RUGBYS CULTURAL PROBLEM

[PaarlBok]

Myself have the same thoughts about Pom Rugby, only private schools.

Have another question here, the schools that have rugby in Aus, when do they practise? In school hours?

 

[RugbyFuture]

Myself have the same thoughts about Pom Rugby, only private schools.

Have another question here, the schools that have rugby in Aus, when do they practise? In school hours?

after school, in the afternoon usually, although some do it during school hours on a specified afternoon.

 

[PaarlBok]

Thanks Broer,

Ja our lot have to fit it in the afternoon. We do use a lot of parents and some old boys, even some young students coming from Freeks Burgers ref & coaching academy and from Stellenbosch Academies mixing it with parents and teachers.

They do get paid but chicken fee for their suffering. I find a few exceptional schoolboy coaches here, doing some extra yards on saturdays and even in holidays but then this is Paarl. We have a very short school term this year, PoofBall WC and the kids have a 5 week iso 3 week June holiday break and then this public holidays this time of year have mismarize our school term.

Do agree with the first poster, look like the ARU should target the schools to make rugby union bigger in Aus. It start right at the bottom structure U6/7 level. Thats where you have to grow the game.

 

[Public-School-Rugby-Fan]

I reckon TV exposure is another problem and the solution. The lack of free to air games is a HUGE issue. If a kid without pay TV cant grab a TV remote and stuble across a Rugby game and ask "whats that?", Rugby greatly limits itself. Currently the Shute shield get some coverage as well as the Wallabies games by law must be on free to air. I hope and believe its in the ARU's planning to get more than the Super 15 highlight package on air. I have a dream that one day soon that at the very least the "LOCAL DERBYS" go free to air.

 

[PaarlBok]

I reckon TV exposure is another problem and the solution. The lack of free to air games is a HUGE issue. If a kid without pay TV cant grab a TV remote and stuble across a Rugby game and ask "whats that?", Rugby greatly limits itself. Currently the Shute shield get some coverage as well as the Wallabies games by law must be on free to air. I hope and believe its in the ARU's planning to get more than the Super 15 highlight package on air. I have a dream that one day soon that at the very least the "LOCAL DERBYS" go free to air.

Valid point, in SA we have lots of schoolboy rugby on TV, OK its MNet but still.

Just have a look in this interesting schoolboy site for all SA Schools

http://www.derbyday.co.za/

Every rugby school in SA info.

 

[RugbyFuture]

on a side note, in my area, bar one huge pimple, everyone plays rugby. Marist eastwood, cumberland high, epping boys.
catholic to public, bar holy cross ryde, anyone want to leed a crusade to convert them, or should we just bomb them...

 

[Lindommer]

Rugby's estabished a toehold at Holy Cross Ryde, a very strong league school. A district club, called "Ryde" surprisingly, was established some seven or eight years ago and play on HCR's fields. Being a systemic school HCR don't play Saturday sport so the rugby club put their back paddocks to good use. A few boys from HCR chance their arm at the 15 a side game. Small steps.

 

[wamberal]

ABC HD carries the Shute Shield on Saturday afternoons, throughout Australia, as far as I know. Certainly we can watch it live here in Queensland. ABC HD is channel 202 on Foxtel, but it is available on FTA if you have a digital antenna.

 

[AussieDominance]

on a side note, in my area, bar one huge pimple, everyone plays rugby. Marist eastwood, cumberland high, epping boys.
catholic to public, bar holy cross ryde, anyone want to leed a crusade to convert them, or should we just bomb them...

Epping Boys is a staunch rugby school, my old man is the convenor of that rugby zone(for schools) & taught at epping for years. Believe me no league at Epping they are a strong feeder for Eastwood Junior rep sides as well as Eastwood Colts & Grade.

They have some wonderful years and I am pretty sure have won Waratah Shields & possibly Buchan Shields they take it to schools like Randwick Boys & Homebush Boys etc.

 

[RugbyFuture]

yeh well the eastwood district i would say has the greatest strength in lacking league around the area. just need to get rid of holy cross

 

[AussieDominance]

North Shore certainly has a stranglehold over the area, no league from Asquith to North Sydney basically.

