kidding!

The point I was making is evidenced below by Relance's post. The top Georgian players who have contracts in Europe aren't just there to fill gaps during international windows. They're allowed to leave and play for their country like other international players during the international windows.

You seemed to suggest that they only get contracts because they don't play test matches.

I wasn't saying that the whole Georgian side is good enough to have contracts in the UK and France.

Of course the Georgian team needs access to their best players to compete internationally. It's not really any different from any other country. The integrity of test matches is only maintained by making the top players available.

I actually can't think of a Georgian player that wasn't released for the 6 Nations B. Gorgodze (Toulon), Nariashvili (Montpellier) and Zirakashvili (Clermont) for sure, so you'd assume the likes of Kolelishvili and Mikautadze as well.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

I have been rabbiting on about how Georgia deserve to join the six nations as they are way bettter than Italy.I think Georgia's B team against NZ's A team proved this point.

When the bloody hell are we going to get Georgia to join the 6 nations as way overdue

The Irish B/C team beat the Georgia XV in Autumn by 40+ points. Italy beat the Irish XV two years ago. Georgia are a good team but they're simply not as good as Italy. They have got a pack that would match a lot of tier one teams but their backs are generally very poor, most are plying their trade in the French Pro D2 and the division below that.

Besides, Georgia would need to be hitting a lot higher than they are already to gain inclusion into the 6N. That is beating Scotland and Italy regularly and at least one of the top four nations. The reason being the amount of investment put into Italy by including them not just in the 6N but Euro and Pro 12 competitions. To boot Italy out now would signal a 20 year project going to utter waste.

Besides, come a match day in the 6N, which draws in the fans - Italy in the Spring sun or Tiblisi? Georgia are doing fantastic, but they need to be doing a lot more to make the heads of the Euro unions take notice.

 

[Dewald Nel]

Every 4 years rugby fans of tier 1 nations the world over express their joy at the performance of some plucky team or other and suggest ways that they could be given a leg up via Super franchises or extended international series. then the RWC finishes and nothing happens nor will it ever. Too much cost, too little TV money return, too much invested $$$ interest at club level and tbh too much risk that the so called tier 1 nations might not always be tier 1. Much as we'd like to imagine RWC is like football it isn't. Doesn't have the following even in tier 1 to make this happen

Italy joining the six nations a decade and a bit ago and Argentina joining the Rugby Championship in 2012 - I wouldn't say nothing. But I agree that it takes way too long.

 

[Omar Comin']

The Irish B/C team beat the Georgia XV in Autumn by 40+ points.

That was a Georgia B/C team as well. Georgia use the Tbilisi Cup as a development competition for younger players.

Georgia have improved quite a lot on their own but imagine how much more they could improve if they were part of a tier 1 competition. Or even if they just got to play a couple of tier 1 teams per year.

You guys say they have to start regularly beating tier 1 teams, but how can they when they play them so rarely!? And when they do it's never at home. They've beaten teams like Samoa and Japan in Tbilisi in the past couple of years. No reason why they couldn't do the same against the likes of Italy and Scotland.

The big plus for Georgia is that they've had big improvements at junior level. They won the Junior World Trophy for the first time this year so have qualified for next year's Junior World Cup. Most of their u-20's forward pack are already signed by Top 14 teams. And their under 18's team made the final of the Elite Division of the European Championships this year, defeating both Ireland and Italy (though they did lose heavily in the final to France). This interview with Milton Haig highlights the growth: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...g-georgias-rugby-wave-and-loving-every-moment

 

[aeneas]

Lucky the AB's have Tonga next week to sort themselves out. If that was there last game before Ireland/France I would be a very worried Kiwi.

Im a very worried kiwi right now. I honestly can't see them getting past the quarters. They gone on a year too long with this lot. France will smash them and i'd give Ireland a 95% chance of winning their first ever game against NZ based their the black performances to date.

 

[terry j]

It is such a warning he had to use a microphone!

 

[FrankLind]

I agree we don't look good.

But I also think (hope?) we are hiding our game plan for the quarters. No point revealing it until then.

Aussie and England are going to expose their top game plan today (they have to).

 

[Dismal Pillock]

it seems borderline deluded to me that the AB's coaching panel keep fronting up post-match and seem so nonplussed about it all, virtually blase. Completely calm, we got this one, no worries. Really? Guys? It sure as fuck dont look like a keeping-powder-dry scenario to every other prick in the world who's seen them go from 3 years of axe-murder to an abbreviated 2015 season of bumblefarts to Bumblefuck City Limits pop.23 as soon as the bloody RWC started

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^ It's just nature repeating the Quadrennial Choke @Dismal Pillock. The cycle is only interrupted when the Rugby Gods decide to hold the tourney in the Shaky Isles.

#Don'tFcukWithMotherNature

 

[Quick Hands]

it seems borderline deluded to me that the AB's coaching panel keep fronting up post-match and seem so nonplussed about it all, virtually blase. Completely calm, we got this one, no worries. Really? Guys? It sure as fuck dont look like a keeping-powder-dry scenario to every other prick in the world who's seen them go from 3 years of axe-murder to an abbreviated 2015 season of bumblefarts to Bumblefuck City Limits pop.23 as soon as the bloody RWC started

We had 6 years of Robbie Deans doing it.

 

[Quick Hands]

That was a Georgia B/C team as well. Georgia use the Tbilisi Cup as a development competition for younger players.

Georgia have improved quite a lot on their own but imagine how much more they could improve if they were part of a tier 1 competition. Or even if they just got to play a couple of tier 1 teams per year.

You guys say they have to start regularly beating tier 1 teams, but how can they when they play them so rarely!? And when they do it's never at home. They've beaten teams like Samoa and Japan in Tbilisi in the past couple of years. No reason why they couldn't do the same against the likes of Italy and Scotland.

The big plus for Georgia is that they've had big improvements at junior level. They won the Junior World Trophy for the first time this year so have qualified for next year's Junior World Cup. Most of their u-20's forward pack are already signed by Top 14 teams. And their under 18's team made the final of the Elite Division of the European Championships this year, defeating both Ireland and Italy (though they did lose heavily in the final to France). This interview with Milton Haig highlights the growth: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...g-georgias-rugby-wave-and-loving-every-moment

The thing that I like is that rugby seems to be ahead of soccer in football code and the other main sport in the country seems to be wrestling (greco-roman not the professional crap).