RWC 2019 1/4 Final England vs Australia

[Brumby Runner]

Presuming we have Pocock and Hooper starting whatever the rest of the selection:
1/ If line out is your driver, choose LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) at 6
2/ If line bending is your driver, choose Naisarani at 8
3/ If you want a halfway house, choose Dempsey at 6.

I'm OK with Naisarani, I'm just not bought into his line out prowess. I'm also unconvinced on England's line out ability in 2019. So I suspect I would start Naisarani - use him in the lineout and be prepared to throw long to Hooper as well. And have LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) on the bench in case it goes pear shaped.

I agree pretty much with your points 1/, 2/ and 3/, but the question was related to who is better than Naisarani at 8, regardless of whether he has been an asset or not at the lineout.

My argument is that Poey isn't as good at the lineout as Isi whatever Isi's form atm, and also doesn't carry the ball in contact as good as Isi. Playing Poey at 8 would likely diminish both the lineout operation and the forward attack around the ruck. He would certainly add more involvements at ruck time than Isi, but that is another question.

Similarly, Dempsey is simply a different style of player to Isi, and probably wouldn't add to the lineout which I understand is the main complaint against Isi. I doubt also that he would be any more effective than Isi carrying the ball and certainly not as good at managing the ball at the back of the scrum. So, again, I don't see any advantage to be gained from playing Dempsey at 8 over Isi.

There are arguments to be made in favour of Pocock or Dempsey playing at 6, but Isi is our stand out option at No 8 and should be starting there against England. As for the other spots, I do think we have a much stronger lineout with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) at 6, and there is no doubting that Pocock offers a lot more than Hooper around the ruck and is also the leading tackler for the Wallabies in the WC. If a strong lineout is the aim, then the backrow should look like 6 LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), 7 Pocock, 8 Naisarani.

 

[Braveheart81]

Your commitment to finding ways not to select Michael Hooper is truly incredible Brumby Runner.

 

[KOB1987]

On a player v player basis I can see the rationale to start Petaia in the 14 jersey.

However, from a strategic point of view I think we should start with Hodge at 14. The reason being that we may get a couple of opportunities early on for c. 55m penalty goals. Once their legs tire a bit and we want to open them up that's the time to bring Petaia on.

I've just convinced myself that's what will happen.

 

[fatprop]

Your commitment to finding ways not to select Michael Hooper is truly incredible Brumby Runner.

Stephen Moore on Hooper

“For me, particularly Michael Hooper, he’s been the Wallabies’ best player for a long time,” Moore told foxsports.com.au.

“You talk about consistency, he’s a guy who plays at a certain level every Test match and for a coach they’re the kind of players you want in your team.
“You know come hell or high water when that whistle blows he’s going to deliver a performance that you can set your watch to around his work rate, his desperation, the way he fights for his mates — and that’s real leadership. And that’s how Michael leads the team.”
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...n/news-story/c820b0c3862397200c9e55a67d297477

 

[Dctarget]

I'm one of the most one-eyed, ardent Pocock supporters out there. I'll shout you down till I'm blue that Pocock was the best 7 in the world, but even I can see Hooper has been so much more useful than Poey recently.

 

[Uh huh]

Look, there is no question that it would be great for Hooper to be 15cm taller and play at blindside or 8; but even as a somewhat non-traditional openside, his qualities are simply undeniable and he cannot be left out at this point. If you want to know who your most important player is, take on the All Blacks and see who spends the entire match being cynically belted about the head and neck. It used to be Pocock; now it's Hooper.

The discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Viking]

I'm one of the most one-eyed, ardent Pocock supporters out there. I'll shout you down till I'm blue that Pocock was the best 7 in the world, but even I can see Hooper has been so much more useful than Poey recently.

I'm in the same boat. Massive Pocock fan. 9 times out of 10 I'd be choosing Pocock ahead of Hooper. Unfortunately this is the 1 out of 10 where Hooper gets the nod (if only one was selected).

 

[Dismal Pillock]

take on the All Blacks and see who spends the entire match being cynically belted about the head and neck.

 

[Spruce Moose]

English papers saying that Vunipola highly likely to play and that Eddie will name an unchanged line up. So XV likely to be:
Daly; Watson, Tuilagi, Farrell, May; Ford, B Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.

So looks like they will keep Kruis to shore up the set pieces instead of picking Lawes.

Still feel the weak point is Ford, I still don't understand why Farrell isn't 10. He is who Kerevi should be running at with a full head of steam. He is also ponderous with the ball and can slow down their attack, plus his kicking game is nothing to write home about.

 

[MarkJ]

However, from a strategic point of view I think we should start with Hodge at 14. The reason being that we may get a couple of opportunities early on for c. 55m penalty goals. Once their legs tire a bit and we want to open them up that's the time to bring Petaia on.

If White starts he'd be able to take those shots at goal. Might not quite have the range of Hodge but not far off it. Or at least he used to, not sure how much kicking at goal he's done since he's been overseas.

 

[Viking]

English papers saying that Vunipola highly likely to play and that Eddie will name an unchanged line up. So XV likely to be:
Daly; Watson, Tuilagi, Farrell, May; Ford, B Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.

So looks like they will keep Kruis to shore up the set pieces instead of picking Lawes.

Still feel the weak point is Ford, I still don't understand why Farrell isn't 10. He is who Kerevi should be running at with a full head of steam. He is also ponderous with the ball and can slow down their attack, plus his kicking game is nothing to write home about.