 

[TheRiddler]

North Shore certainly has a stranglehold over the area, no league from Asquith to North Sydney basically.

You been to TG Milner on a Sunday? Or Tunks Park in Cammeray? Plenty of league action going on.

 

[RugbyFuture]

tg milner has some league, but compared to other areas, not much around, and eastwood aint the north shore, its the northern districts

 

[Public-School-Rugby-Fan]

Ive got to give a big congrats to the Aussie teams this year. I know the TAHS did a lot of family day promotions with the likes of letting kids on the pitch after the game free/discounted entry for juniors and families. REDS did it a couple of time once I know for sure and I guess the Brumbies and Force did similar. But My Idea is why not use that same discount/free entry offer to any junior sporting kid? So from any sport as long as they can prove it somehow. Target league families if you want, soccer too. Reds this year havent got above the 31,000 this year. Suncorp is a 54,000 stadium. Sure its a similar story for the TAHS. Maybe the ARU might have to help financially but a whole new generations of kids could go see a game that they might not see otherwise. I took a mate and his young son to the REDS this year he loved watching the lineouts and watching the rolling mauls and the scrums he was only 8 and is playing local league. But now hes got a REDS jersey given to him by Rob Simmons. Memories like that stay with kids.

 

[PaarlBok]

Ive got to give a big congrats to the Aussie teams this year. I know the TAHS did a lot of family day promotions with the likes of letting kids on the pitch after the game free/discounted entry for juniors and families. REDS did it a couple of time once I know for sure and I guess the Brumbies and Force did similar. But My Idea is why not use that same discount/free entry offer to any junior sporting kid? So from any sport as long as they can prove it somehow. Target league families if you want, soccer too. Reds this year havent got above the 31,000 this year. Suncorp is a 54,000 stadium. Sure its a similar story for the TAHS. Maybe the ARU might have to help financially but a whole new generations of kids could go see a game that they might not see otherwise. I took a mate and his young son to the REDS this year he loved watching the lineouts and watching the rolling mauls and the scrums he was only 8 and is playing local league. But now hes got a REDS jersey given to him by Rob Simmons. Memories like that stay with kids.

Ja the international players can play a much bigger role for their schools. Here in Paarl I often find old Bokke at the side of the field watching the kids play. You wont believe what difference it make to these kids when a Schalk Burger or Marius Joubert watching from the side or just dishing out signatures and talking to them. When my girl went to Paarl Gims open day to attrack new pupils, the principal got Schalkie and Jean to deliver speeches for the kids. Now that make a huge difference for a 13 year old kid who have to decide which High School he want to go to.

Regarding match days at Newlands, they usual use Bulletjie (U8s) Rugby as curtain raisors. Hosting four matches on the field at once playing from sideline to sideline. Entertaining at it best to watch these kiddies.

 

[Thomond78]

In Australia rugby union is an exclusive game whereas in NZ and the RSA it is inclusive. The trick is to change that in Oz.

Somebody in the thread mentioned elitism in our sport. Excuse me if I give it an historical perspective.

Rugby was exclusive at first. Englishmen who went to private shools (which the Poms call public schools) started up clubs to play the footie game they had played in their schooldays. The game played at the Rugby School emerged as the strongest and it adopted some of the rules used in other schools. Then there was the schism between what we call soccer in Oz, and rugby, which we need not go into here.

In the later parts of the 19th century the rugby toffs in the south became uneasy because the working class northern unions of England were dominating results. They didn't like the ruffians being able to get payments, or perks, either.

In 1893 the Rugby Union voted down a proposal to permit broken time payments to players who lost work after being injured playing rugby; so the northerners resolved to break away to form their own union. They did so two years later and the toffs were ecstatic to see the grubby workers go; they wanted to preserve their genteel middle class game.

Thus the Rugby League was born though it didn't take that name until later.

This was an historic example of exclusivity. As the game spread with various success to other parts of the empire, men in South Africa and New Zealand, regardless of class, took to the union game like ducks to water. To them the sport was inclusive.

