RWC 2015 Semi Final 2 - Australia v Argentina Twickenham, Monday 19 October, 2:45 AEDT

[Pfitzy]

41min: No look pass to Fardy who drops it. I put more blame on Fardy for this one but it's yet another error with Foley's involvment. Poor communication and pushing passes again.

Have a look at yourself.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Thanks for that! I'll be the first to admit i had no idea what we could expect when i was told haematoma on the elbow.

You'll all have to forgive my complete lack of knowledge with our front row situation, but is Slipper our best option as replacement?

Yes, when he came on the scrum stabilised. His experience would have helped earlier in the game. He was dropped because of his shoulder but I think the limited minutes he's been getting will have helped that. Certainly we've maintained our dominance in each game when we've changed from Sio to Slipper. There's really not a lot in it at scrum time, his injury is preventing him around the park more than anything from what I've seen.

 

[jollyswagman]

Hard to say. It could be a haematoma in a muscle sheath, like a corked thigh for example, but from a muscle tear maybe not a direct blow. If it is secondary to tendon damage, I would think it is far more serious, where a minor muscle tear might be less so. In any event, I'll be amazed if he plays, given the way he was holding it going off.
That's my inexpert opinion!!

Cheers for that!

 

[Slim 293]

Is Sio our only player to have started in every game this World Cup?

 

[KOB1987]

Is Sio our only player to have started in every game this World Cup?

Yep

 

[Braveheart81]

Is Sio our only player to have started in every game this World Cup?

Yes. He was the only player who started against Fiji who also started against Uruguay.

Moore, Kepu, Douglas, Fardy, Genia, Foley, Giteau, Kuridrani, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) have started four games.

 

[dru]

Tough gig to be an Aussie first five.

You just cannot play a bad game. It simply is not tolerated.

Foley has gone from hero to zero in a lot of people's eyes. That is beyond ridiculous.

I think as fans we sometimes have no idea how big the pressure can get.

Yep I kind of agree that first 5 is a tough gig in Aus. But there is a lot of head in the sand happening. The fly fundamental job is distribution, and with it organisation. Genia Fed a lot away from Foley which eased his situation. Then both Beale and Gittau stepped in to support. He needed it. His kicking game was poor (kicks in play).

Otoh in defence he was "protected" on the wing, which I agree with, but it put him into an increased stress with high ball and the wide defence. His tackling was really good.

But no, I don't think he has gone from hero to zero. He has gone from marginally, and arguably not, just in front of his main challenge, to the game of a career, and stepped steadily back to form.

I'd be starting him, and I wouldn't have Quade on the pine. But he needs to be back on the England game form if we are to have a chance going forward. I don't have a problem with Foley, just the deliberate hysteria from some of his fans.

I think his three first half kick misses aren't important. He adjusted. And his final pressure kick is to be lauded.

 

[emuarse]

All I will say about the Cooper v Foley thing going on is this. There is a blinding hypocrisy when discussing any mistakes Cooper makes and mistakes Foley makes. When Cooper makes them, he is criticised and hung, drawn and quartered in the public forum, with absolute no lee way given for any good he does in the same game and there are no excuses for any of his poor play.
When Foley makes the same mistakes or other mistakes, he is cut slack, blame is often passed to others, excuses are given and in complete contrast to Cooper, it is standard practice to, as much as possible, ignore the bad plays and focus on the good plays, even though things like kicking a match winning goal at the death wouldn't have been needed if he hadn't made those poor plays.

The rule around here is - Cooper does bad, ignore the good, focus on the bad
Foley does bad, ignore the bad, focus on the good

It is clearly too much for some to judge all players by the same standards.

I think a reason for this, is that in Australia a large portion of the fan base, and players, is originally from New zealand, the majority of whom still hold a long term grudge against QC (Quade Cooper) for what he did to their knight in shining armor, Sir Wrecthard McCraw, in Brisbane in 2011. He instantly became public enemy No 1, which was further exaberated by his disgruntlement with Robbie Dean and the ' yellow jersey' incident.
Led by the Kiwi expatriates, other fans joined in the chorus of howling QC (Quade Cooper) down whenever he made a mistake on the field.
Possibly because he also was originally a Kiwi

 

[Spruce Moose]

Yes, when he came on the scrum stabilised. His experience would have helped earlier in the game. He was dropped because of his shoulder but I think the limited minutes he's been getting will have helped that. Certainly we've maintained our dominance in each game when we've changed from Sio to Slipper. There's really not a lot in it at scrum time, his injury is preventing him around the park more than anything from what I've seen.

I'm not so worried about Slipper but Smith, lack of game time and stepping into to a RWC semi towards the end against a fairly decent pack. What is Argentina's depth like in the tight 5?

Have only watched the highlights of the Ire/Arg game but it looked like the scoreline made the game look more one-sided than it actually was.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think a reason for this, is that in Australia a large portion of the fan base, and players, is originally from New zealand, the majority of whom still hold a long term grudge against QC (Quade Cooper) for what he did to their knight in shining armor, Sir Wrecthard McCraw, in Brisbane in 2011. He instantly became public enemy No 1, which was further exaberated by his disgruntlement with Robbie Dean and the ' yellow jersey' incident.