Curry & Underhill V Hooper and Pocock is a great match up.

 

[Ulrich]

On a player v player basis I can see the rationale to start Petaia in the 14 jersey.

However, from a strategic point of view I think we should start with Hodge at 14. The reason being that we may get a couple of opportunities early on for c. 55m penalty goals. Once their legs tire a bit and we want to open them up that's the time to bring Petaia on.

I've just convinced myself that's what will happen.

England have been one of the most disciplined teams, if not the most disciplined. Also conceded the fewest points. They will be a tough nut to crack.

 

[Braveheart81]

English papers saying that Vunipola highly likely to play and that Eddie will name an unchanged line up. So XV likely to be:
Daly; Watson, Tuilagi, Farrell, May; Ford, B Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.

On a side note, the practice of listing teams from 15-9 then 1-8 is completely ridiculous and makes no sense.

I have no idea why the Northern Hemisphere in particular persist with it.

 

[fatprop]

I'm one of the most one-eyed, ardent Pocock supporters out there. I'll shout you down till I'm blue that Pocock was the best 7 in the world, but even I can see Hooper has been so much more useful than Poey recently.

Pocock is coming to the end of his career and has had his body smashed and is watching the game's rule make his core skill become near impossible to get dominance

In years past he was able to get multiple turnovers and that just isn't possible anymore

 

[molman]

I'm looking forward to this one. When's the team due to drop, tomorrow?

Been interesting reading some of the random comments in this thread, from referee conspiracies to people making claims of Naisarani lineout work (he's the second most targeted receiver after Arnold this RWC btw), to ruminations about Pocock's waining star and the evolving breakdown situation (aka referees not policing things).

I hope the game is a ripper and the referees and TMO's let he boys play. Don't want this one to be decided before things even get started like the Argentina v. England game or some of those momentum shifting reviews in our game against Wales.

I think we're a chance if we can get off to a good start. I believe a big factor in this game will be how the players deal with the top inches. I'd also love to see us exercise some patience and respect around building pressure. We have a chronic tendency as a team to let the pressure valve off for teams through lack of concentration, poor choices or seemingly rushing things which ultimately manifests in an error of some sort.

 

[kiap]

listing teams from 15-9 then 1-8 is completely ridiculous and makes no sense.

I'm not a fan of it, but it sort of does make sense from a historical perspective.

A look at the rugby league numbering of today gives a clue:



From the thumbnail (click to view), the order is:

Fullback to halfback (1-7)
Front row (8-10)
2nd row (11-12)
Backrow (13)

The same order was used in rugby union back in the day (~ 70 years ago). The Brits kept to that order but switched to using modern jersey numbers.

 

[Viking]

Pocock is coming to the end of his career and has had his body smashed and is watching the game's rule make his core skill become near impossible to get dominance

In years past he was able to get multiple turnovers and that just isn't possible anymore

The rules are the same. There was the exact same argument last RWC: "it's harder to get turnovers - he won't be able to get turnovers anymore - the rules are against it now blah blah".... and then he came out and was close the player of the tournament.

Looking at this tournament there have been numerous turnover (although not from Poey). The Scotland 7 had a few against Japan, The Fiji 7 had a few against us.

In the England Itoje, Curry, and Underhill are known to get regular turnovers.

It is still a huge part of the game. Although this season Poey has been a bit slower, there is still opportunity there. The rules haven't changed in years and Poey has been successful for years (this is literally the only time he hasn't been).

 

[cyclopath]

The rules are the same. There was the exact same argument last RWC: "it's harder to get turnovers - he won't be able to get turnovers anymore - the rules are against it now blah blah".. and then he came out and was close the player of the tournament.

Looking at this tournament there have been numerous turnover (although not from Poey). The Scotland 7 had a few against Japan, The Fiji 7 had a few against us.

In the England Itoje, Curry, and Underhill are known to get regular turnovers.

It is still a huge part of the game. Although this season Poey has been a bit slower, there is still opportunity there. The rules haven't changed in years and Poey has been successful for years (this is literally the only time he hasn't been).

The laws are the same, but the manner in which they are enforced is fluid. Cleaning out at this RWC has been something of a dog's breakfast, with regards to enforcement. I think it is harder. I think also, Pocock is clearly being very tightly marked, as ever. Yeah, opportunities are there, but I do think it's tougher.

 

[Derpus]

On a side note, the practice of listing teams from 15-9 then 1-8 is completely ridiculous and makes no sense.

I have no idea why the Northern Hemisphere in particular persist with it.

Because they spend all their time indoors and are by and large completely insane.

 

[Viking]

The laws are the same, but the manner in which they are enforced is fluid. Cleaning out at this RWC has been something of a dog's breakfast, with regards to enforcement. I think it is harder. I think also, Pocock is clearly being very tightly marked, as ever. Yeah, opportunities are there, but I do think it's tougher.

I think it really depends on the ref and how they interpret the breakdown. I couldn't help thinking watching the Scotland V Japan game that Pocock would have carved it up.

But then his turnovers against Fiji (i think it was Fiji) were penalised which seemed legal at first glace.

You may be right, but I think only slightly tougher - certainly not enough to drop a specialist fetcher, especially one regarded the best in the world - if he was in form.

I think his form is the bigger issue regarding his selection, I wouldn't even be considering the laws if he was playing in his previous years form.