This was not the case in Australia; the "Aussie Rules" game, as some of us call it now, grabbed the interest of the working man, especially in Victoria, and rugby as a code of football in Oz nearly died out. Sydney University had played the game internally in the 1860s and some other clubs started up to give them a match. As the Sydney suburbs expanded, so did the number of clubs and the rugby union sport took hold.

In the new century came the rugby league which poached most of the Wallaby team, then came WWI, when rugby union was disbanded and rugby union players and officials joined up to fight. The rugby league kept going and this helped them to establish their sport. The existence of rugby union became fragile once more and it nearly expired again, particularly in Queensland, where it didn't emerge again until 1928.

It was the private schools that kept the game going around WWI and it was incongruous that the two big Sydney Catholic rugby schools, Riverview (Jesuits) and St. Josephs (Marist Brothers), played a leading role. The irony was that the anti-war Church, heavily influenced by Irish clergy, was the champion of working men who gravitated to the rugby league game.

Private schools remain a solid base for our sport. Without them it would be just a novelty activity now.

We would all like our sport become inclusive - to be played more at state schools and to have greater numbers coming through the junior club system. Let's thumb our noses at elitism by all means, but let's not knock private school rugby; it's a mainstay of our sport.

A lot less so that you'd think. All the Jesuit schools here - Clongowes, Gonzaga, Belvedere - are rugby schools. The Holy Ghost Order were rugby-mad everywhere (largely responsible for its introduction to Argentina). The Christian Brothers had moments, and the Presentation Brothers have been turning out the ineffably and naturally superior since at least 1878...

 

[rugbywhisperer]

on a side note, in my area, bar one huge pimple, everyone plays rugby. Marist eastwood, cumberland high, epping boys.
catholic to public, bar holy cross ryde, anyone want to leed a crusade to convert them, or should we just bomb them...

Epping Boys is a staunch rugby school, my old man is the convenor of that rugby zone(for schools) & taught at Epping for years. Believe me no league at Epping they are a strong feeder for Eastwood Junior rep sides as well as Eastwood Colts & Grade.
They have some wonderful years and I am pretty sure have won Waratah Shields & possibly Buchan Shields they take it to schools like Randwick Boys & Homebush Boys etc.

No league at EBHS - thank god.
I played there 66-71 and league was played then but only in a very minor way - we won three Waratah Shields in a row, 1967 def Normanhurst, 1968 Def Matraville and 69 def Balgowlah or Manly High at the SCG (I think). I assume the North West Zone is still strong in supporting rugby as it always was.
In Qld now, if it wasn't for the private schools rugby would be in dire straits. I am not aware of too many state schools playing rugby let alone being staunch proponents of the game. We do have a growing Polynesian factor and they are really becoming dominant particularly in what Sydneysiders call subbies and also the local Gold Coast comp is basically kept alive by them.
The other posters are correct, we need to eradicate the ‘eliteism’ factor which is generated by the leagueophiles. I guess it’s just their marketing and a great level of ignorance on their part.
The point is, rugby at levels below S14/15 is I believe dying at club level. Yesterday at the Breakers v GPS game there would have been maybe 100 spectators other than players and WAGS, and that is only because TSS had a bye so we had to get the rugby fix from somewhere. I remember crows of 6,000+ at TG Milner field in the late 60’s – early 70’s for some games. I would assume those crowd levels are long gone in Sydney and that sort of crowd may be achievable at a Brisbane Grand Final – but I doubt it.You might feasibly get more to a good GPS game than a Premier Grade fixture but again the majority would be parents/players with very few 3rd party visitors.

So – how does rugby generate more 3rd party spectators.
Grass roots. The ARU has some pretty large digits firmly embedded in a dark and smelly place. They need to do as someone else suggested. Extract those digits and get them working.
Pick 5 state schools a year and develop them. Build a Suburban schools competition like it used to have. The players haven’t gone, they just don’t get it and all they need is support. Also, there are plenty of lads who for one reason or another may not have a pathway in league and rugby could give them what they are missing. We need to take them out of the familiar surrounding that league has given them and show them that rugby is more exciting to play.