First point about Kiwis: rot.

Second point about Deans: some merit, but he basically slagged his employer in public. If you or I hopped onto social media or started preaching that your company was a pack of degenerates on a soap box outside their HQ, we'd suffer the same exclusion.

Led by the Kiwi expatriates, other fans joined in the chorus of howling QC (Quade Cooper) down whenever he made a mistake on the field.

Bullshit. A lot of us are pulling hard for Quade to get back into form and put some heat on Foley.

But we can't live in the past and talk about Quade's "potential" being better than Foley's "actual".

This kind of thinking is unmitigated paranoia from the same channel that brought you "EVERYTHING IS A NSW PLOT!"

 

[Groucho]

I don't know a single Australian who got behind the Kiwi booing Quade campaign. There was universal condemnation of that on here and in the real Australia.

 

[Pfitzy]

And in a lot of NZ too - at least after the first few times it happened, and they won RWC2011.

It was with immense pride I watched him kick every fucking goal in Dunedin when they booed the shit out of him. And a LOT of people in black jerseys started to look sideways at each other based on his performance there.

I'd love for him to come back to form, but while Foley is kicking high 80s and tackling 100% he's hard to drop in a winning team.

 

[Gnostic]

First point about Kiwis: rot.

Second point about Deans: some merit, but he basically slagged his employer in public. If you or I hopped onto social media or started preaching that your company was a pack of degenerates on a soap box outside their HQ, we'd suffer the same exclusion.




Bullshit. A lot of us are pulling hard for Quade to get back into form and put some heat on Foley.

But we can't live in the past and talk about Quade's "potential" being better than Foley's "actual".

This kind of thinking is unmitigated paranoia from the same channel that brought you "EVERYTHING IS A NSW PLOT!"

Depends on the employer. Some are shit and know it and a termination will basically come down to what the truth is and whether the employer knows you have the good oil on them. Just don't expect any assignment except unblocking toilets after speaking out. That certainly isn't the case with what happened to Quade over that saga.


Now apart from that history, I have been a huge fan of Cooper ever since he got rid of the mullet. The fact is that his run of injuries has been disastrous and he hasn't played enough consistently to run into any form. I firmly believe that he knows that and his immense frustration played into the woeful discipline he has had over the last twelve months with the three yellows. The facts remain pretty indisputable, actual form trumps potential when the risk/reward hasn't played out in recent times. No conspiracy needed, just some calm logic.

 

[Straith]

Bullshit. A lot of us are pulling hard for Quade to get back into form and put some heat on Foley.

But we can't live in the past and talk about Quade's "potential" being better than Foley's "actual".

Thats the thing though. Bar Coopers one off game with the boot, how out of form actually is he? He might be 5% below his best which, in some books, is still better than Foleys 'actual'.

 

[Pfitzy]

Thats the thing though. Bar Coopers one off game with the boot

, how out of form actually is he? He might be 5% below his best which, in some books, is still better than Foleys 'actual'.

Well, I think if we ask Cheika about that, he'll give us a straight answer in the form of team selection.

No, wait - he already has.

 

[Straith]

Well, I think if we ask Cheika about that, he'll give us a straight answer in the form of team selection.

No, wait - he already has.

We're not calling for his selection...
Edit: Chieka doesn't have a choice when Foley plays his career best game in the 2nd last game of the Pool. After that game you wouldn't have swapped him against Wales. And after that match its too late to invest time into anyone else. Point I am making is that Foley hasn't been able to keep his form after the England game and has fallen back to the normal average Foley we have seen play for the past 2 years. (and in my personal opinion that normal form from Foley is JUST not enough to warrent his selection over Cooper, not saying Foleys garbage, just not as good) His England game was one outlier timed perfectly to cement his position at 10. I for sure hope he does pick up that England form this weekend cause we will fecking need it.

 

[Scotty]

Foley's biggest mistake came in the second half when he gave away a try. His struggles in the first half were mostly goal kicking related.

The question has been raised as to why Cheika didn't use his bench. I'm trying to analyse that and come up with reasoning why.

The comment "Cheika should have used his bench" doesn't really mean a whole lot without trying to ascertain when and how he should have done that.

When do you think Cooper and To'omua should have been brought on and for who?

I would have had To'omua on at about the 50th minute as it was clear we needed to straighten the attack and that Giteau was either just passing wide to the wing or making fairly ineffective runs himself.

I wouldn't have put Cooper on at all.

 

[Tahtrajic]

It's been said already but please let's drop the Quade V Foley its been said and said over and over from all sides. How about we start talking about something like will the scrum work or will the wallabies be as passive at times in defending again.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Geez it's going to be a long week.......

 

[Mr Doug]

Geez it's going to be a long week...

Yes, on this bloody "B Foley v Q Cooper" thread, it is.