RWC 2015

[rugbyskier]

An update on the joke going around last week.

An Englishman walks into a bar. . . .

This time he is joined by a Welshman, an Irishman, a Scotsman and a Frenchman. The Kiwi, Japie, Aussie and Argie couldn't make it, they're going to Twickenham.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2015/09/13/foreign-born-players-rwc-2015/

Contrary to popular belief about some countries raiding others for talent, if this article is to believed, NZL and AUS are the primary exporters of talent at RWC 2015. I added one in to the total for Wales to cover the late call up of Gareth Anscombe.

"Exporting" countries
New Zealand, 40 players born in NZ that represented a Nation other than NZ at RWC 2015
Australia, 17
England, 15
South Africa, 15
Fiji, 6
Tonga, 6
Argentina, 5
Zimbabwe, 4
Ireland, 2
Spain, 2
Algeria, 1
American Samoa, 1
Belgium, 1
Burkina Faso, 1
Cote d’Ivoire, 1
DR Congo, 1
Georgia, 1
Israel, 1
Netherlands, 1
Nigeria, 1
Papua New Guinea, 1
Russia, 1
Saudi Arabia, 1
Scotland, 1
USA, 1
Wales, 1


Who have been the receiving countries:
Samoa, 13
Wales, 13
Tonga, 12
Japan, 11
Scotland, 11
France, 10
Australia, 9
Italy, 9
USA, 9
Canada, 6
Ireland, 5
New Zealand, 5
Romania, 4
England, 3
Fiji, 3
Namibia, 2
Georgia, 1
South Africa, 1
Uruguay, 1
Argentina, 0

Where are the Aussie Born "Exports" playing and on what grounds?
Wales, 1 - James King (residency 1993)
Tonga, 3 - Jack Ram, Steve Mafi, Tevita Mailau (all Parents)
Japan, 1 - Craig Wing (residency 2013)
New Zealand, 2 - Ben Franks, Tawera Kerr-Barlow (all Parents)
Italy, 2 - Joshua Furno (parent), Luke McLean (Grandparent)
USA, 4 - Al McFarland (residency 2015), Greg Peterson (Grandparent), Hayden Smith (residency 2008), Matt Trouville (residency 2014)
England, 1 - Billy Vunipola (residency 1995)
Fiji, 2 - Ben Volavola, Campese Ma’afu (all Parents)
Canada, 1 - James Pritchard (Grandparent)

Edit: James Pritchard added as per @RugbySkier

 

[rugbyskier]

You can add in James Pritchard who was called up as an injury replacement for the Canadian squad. Born in Parkes, NSW and qualified for Canada with a Canadian born maternal grandfather.

 

[aeneas]

So does Owen Franks not have an Aussie parent then?

 

[Braveheart81]

So does Owen Franks not have an Aussie parent then?

He's adopted.

I don't know how long he lived here, but Elvis Taione would have been Australian qualified at some point before he went to play in the UK.

 

[Highlander35]

Born is a little bit of a silly metric though. I mean yes, Cowan, Hardie, Maitland, Strauss, Nel and Visser, fair cop. 3 kiwis through grandparents, 2 Saffas and a Dutchman by residency.

But the other 5 will be Denton (Zimbabwean born to two Scottish parents raised in Scotland), Seymour (USA born to 2 Scottish parents raised in Scotland), Hidalgo-Clyne (Spanish Born to 2 Scottish parents, raised in Scotland), Wilson (English born to 2 Scottish Parents, raised in Scotland) and Swindon, (English born to 2 Scottish Parents, raised in England).

Why should they count on the foreigners list? I'd argue similarly for players like Franks and Kerr-Barlow, why are they foreigners because their parents were in Australia when they were born.

It's an interesting metric, but when New Zealand and Australia are cultures of Immigrants, along with the increasingly open European borders, is there really any surprise players are representing different sides?

 

[Dewald Nel]

Born is a little bit of a silly metric though. I mean yes, Cowan, Hardie, Maitland, Strauss, Nel and Visser, fair cop. 3 kiwis through grandparents, 2 Saffas and a Dutchman by residency.