It needs proactivity. It cannot be left to the private schools to carry the development of the game at junior level but that is what has been allowed to happen. It’s not the schools fault, it is the fault of administrators 30 years ago not seeing what was in front of their faces. Again, most of these administrators came from the private school sector so they didn’t know any difference. To them junior club rugby was not their scene, they were not familiar with it as they never experienced it.

Oh - and get the ARC up and running as a matter of utmost priority. I really don’t care on what format as long as suburban Joe can see some connection with his club, somewhere, but it needs to be done and NOW.
Our future depends on rugby being seen by the people of Australia as a national game played nationally inclusive of all.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Another point I will make, Marketing.
Rugby league over the past 20 years has been nothing short of brilliant in marketing its product to the people it wants - working class.
I am not aware of any real rugby supporters who watch let alone like watching 'The Footy Show' yet that one piece of television attracts a certain crowd to league and they in doing so perpetuate the myth of the elitism of rugby.
The relationship between the media and league has been great and rugby need something in the same vein but I do not have the answer. How do you get the media behind a second rated sport - they will put their money on what is first rated and until we can overcome that massive hurdle we have growing problem.
The only was is to capture the kids when they are young, get them enthused, overcome the mommy/injury syndrome and I believe the palyers will regenerate. If little Johonny is involved then the parents will get involved.
You get little Johonny involved by having his school and his mates involved. From the ground up - buy them, bribe them but make it fun for them.
If only the public school kids knew what the private school kids know - it's FUN.

 

[RugbyFuture]

if only eastwood had that cultural strength still, rugby's the game, but the growing chinese influence means theres a lack of support of any sport, and the japanese play soccer for st andrews AFC. I remember when we had matt burke visiting st kevins eastwood to try and entice us to play, and hillview offering me (a soccer player then) all sorts of incentives to play and support rugby. No league in site.

I think rugby isn't at a point where its going to dissapper and faulter with the view of the elite though, because i believe the ARU have a plan, particularly building rugby in the next ten years with the rugby movememnt happening throughout the world. 6 years til the olympics, and the impact for that won't happen til two years after the potential comes with it, i also sense there are supporters in the flanks now willing to step up beyond just a supporter, to a revolutionary. the strenous times for rugby has strengthened its supporters to that point, and i the IRB starts to get things right post RWC2011, then theres only an upward trend to look forward to.

Also you have tensions rising within league, with movememnts towards "independance" being led by it seems now, an administrator who cant run things, this will be paired with a disshelving of the alliance league has always had in the commercial era with news limited, hopefully resulting in stronger coverage of rugby.

sevens could help by providing a jumpstone to a domestic competition (eg. forma domestic sevens comp, with the proposed clubs, then let that build til demand for ful rugby is there).

lastly, i believe that rugby could capitalise on its business links more, especially as league and aussie rules and soccer demand further independance from that commercial market. imagine gaining the full backing for a domestic comp from news limited, like the NRL has had. or gaining the merchant banks sponsorship within it.

rather than jump out with we're a game for all, capitalise on leagues created perception, and use it to segment the market further apart, thus ensuring that we have the backing of business, then using a strength garnered by that link, to pierce into the "working class" market.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

yeh well the eastwood district i would say has the greatest strength in lacking league around the area. just need to get rid of holy cross

When I was a lad Holy Cross and Marist Eastwood were very strong in rugby, but hell they were dirty.
Still beat them though and it was agreat combat from ages 7/8 to 16.
In those days you had EBHS, Homebush Boys High, Meadowbank, Normanhurst, Asquith, James Ruse. That was a great rugby comp on a Wednesday afternoon for years and there wasn't a league game in sight except for Pennant Hills JRL.
I believe the only reason league and round ball are now played at Milner is for financial reasons. I was involved in the days when soccer first approached us to use Milner and it was a very anxious decision I can tell ya.
For many years while I played rugger my father was president of St Andrews AFC or Soccer Club as it was then called and he always said one day they will play at Milner. Cunning bugger he was.