RWC: AUS v ENG (Twickenham): POOL A; 6am (AEDT) Sunday 4 October

[chasmac]

It was one hell of a win.
What are peoples thoughts on the second half when England closed the margin to 7 points.
There were definitely some uncomfortable moments leading up to Farrells yellow card.
I haven't watched a replay but I got the feeling that the linespeed slowed in defense for a period. Also the accuracy and structure dipped for a period (Phipps' passes).
Apart from the Yellow Card it seemed that the thing that got us the momentum back was our scrum, and this was with the bench front row.
Its a beautiful feeling to be able to say that.
I hope Forcefield does his analysis and puts some numbers on it.

 

[Braveheart81]

It was definitely the scrum that won us back momentum.

In the end I don't think the yellow card mattered all that much. The penalty was enough (which at the very least was always going to happen after those two simultaneous incidents). The 10 point lead at that point was huge.

Our replacement front row was even more dominant than our starting one. It's amazing how our Achilles heel has now become a real point of strength. They've just got to keep it up.

We should properly destroy the Welsh scrum this weekend. They got dusted up in that department by Fiji. We just need to be right on our game.

 

[Dave Beat]

According to this http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/106514 Burgess received a warning for that and is free to play.

Sam Burgess (England) has received a Citing Commissioner Warning from independent Citing Commissioner Steve Hinds (New Zealand) for a breach of Law 10.4(e) (dangerous high tackle) in the 71st minute of the Rugby World Cup 2015 Pool A match between England and Australia at Twickenham on Saturday, 3 October.
Under the Rugby World Cup 2015 disciplinary programme, a Citing Commissioner Warning equates to a yellow card for the purposes of sanction. A combination of three yellow cards or Citing Commissioner Warnings accumulated during the tournament will result in a hearing. Burgess is therefore free to play in England’s final Pool A match against Uruguay.

My italics added.

Shit me, a head high tackle, taking off some ones head, when he is not in possession of the ball - is considered warning material only when you play for the Poms.

Go try and work that one out.

 

[galumay]

I

I expect one week...

if found guilty, 2 weeks is the lower end of the sanctions.

 

[Braveheart81]

if found guilty, 2 weeks is the lower end of the sanctions.

Not necessarily. A two week sanction would generally be one week if you plead guilty.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Shit me, a head high tackle, taking off some ones head, when he is not in possession of the ball - is considered warning material only when you play for the Poms.

Go try and work that one out.

In most games it would get a Yellow Card. Be a mongrel of a ref to issue a Red Card for what Burgess did, based on my understanding of the guidance issued to Referees.

 

[Dave Beat]

In most games it would get a Yellow Card. Be a mongrel of a ref to issue a Red Card for what Burgess did, based on my understanding of the guidance issued to Referees.

I know which play Burgess compared to Hooper appeared to be more foul than the other - interesting one may get time, the other ?????

 

[WOOLI]

Not necessarily. A two week sanction would generally be one week if you plead guilty.

What happens at the judiciary?

Do you have to plead guilty/not guilty first?

Or do they lay out all the evidence and then ask you what you plead?

 

[A mutterer]

Have we surprised so much with our rediscovered aggression and mongrel that were being judged unfairly?

Are people thinking "shit that aussie just hurt someone and set them on their arse, must be foul play? We haven't seem that from an aussie since last century"

Too many years as the also rans is hurting us at the judiciary?

 

[Dewald Nel]

A presentation even Cipriani will understand.

 

[boyo]

What happens at the judiciary?

Do you have to plead guilty/not guilty first?

Or do they lay out all the evidence and then ask you what you plead?

Take biscuits.

 

[mark_s]

It was one hell of a win.
What are peoples thoughts on the second half when England closed the margin to 7 points.

As someone said on the front page, I was worried until the England winger chipped and chased from his own 22, and the kick went out on the full. That was an awful option and showed the fragility in their game/confidence.

As for Phipps, one pass was a shocker but the other required some Aus forwards to weave so the ball would miss them so I only marked him for one dud pass.

