Rules question, the tackled player

[fatprop]

OK, we now have tacklers releasing the attacking player or being penalised, but when did it became allowable for attackers to start crawling along the ground or getting up and running the ball once released

I thought a tackled player had to place the ball or could release the ball get to his feet and then pick the ball up.

 

[TOCC]

you cant crawl, but they can get up if they arent effectively tackled, like if they are ankle tapped or the tackler falls off then they are allowed to get up and keep going as long as the momentum continues.

 

[Biffo]

OK, we now have tacklers releasing the attacking player or being penalised, but when did it became allowable for attackers to start crawling along the ground or getting up and running the ball once released

I thought a tackled player had to place the ball or could release the ball get to his feet and then pick the ball up.

Great question. I have noticed the same. The referees could pay a lot more attention to the ball carrier being tackled and his legal options thereafter - there is only one, release the ball.

 

[fatprop]

you cant crawl, but they can get up if they arent effectively tackled, like if they are ankle tapped of the tackler falls off then they are allowed to get up and keep going as long as the momentum continues.

But how does the tackler judge that?

 

[Ash]

They can't, but they can use common sense. Refs need to yell quickly and clearly if there is any doubt.

Been seeing this a lot too, saw the Beast get correctly pinged for it either this weekend or last weekend - everything is running together for me today - but a lot of players are trying to keep on going illegally.

My understanding of the rule is that if a member of the opposing team touches the ball carrier on the ground at any time, then the ball is tackled and must release. The ball carrier is on the ground when his knees are touching the ground. Someone

My gripe is that (quite often, I think) there is a situation where the ball carrier is tackled around the ankles, and the tackler releases (sometimes becauses the ball carrier rolls on the ground) and the ball carrier illegally goes again, and normally gets away with it. Other times the tackler falls off before the ball carrier hits the ground and the ball carrier continues, legally this time. I'd like to see it reffed a bit more.

I guess the moral of the story is to hold on to the feet a bit longer if your are the tackler.

That, and rolling after being tackled should be controlled more by the ref. One or two penalties in the game and it can stop, rather quickly.

 

[Lee Grant]

I started this post a while ago and left it for a late lunch. Others may have covered the ground already but I'll post it anyway.



They are definitely not allowed to crawl. The laws mention only 3 things a tackled player can do:

Law 15 Tackle: Ball Carrier Brought to Ground

(b) A tackled player must immediately pass the ball or release it. That player must also get up
or move away from it at once. Penalty: Penalty Kick

(c) A tackled player may release the ball by putting it on the ground in any direction, provided
this is done immediately. Penalty: Penalty Kick

(d) A tackled player may release the ball by pushing it along the ground in any direction except
forward, provided this is done immediately. Penalty: Penalty Kick

He can't get up with the ball in his hand


BUT according to the definitions: to be tackled you have to be held. Therefore if a player is tackled but comes free on impact with the ground he is allowed to play on and get up with the ball. He can also do that if the tackler has released him voluntarily. Thus a tackler should hang on for a sneaky heartbeat or two by which time his troops will be closer - but not after the tackled player has released the pill and is trying to get up to pick it up again and play on. In that case the tackler would be penalised with more certainty.

Nor can the tackler use the body of the tackled player to get himself up, whether the tackled player has released the ball, or not.

There have been a few cases this year where the tackler has found that the tackled player he released has got to his feet and gone upfield with out him. The law crackdown has discouraged him from hanging onto the tackled player and/or using the tackled player to swing himself up. If he has tackled around the legs and is further from his own goal line than the tackled opponent he can be embarrassed.

Too bad. It is a reward for the tackled player for getting to a place where the tackler has no helpers and avoiding a front on hit. So long as the ref is satisfied that neither player has held on. everything is hunky dory. Let us not forget that the first item of the tackle transaction is for tacklers to release.


PS - there is no definition of "held" in the laws but one would imagine more than touching the player would be needed. Maybe in rugby league.

 

[Scotty]

There have been a few cases this year where the tackler has found that the tackled player he released has got to his feet and gone upfield with out him. The law crackdown has discouraged him from hanging onto the tackled player and/or using the tackled player to swing himself up. If he has tackled around the legs and is further from his own goal line than the tackled opponent he can be embarrassed.

Too bad. It is a reward for the tackled player for getting to a place where the tackler has no helpers and avoiding a front on hit. So long as the ref is satisfied that neither player has held on. everything is hunky dory. Let us not forget that the first item of the tackle transaction is for tacklers to release.

Not sure if the second bolded bit applies to the first bolded bit, but it isn't too bad for the tackler, it is against the laws for the tackled player to not release the ball after being tackled. If the tackler has done the right thing by the laws of the game, then surely the laws pertaining to the tackled player must also be enforced?

By the way, did anyone else think there was some doubt over the Baxter try on the weekend for similar reasons? I didn't see a replay yet, but it appeared to me that he was crawling around a bit in there.

 

[Ash]

Lee - yes, maybe I am confused with league. Touching a ball carrier on the ground in league is definitely considered enough for a tackle.

 

[the gambler]

I hope the refs will start pinging tackled players that dont roll away from the ball once they have played it. Particularly when the defending team is legally counter rucking. I know it is a big ask to expect the refs to actually enforce all the laws but it would be a good challenge to at least try. The laying the egg tactic really annoys me as it is clearly illegal.

 

[TheRiddler]

(d) A tackled player may release the ball by pushing it along the ground in any direction except
forward, provided this is done immediately. Penalty: Penalty Kick

This may explain the weird conversation between the ref and the TMO on Saturday after WP Nel scored his try. The TMO kept referring to WP Nel placing the ball and then 'promoting' it. Maybe if he just said "Look Keith, I believe the cheating saffa has violated rule 15d and therefore no try" it would have been a whole lot easier - but nowhere near as much fun as seeing Mr Brown try to work out what he was being told and what he should do about it.

