RUPA supports a Draft System - Wayne Smith 'Australian'

[Caputo]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...m/news-story/7869abea45dc68bdbd3fb59c25af6f59

From behind the Paywall.

That represents a massive shift in RUPA’s historical position on the subject. Until now, not only has a draft been off the table in discussions but Clause 21 of the CBA specifically states that no rugby body is able “to transfer, draft or require a player to play in a state or territory other than that in which he is domiciled”. and
'might be prepared to accept players being directed interstate if it could be worked into a broader package that achieved fairness for the players while also addressing competitive balance and competitive sustainability.'

 

[Slim 293]

I just don't see how a draft could possibly work considering all of the various pathways there are.........

Where are we drafting players from?

We don't have the equivalent of the US college system or the AFL's U18's program.........

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

The simple reason a draft won't work is because unlike AFL or NFL, there's plenty of alternatives in rugby.

If you don't want to move from Sydney or Brisbane, you shouldn't have to. But if you are forced to, you might as well take the bigger money to play in France as opposed to Perth.

The Force and the Rebels are signing all these marquee players to fill out their bench while great club players get ignored. Frankly, a lack of local players isn't why these teams are struggling.

 

[Highlander35]

That's a fun comment. I'm certain that the Rebels could have picked up a better 3rd string tighthead than Irish International Jamie Hagan, I mean that's why the Tahs plucked Ta'avau out of a proud Shield Club! Wait, he came from Aukland?

How about that Sam Lousi, he looks a player, why did the Rebels go for a 50 Super cap Lock from the blues instead of someone like him. What? You say he's been taken from the NZ Warriors reserve squad? Well, I don't believe that.

How about that Nick Phipps eh? Plucked straight from the Club Rugby system to the tahs, what a player. Oh. He was plucked from Club Rugby for the Rebels, then they brought him home. Well I'm sure the Tahs had a number of quality, home grown halfbacks at the time, that's why they didn't need him. Wait, that's right, Sarel Pretorius, and Grayson Hart.

It's not as extreme as it's being portrayed, but the Tahs are better only because of Geography. Reece Robinson and Taquele Naiyaravoro taken from Rugby League, Zac Guildford when he couldn't get a NZ contract.

 

[Slim 293]

Also, the ARU couldn't afford to invest in another national junior competition to aid the prospect of a draft..........

The Shute Shield fanatics would lose their god damn shit!

 

[Caputo]

Further selective quote

"Wallabies coach Michael Cheika has repeatedly warned that a draft would be pointless if all it achieved was an equalisation of talent in the Australian franchises that created five teams that basically finish mid-table. Only if a way could be found to make all of those teams competitive against the best side from the New Zealand and South African conferences would it serve a useful purpose."

Now that we are in conference play and don't play all teams and conference leaders guaranteed for finals. Five strong teams might be bad as well as good for Wallabies

I am not sure on what they mean by Draft. Here are three versions
1. Players under the age of 20 and limited to the last five on the roster
2. All players out of contract.
3. The NZ version where each team nominates 25 players to keep and the last 10 are in the draft. 5& 6 Props, 3rd Hooker and Halfback, some outside backs etc

 

[ChargerWA]

Brumbies, Tahs and Reds fans all sitting there with their fingers in their ears going "lalalalalalala the status quo is fine, and changes wouldn't work lalalalalalala"

 

[Slim 293]

Brumbies, Tahs and Reds fans all sitting there with their fingers in their ears going "lalalalalalala the status quo is fine, and changes wouldn't work lalalalalalala"

Don't forget to add the Wallabies coach in there too.........

But more importantly.........

Where are we drafting players from?

 

[qwerty51]

Draft can't work in a sport where there are opportunities overseas.

 

[Forcefield]

A draft is a stupid idea. It will never work.

A draft would only serve to benefit the Force and the Rebels and frankly there are better ways of doing that. We need more local talent. I feel a bit irritable about Nick Jooste going to the Brumbies. If the ARU want to be useful, they should be helping to prevent that from happening, but I am confident Jooste will come back after the two years are up. Time will help us out. The NRC needs time to help us produce local players who are Super Rugby ready.

Slowing the player drain would help. Speaking only from a prop perspective, I feel a bit like the Brumbies and Reds are warehousing props where the Force and Waratahs could definitely use some of those guys. Good planning from the Brumbies and Reds but I fear that when those guys aren't getting game time they will go overseas rather than to another Aus franchise.

The other thing the ARU could do is to find ways of helping franchises to bring players back from overseas into Aus rugby. Too many players are leaving at too young an age.

Maybe it is in everyone's best interests if the Force and Rebels are encouraged (with ARU financial support) to bring overseas players back (the likes of Ben Lucas, Hugh Pyle, PAE, etc). This would mean that the Force and Rebels aren't competing as much for QLD or NSW based players. I doubt that would be a popular move though.