 

[mark_s]

I agree mark, a red would be harsh, especially in a case like this, but if someone is pinned with head exposed and someone takes a potshot with shoulder?? This is where it can be a red card offence, so perhaps it does come under the red card threshold hance the citing. I honestly think an off field YC would be ok, or a warning, but even a week I wouldn't think is tooo harsh.

Agreed Dan except brown wasnt pinned, he was untouched by any other wobbs, he was bending over AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to pick the ball. Anyway hearing shortly. I'll only grumble a little if he gets one week.

 

[the plastic paddy]

This is one inconsistency. It's hard to recall players being red-carded for this in the past 5 years (I'm sure there's a few odd instances, but these cleanouts happen a lot). Which, despite the link to the law posted by Slim above, suggests that most refs don't know it is supposed to be considered as "red", or are wilfully not enforcing it as such. Plus, players yellow-carded for it seldom seem to be cited or actually suspended.
None of which makes what Hooper did OK, but these inconsistent applications of laws do the game no favours.

They have been red carded after the event which doesn't send out quite the same message of deterrence. Jake Ball affected a terrible one on Niall Ronan which basically finished Ronan's career he was out so long. Hooper should get a week and so should Burgess.

 

[mudskipper]

They have been red carded after the event which doesn't send out quite the same message of deterrence. Jake Ball affected a terrible one on Niall Ronan which basically finished Ronan's career he was out so long. Hooper should get a week and so should Burgess.

Not surge if Burgess will be playing for England again anyway... well not for a while yet...

 

[the plastic paddy]

Not surge if Burgess will be playing for England again anyway. well not for a while yet.

I think he will but with only 12 colleagues on the pitch.

 

[cyclopath]

They have been red carded after the event which doesn't send out quite the same message of deterrence. Jake Ball affected a terrible one on Niall Ronan which basically finished Ronan's career he was out so long. Hooper should get a week and so should Burgess.

Yeah, as I said, there will be a few instances people can name, but of all the bad cleanouts that apparently should be red-carded (the threshold for citation remember), not many are.
Problem is, if World Rugby want this type of act out of the game, and they really deem it a red card offence, then officiate it on the field as such consistently, so players know the severe consequence. Then they'll stop. Currently, there is not enough disincentive as they probably won't even get yellow carded, let alone red carded or suspended, in most cases.

 

[Pfitzy]

It was one hell of a win.
What are peoples thoughts on the second half when England closed the margin to 7 points.

I see it like this: we had started to bring some reserves on around the 60 minute mark and things were a little dicey as they settled into the rhythm of the match. This contributed to our defensive line speed slowing as you say, and England got their house in order in terms of the game they wanted to play.

Ford was also an influence with his preference for rugby instead of hoofing the shit out of it. Farrell also started to find the target with his up n unders and Folau didn't have a happy night in the air in general until he was subbed.

However, once our reserves got into the groove, it was clear that their fitness was far superior to England's bench (have a look at their reserve props FFS!) and we just started to smash things again. TPN in particular was almost grabbing guys to come with him and pummel something in a white jersey.

From there, the scrums were just a result of us having the edge in lungs and legs, and England wilted.

They never fucking learn - Super Rugby might look like "basketball rugby" to their upturned noses, but it gives players real aerobic ability to run around teams.

The other factor is Cheika bringing the lessons from the Tahs' functional strength training to the Wallabies. Some of the Pommy forwards were as big as they've ever been in terms of musculature, but it wasn't capable of continuity.

 

[mxyzptlk]

It is decided.

The judiciary found the cleanout met the criteria for a red card offense, and Hooper plead guilty. He misses Wales.

 

[Bairdy]

Bit of a joke really. The cleanout was not deemed worthy of a yellow card (even after the TMO reviewed it) at the time, yet Hooper now has a red card to his name for the same offence JdP was yellow-carded for against Scotland.

Meanwhile, Wood kicks someone unconscious - gets a 'warning', as does Burgess for his tackle.