 

[Lee Grant]

I think that Brown and AR Leckie were as thick as bricks not to pick up on the vibes given out by the TMO. TMOs are often shit scared to go outside of protocols. He shouldn't have said the ball was 'promoted' forward. He should have said it was 'pushed' forward, which is illegal or picked up after it had been under his wrist and then placed, which is also illegal. (I forget which happened now.)

Brown should have asked the key question: "Was it promoted legally?" which would have cut through the crap but better still would have been for the TMO to answer the original question asked which was: "Try/no try?" in one or two words.

But Riddler is right - it was more fun the way it was done.

 

[Lindommer]

TMOs are often shit scared to go outside of protocols.

You're quite right here, Lee, they are shit scared of going outside of protocols. I got George Ayoub in a corner recently (he and I occasionally cross paths at a certain Sydney establishment) and interrogated him about the incident against the Saffers in Brisbane last year. You all may recall George was the TMO in the incident when Genia was tackled inside the 10m from a penalty mark while he attempted to place the ball over the goal line. George (reasonably and probably correctly ruled "no try") but the ref, Barnes, asked George what he should do next. George replied: "well, there was a penalty"; George was trying to alert him to the fact the Saffers tackled Genia without retiring 10m and should probably have awarded a penalty try.

Now the upshot of all this is Ayoub copped "a kick in the bum" from the iRB, as he put it, and was told not to "do that again" or he'll be dropped from international officiating.

The original article and my comments are at: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/index.php?topic=9309.msg46891#msg46891

 

[Lee Grant]

I got George Ayoub in a corner recently (he and I occasionally cross paths at a certain Sydney establishment)

What's the price of a half and half these days?


That was tough on George, wasn't it? I remember it now. Perhaps George should have said: "Should I mention that the Boks weren't back 10 metres when they tackled Genia and were never put onside?" Or when Barnes asked what should happen next: "Is that in the context of a penalty try being awarded since a try would probably have been scored but for the infringement of the tacklers?"

I remember Paddy O'Brien in an NPC game asking if the ball had been a knocked on by the try scorer when both he and the last defender were reaching up for a high bouncing ball - and it was 10 metres out. POB didn't worry too much about protocols.

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since he did that and the protocols have probably changed since then, but in 2008/09 a French referee in a Top14 game asked the TMO if the ball had been knocked on near the 22 before a try was scored !!!

 

[naza]

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing this bullshit.

What really gets me is when Craig Joubert, fuckwit that he is, screams 'not held' all the time, and allows the ball carrier who has been tackled, to get up and keep fucking going. Uh, no, sorry, it doesn't work that way gimp.

Tackler makes the tackle but doesn't roll away within 15 microseconds = penalty.
Tackler makes the tackle and releases in the blick of an eye = ball carrier picks it up and keeps going = that's just fine ! The fuck it is Joubert you cock clown ! Sort it out - these rules are a deadset joke. Pick and go has become pick and crawl.

 

[cyclopath]

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing this bullshit.

What really gets me is when Craig Joubert, fuckwit that he is, screams 'not held' all the time, and allows the ball carrier who has been tackled, to get up and keep fucking going. Uh, no, sorry, it doesn't work that way gimp.

Tackler makes the tackle but doesn't roll away within 15 microseconds = penalty.
Tackler makes the tackle and releases in the blick of an eye = ball carrier picks it up and keeps going = that's just fine ! The fuck it is Joubert you cock clown ! Sort it out - these rules are a Golly gosh! joke. Pick and go has become pick and crawl.

Did you watch the Chiefs / Bulls, Naza? Although I thought Kaplan had a pretty good game, there was one comical episode where a tackled player was released (as is required), never got up, but crawled 5-6 m along the ground through the breakdown area with no sanction. I immediately thought of this post! You are psychic!

 

[Biffo]

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing this bullshit.

What really gets me is when Craig Joubert, fuckwit that he is, screams 'not held' all the time, and allows the ball carrier who has been tackled, to get up and keep fucking going. Uh, no, sorry, it doesn't work that way gimp.

Tackler makes the tackle but doesn't roll away within 15 microseconds = penalty.
Tackler makes the tackle and releases in the blick of an eye = ball carrier picks it up and keeps going = that's just fine ! The fuck it is Joubert you cock clown ! Sort it out - these rules are a Golly gosh! joke. Pick and go has become pick and crawl.

Did you watch the Chiefs / Bulls, Naza? Although I thought Kaplan had a pretty good game, there was one comical episode where a tackled player was released (as is required), never got up, but crawled 5-6 m along the ground through the breakdown area with no sanction. I immediately thought of this post! You are psychic!

I tracked the game on another rugby forum. Its reporters thought Kaplan (their word was Kraplan) sucked

 

[cyclopath]

If it was the one I was on, Biffo, they were divided in their opinion, I thought. Then again, you were probably elsewhere! He was pretty good, usual few misses as with any ref.

 

[PaarlBok]

Oh goodness its reffing time again. :lmao: Of course Kaplan like any ref make mistakes, thought the one eyed Kiwi commentators complimented him like they did with Joubert last week when the Brutes lost.

 

[Biffo]

Oh goodness its reffing time again. :lmao: Of course Kaplan like any ref make mistakes, thought the one eyed Kiwi commentators complimented him like they did with Joubert last week when the Brutes lost.

Not on the tracking I followed!

 

[PaarlBok]

Isnt that what you lot said on the commentators thread?