 

[ChargerWA]

Without equitable player distribution, you might as well shut the Force down and start the Western Sydney Super team the rumours are circulating about.

1. The point of the Force is to increase the player pool of professional rugby players in Australia.
2. Short term, it would be an opportunity for interstate players who maybe can't get a game elsewhere, but eventually it would be mostly development of local talent.
3. But while the Force are uncompetitive it doesn't capture the imagination of young West Aussies so there is a natural ceiling on the number of talented enough locals available to be developed.

There are only two ways forward. Equitable player distribution or wait for the inevitable failure of the Force.

 

[Forcefield]

I don't agree with that. Things are changing. What is being offered in the last few years by the NRC and national U20s will provide the pathway forward. It is just frustrating that this didn't all happen 5 to 10 years sooner. The Force simply need to survive another 5 years to truly reap the benefits of what is being sown.

I've come to the conclusion that an overhaul of the organisation and some new coaches wouldn't hurt either. I reckon we need to invest in the best in the business for a junior coach.

 

[fatprop]

A draft is illegal under Aus Law, first time a player challenges it, it is gone.

It is a restraint on trade and collusion by employers to limit the opportunities of employees

 

[I like to watch]

Yep, Dennis Tutty is the precedent.

 

[ChargerWA]

I've come to the conclusion that an overhaul of the organisation and some new coaches wouldn't hurt either. I reckon we need to invest in the best in the business for a junior coach.

How about a decent coach for the Force first. How the fuck did the ARU let the Force take him in. And who was the CEO who extended his contract till the end of 2017 on previous results! It just stinks of acceptance of mediocrity.

 

[Slim 293]

Without equitable player distribution, you might as well shut the Force down and start the Western Sydney Super team the rumours are circulating about.

1. The point of the Force is to increase the player pool of professional rugby players in Australia.
2. Short term, it would be an opportunity for interstate players who maybe can't get a game elsewhere, but eventually it would be mostly development of local talent.
3. But while the Force are uncompetitive it doesn't capture the imagination of young West Aussies so there is a natural ceiling on the number of talented enough locals available to be developed.

There are only two ways forward. Equitable player distribution or wait for the inevitable failure of the Force.

Nice speech, but there's already a salary cap, aaaaaaand..........

Where are we drafting players from?

 

[The_Wookie]

A draft is illegal under Aus Law, first time a player challenges it, it is gone.

It is a restraint on trade and collusion by employers to limit the opportunities of employees

The only draft that was ever tested in court - The NSWRL draft - was an internal draft that involved players already under contract to clubs. It should be noted that the court did not say that draft systems were wrong – only the NSWRL one before it, and the court itself suggested that changing the rules would make it a reasonable restraint. It should be noted that the NSWRL case concluded that much of the problem was because the players in question were no longer under contract. To compound the problem, this was the only way for players to change clubs at the time, hence the restraint.

The AFL system allows drafting for a 2 year period, before allowing players to change clubs via trade, preseason or national drafts., and now has a limited free agency system in play. Importantly, the players union has agreed to the draft in its CBA.

The AFL draft has never been challenged in all the years since the NSWRL case primarily since the players and player association all signed on. Its thought that when combined with the salary cap that the AFL could quite easily prove that it achieves its aims of a more even and competitive league.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Nice speech, but there's already a salary cap, aaaaaaand....

ARU payments massively distort the salary cap though. Love to see what the total of each teams "actual" salary payments are.

 

[fatprop]

The only draft that was ever tested in court - The NSWRL draft - was an internal draft that involved players already under contract to clubs. It should be noted that the court did not say that draft systems were wrong – only the NSWRL one before it, and the court itself suggested that changing the rules would make it a reasonable restraint. It should be noted that the NSWRL case concluded that much of the problem was because the players in question were no longer under contract. To compound the problem, this was the only way for players to change clubs at the time, hence the restraint.

The AFL system allows drafting for a 2 year period, before allowing players to change clubs via trade, preseason or national drafts., and now has a limited free agency system in play. Importantly, the players union has agreed to the draft in its CBA.

The AFL draft has never been challenged in all the years since the NSWRL case primarily since the players and player association all signed on. Its thought that when combined with the salary cap that the AFL could quite easily prove that it achieves its aims of a more even and competitive league.

As are new players not signed to contracts, that are "forced" to sign contracts to play for teams they don't want to play for and/or move states

Let me know of an industry (say the legal industry or medical industry) where it would be legal for new employees to be put in a draft; and if not legal in those, then why in a professional sport?

So say the best legal graduate is sent to a country town as the number one draft pick

 

[Strewthcobber]

A draft is illegal under Aus Law, first time a player challenges it, it is gone.

It is a restraint on trade and collusion by employers to limit the opportunities of employees

If RUPA is supporting it, it'd be pretty unlikely that it would ever end up in court though right? Like the AFL draft