RWC: ENG v WAL (Twickenham): POOL A

[Lorenzo]

Better get used to the Cheika bullshit bingo, because he's always been the same. If anyone really thinks he didn't know about bonus points, it's them that's being a dumbass.

Unlike yourself I am not a wallaby insider, so I can only judge him on what I see and hear, which is the product he puts on the field and what he says to the papers.

 

[Groucho]

Unlike yourself I am not a wallaby insider, so I can only judge him on what I see and hear, which is the product he puts on the field and what he says to the papers.

Mate, I'm not a Wallaby insider. All I'm sayin' is that it takes two to play bullshit bingo: one to pretend they believe what they say, and one to pretend they believe what they hear.

If you really do believe Cheika didn't know about bonus points, and aren't just strenuously contorting yourself to make it seem like you do, then consider my default incredulity withdrawn!

But you do seem to want it both ways, like Schrodinger's cat. The quantum interpretation of post-game utterances.

 

[Lorenzo]

Mate, I'm not a Wallaby insider. All I'm sayin' is that it takes two to play bullshit bingo: one to say it and then one to pretend to believe it. If you really do believe he didn't know about bonus points, and aren't just strenuously contorting yourself to make it seem like you do, then consider my comments withdrawn.

What the fuck? You actually quoted this:

Look, privately, he must understand the value of bonus points as much as the rest of us. I don't really know why he chose not to acknowledge it in public - perhaps he wanted to avoid any perception that he was throwing Hooper under the bus.

 

[Braveheart81]

The problem is that the same people complaining about not kicking for the corner from that penalty would be just as critical if we'd kicked for the corner, muffed the lineout and then Fiji had got within a converted try.

Clearly it's not a binary situation. Fiji had taken some ascendency, our lineout was struggling and then Kuridrani got himself yellow carded with 7 or so minutes to go.

Everyone would have preferred to win with a bonus point. We didn't play well enough for that to happen and Fiji played very well in the second half.

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[Brumby Runner]

Foley better be able to kick his goals too as this will be the difference. I don't think either England or Wales missed a kick.

Either way next week is going to be epic.

I think the goal kicking is our biggest worry against both these sides. Every kick by both Farrell and Biggar went straight as a die. No hook, no fade, Must be easy to just aim and kick.

English cheating scrum next problem that worries me. Kepu will have his work cut out to keep Marler straight. Quite clearly, the refs aren't going to do anything about it.

 

[Groucho]

What the fuck? You actually quoted this:

Look, privately, he must understand the value of bonus points as much as the rest of us. I don't really know why he chose not to acknowledge it in public - perhaps he wanted to avoid any perception that he was throwing Hooper under the bus.

Mate, lighten up. I'm joking. It's not as horrible as it seems.

 

[Lorenzo]

I think the goal kicking is our biggest worry against both these sides. Every kick by both Farrell and Biggar went straight as a die. No hook, no fade, Must be easy to just aim and kick.

Yes there was no mention of all this "can he bring it back arouuuuuuuund" stuff we are used to.

We're a bit fucked on that front.

 

[drewprint]

Ergh.

 

[Braveheart81]

It sounds like you've got an axe to grind more than anything else.

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[Groucho]

I'm not going to suck his dick because he deliberately talks nonsense with the press for no observable gain. Once he actually wins something (meaningful) I'll be much happier for him to run his black box but in the meantime I'd personally prefer he spoke some sense.

Well, he has won the Heineken Cup, the Super 15 and the Rugby Championship.

 

[Lorenzo]

He has won the Heineken Cup, the Super 15 and the Rugby Championship.

The first two make a great resume, the basis on which he got the job.

At test level - he's 4 from 8 against teams in the top 8. Let's not get carried away.

 

[Braveheart81]

No one is getting carried away. It's just a choice not to resort to constant criticism because we didn't get a bonus point.

There's plenty of issues from the Fiji game worthy of discussion and analysis. Pretending that a four try bonus point was missed solely because we didn't take a lineout isn't one of them.

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[Viking]

Seb, you may well prove right but if we were ever to go far we needed to be in a position to push past both England and Wales. I don't agree that Wales have a reasonable shot at us. Injury problems just too much.

Not so much the areas that we ARE better than Enhland, but the areas I expect us to be better:
Scrum
Back movements.
Turn overs.
Rucks.
Hitting the advantage line.
Line Out, for as long as Simmons calls it anyway.
Half.
Aerial ability.

Areas I expect approx parity:
Mauls Attacking.

Areas I expect England to be better:
Discipline (that's a worry)
Line Outs (when Simmons is not on the field)
Pick and go
Maul defence (parity if Skelton is on and fired up)
Kicking in play
Kicking for points.

If I am close, the team that dictates how the game is played will win.

I wish I had your confidence. I think the pace of the game surprised me and now I'm worried.

Scrum - I'm not sure why you think our scrum will be better? We both had similar results against Fiji. This is going to be a close one and we know the ref's will be on the side of the home team.

Back movements - they SHOULD be better but judging from all the tests this year the "movement" has been poor. Not that England will do better but I'm still yet to see slick back-line movements ever since Cheika started coaching. (maybe once with Cooper against SA and the first 15mins against Fiji).