But the other 5 will be Denton (Zimbabwean born to two Scottish parents raised in Scotland), Seymour (USA born to 2 Scottish parents raised in Scotland), Hidalgo-Clyne (Spanish Born to 2 Scottish parents, raised in Scotland), Wilson (English born to 2 Scottish Parents, raised in Scotland) and Swindon, (English born to 2 Scottish Parents, raised in England).

Why should they count on the foreigners list? I'd argue similarly for players like Franks and Kerr-Barlow, why are they foreigners because their parents were in Australia when they were born.

It's an interesting metric, but when New Zealand and Australia are cultures of Immigrants, along with the increasingly open European borders, is there really any surprise players are representing different sides?

I don't think anybody really cares what nationality a player is from, except maybe the people in that country where the foreigners play itself. If all 23 in your matchday squad are foreign born and raised until they were 20, and they're all perceived to be better players than any natives, it means that your country is doing something right and giving these players a chance they feel they wouldn't have gotten where they come from, and making them feel at home. Why people see that as a bad thing, only they would know.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's interesting that lots of people have this perception that the Japanese team in particular should all be ethically Japanese whereas it's completely accepted that the Australian and New Zealand teams will be full of PI origin players because of our cultural diversity.

I think we're only going to see this increase over time as globalisation makes countries more homogenised.

We're already seeing plenty of what are essentially second generation players in countries that their father's moved to in order to play professional rugby.

 

[Dewald Nel]

It's interesting that lots of people have this perception that the Japanese team in particular should all be ethically Japanese whereas it's completely accepted that the Australian and New Zealand teams will be full of PI origin players because of our cultural diversity.

I think we're only going to see this increase over time as globalisation makes countries more homogenised.

We're already seeing plenty of what are essentially second generation players in countries that their father's moved to in order to play professional rugby.

Also looking at the English cricket team, with many players of Indian/Asian heritage, but born and bred Brits. If people don't accept this and move on, they're gonna be severely bitter and disappointed, at increasing levels, for the rest of their lives.

It's professional sport. Some countries will deliver a better environment for players.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Picked a scab off a festering wound here.

Many of the countries of birth are accidents of time and space with the lad born in the Pitcairn Islands, during the time his folks were on business doing research into the effects of isolation on Byron Kelliher, being as Dinky Di Aussie as anyone else.

There is a perception that the Pacific Islands (in particular) are being raided for talent with the passion of a cashed up vainglorious President of a GPS School's Rugby Supporters Group at a Year 6 Junior Rep Carnival seeking to fill their annual scholarship quota.

It is not the case at international level ATM.

 

[Dewald Nel]

 

[Jag]

Anyone need tickets for the Semi? Got 2 x Cat B (£315) and 4 x Cat C (£215), face value.

 

[Dewald Nel]

 

[bertnurney]

Anyone looking for tickets for Australia Argentina world cup semi, I have a pairof cat c tickets for £430, cost price, all reasonable offers considered

 

[Dewald Nel]

 

[namtrak]

Back to the Future anyone?

 

[Braveheart81]

Certainly room for the argument that NZ, SA, Aus and Arg become the Tier 1A nations and get a bigger share of the RWC profits next time around for providing the quality and making the event a big financial drawcard.

 

[Dewald Nel]

Certainly room for the argument that NZ, SA, Aus and Arg become the Tier 1A nations and get a bigger share of the RWC profits next time around for providing the quality and making the event a big financial drawcard.

In my eyes that would make the RC the unofficial annual world championship.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Hasn't it been so since it's inception?

Good joke doing the rounds about the IRB announcing a RWC plate competition for minnow nations that it will run in March each year and be called the 6 Nations Championship.

 

[Braveheart81]

In my eyes that would make the RC the unofficial annual world championship.

You would use the Rugby Championship to determine who gets allocated to each pool. Winner of the Rugby Championship gets allocated to the easiest pool etc.