Line outs - it is not a strength anymore - I predict parity with Simmons on the field but I doubt we'd make many steals.

Ariel ability - I disagree here! There is a false sense of security that we are good at this, we arent! Folau is the best in the world at it but he's only one player, the rest are poor. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is okay I guess but from what I've seen the English are better and they will target this area.

Other then that I agree with the rest.

I agree with other posters stating Goal Kicking is a huge concern.

 

[Lorenzo]

No one is getting carried away. It's just a choice not to resort to constant criticism because we didn't get a bonus point.

There's plenty of issues from the Fiji game worthy of discussion and analysis. Pretending that a four try bonus point was missed solely because we didn't take a lineout isn't one of them.

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I'm really only saying that I'd like him to be a bit more honest with the press? Is that such a horrible request? I also think their position on confidence is mildly incongruous with taking the points when you are 12 points up.

If anything maybe you are making poor inferences from my comments?

 

[CatchnPass]

A lot of Wobs-centred negativity on here today. I'm just delighted to have seen the dodgers reamed at 'Fortress Twickenham' and looking forward to seeing the dose repeated next Saturday, which our boys have every chance of achieving. Let's enjoy the moment and get behind the jersey tonight and v the Orcs.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The problem is that the same people complaining about not kicking for the corner from that penalty would be just as critical if we'd kicked for the corner, muffed the lineout and then Fiji had got within a converted try.

Clearly it's not a binary situation. Fiji had taken some ascendency, our lineout was struggling and then Kuridrani got himself yellow carded with 7 or so minutes to go.

Everyone would have preferred to win with a bonus point. We didn't play well enough for that to happen and Fiji played very well in the second half.

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Quite simply, had they gone for the try then TK wouldn't have been in the position that led to his YC.

 

[Lorenzo]

I wish I had your confidence. I think the pace of the game surprised me and now I'm worried.

Scrum - I'm not sure why you think our scrum will be better? We both had similar results against Fiji. This is going to be a close one and we know the ref's will be on the side of the home team.

Back movements - they SHOULD be better but judging from all the tests this year the "movement" has been poor. Not that England will do better but I'm still yet to see slick back-line movements ever since Cheika started coaching. (maybe once with Cooper against SA and the first 15mins against Fiji).

Line outs - it is not a strength anymore - I predict parity with Simmons on the field but I doubt we'd make many steals.

Ariel ability - I disagree here! There is a false sense of security that we are good at this, we arent! Folau is the best in the world at it but he's only one player, the rest are poor. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is okay I guess but from what I've seen the English are better and they will target this area.

Other then that I agree with the rest.

I agree with other posters stating Goal Kicking is a huge concern.

the only decent movement the backs have executed this year is when TK voided his first curry of the trip a fortnight or so ago

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Quite simply, had they gone for the try then TK wouldn't have been in the position that led to his YC.

And if they'd stayed in Cardiff rather than bath etc etc etc

 

[dru]

I wish I had your confidence. I think the pace of the game surprised me and now I'm worried.

Scrum - I'm not sure why you think our scrum will be better? We both had similar results against Fiji. This is going to be a close one and we know the ref's will be on the side of the home team.

Back movements - they SHOULD be better but judging from all the tests this year the "movement" has been poor. Not that England will do better but I'm still yet to see slick back-line movements ever since Cheika started coaching. (maybe once with Cooper against SA and the first 15mins against Fiji).

Line outs - it is not a strength anymore - I predict parity with Simmons on the field but I doubt we'd make many steals.

Ariel ability - I disagree here! There is a false sense of security that we are good at this, we arent! Folau is the best in the world at it but he's only one player, the rest are poor. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is okay I guess but from what I've seen the English are better and they will target this area.

Other then that I agree with the rest.

I agree with other posters stating Goal Kicking is a huge concern.

Hey Bloke! It's time to lay back, crack a beer and enjoy! What I expect and what is reality align rarely. But I'm going in positive.

If we are where Cheika has tried to put us, Wales and England are ropey, but I'm not dissing them, SA are in trouble maybe perking up, ABs are the ABs, France/Ireland?

I think our scrum IS better. What the ref does, dunno, but if it doesn't go the way I think it should, bet it's not one way to the POMS or that they don't give away penalties that should have gone the other way. The ref situation I suspect just works closer to parity.

The backs had to work within a Fiji game that gave them little in offence, but boy did they prove themselves in defence. Personally I like the URU solution more, but the blokes are OK.

With Simmo we won't loose many LOs.

Under the high ball AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is fine. So are Genia (defending at 11) and if he gets a chance QC (Quade Cooper). I'll back Beale too.

I'd rather be a WB right now, than a Boyo or a POM. Yes it can all go pear shaped. Does_not__stop_my_enthusiasm.

 

[teach]

I thought Gatland outcoached Lancaster completely today. Playing a deep backline, with thecut out passes nullifying the English rush defence, allowing them to try and get around the wingers.
Going to be a cracker next weekend. Not often Australia will be cheered on by All Blacks supporters.