Rugby World Cup 2023

[Sword of Justice]

Itoje's form has fallen off a cliff in the past two years. Peak Itoje is top 2 locks in the world. But haven't seen it for a while now.

I think it's been even longer than that for Itoje. After his breakout years I don't think he's lived up to the hype. Probably doesn't help that the English pack has a few players like him and Lawes where it's not quite clear whether they'd be better loose lock or blindside.

 

[Spamnoodle]

Personally think Itoje sells the dream but doesn’t back it up.

Agree about Skelton but this is a European page and he’s coming out of La Rochelle.

Sounds like Skelton to me so far. Itoje has had a far more illustrious international career thus far.
I hope this changes for Skelton and the Wallabies.

As an aside, this qwerty character has a very strange sense of humour.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I can agree about Skelton to a point. Itoje has benefited from being part of a better England than what Australia has been.

 

[Italophile]

I think it's been even longer than that for Itoje. After his breakout years I don't think he's lived up to the hype. Probably doesn't help that the English pack has a few players like him and Lawes where it's not quite clear whether they'd be better loose lock or blindside.

Itoje's best was in a pack a lot stronger than recent ones. He was icing on the cake.

 

[rugbyAU]

 

[dru]

View attachment 17431

This should be provided a source reference that preferably details how it was determined.

 

[LeCheese]

This should be provided a source reference that preferably details how it was determined.

One would assume place of birth as any other touch point (e.g. place of schooling) could be quite difficult to identify for some or not a single nation. But you know what they say about assumptions

 

[qwerty51]

12-16 Grade schooling was the criteria.

 

[Bullrush]

And yet the Island nations are represented in England, NZ, Australia, Ireland, France, Japan, Wales....I don't know what the point of this table is other than to say Samoa and Tonga are really poor countries...

 

[dru]

One would assume place of birth as any other touch point (e.g. place of schooling) could be quite difficult to identify for some or not a single nation. But you know what they say about assumptions

I'd suggest that is not a good place to start and stick with your conclusion.

 

[qwerty51]

What does that mean, represented? Those players have heritage but they're not home grown from the PIs.

 

[Dctarget]

Actually nuts that it's 50% by Scotland, kudos to their recruitment manager, working hard. Surprised by our 90%. Is that Koroibete, Vunivalu and Tupou?

 

[Bullrush]

What does that mean, represented? Those players have heritage but they're not home grown from the PIs.

Out of the thousands and thousands of other players who could have been selected in those countries, somehow players with Island heritage - who are outnumbered in every sense - get selected.

How many 1st or 2nd generation English or French or Irish players are getting selected in other countries?

Pacific Island nations were made to play these contact sports - union, league, gridiron etc. They just don't have the money to really compete or to make staying at home financially viable.

 

[qwerty51]

How many 1st or 2nd generation English or French or Irish players are getting selected in other countries?

There's probably thousands but you just don't hear about them because they never gave them a look after getting selected for their home grown country. And 3rd generation counts.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Almost feel sorry for the non-diehards that'll tune in to RWC and haven't seen what rugby has become.....

"Wait, why are they just running one metre straight into each other?
"Anything else is too risky"

"Why do the fat people have a sit-in strike every 5 minutes and stop the whole game?"
"Because they're fat and they don't want anyone else on the field to run too much."

"Why do they celebrate every scrum penalty like they've won the World Cup?"
"May as well just fast forward this next bit. They kick to the corner and rolling maul for a try. The rules make it impossible to defend the maul and the mauling team can do whatever they want. You'd have to be an absolute pack of klutzes not to score from them."

"Why does superstar Beaudy keep kicking the ball away?"
He doesn't want to get hurt. He's cotton wooling himself for his next payday in Japan playing at some desolate empty suburban park for 3 times the money he makes as an All Black"

"I thought the All Blacks were supposed to be good. They look clueless."
"Their coach is a total puttyhead and has never won anything whatsoever at any level of rugby."
"Well how did he get the All Blacks coaching job then?"
"He's pals with Steve."
"Who's Steve? Ahh nevermind, fuck this shit, let's change channels."
"Hell yes."

 

[dru]

Actually nuts that it's 50% by Scotland, kudos to their recruitment manager, working hard.

How many 1st or 2nd generation English or French or Irish players are getting selected in other countries?

There's probably thousands but you just don't hear about them

I knew a guy, a no 8, in England in the early 2000s who was English, had some talent but missed selection in the various academy options in England. he was immediately chased by recruiters in Scotland and Wales, ended up in the Welsh academy (can't remember if it was parent or grandparent). It had a feel not unlike The Brumbies pulling in talent from NSW and Qld. The British Nations are a different sort of "statehood".

@Bullrush - I'm with you on the knee-jerk rejection with respect to PI. Hence suggesting the table should provide some sort of credentials behind it. For now I'm simply chalking it up as BS. Sniff-o-meter hitting the richter quadrant.

 

[Derpus]

Almost feel sorry for the non-diehards that'll tune in to RWC and haven't seen what rugby has become.....

"Wait, why are they just running one metre straight into each other?
"Anything else is too risky"

"Why do the fat people have a sit-in strike every 5 minutes and stop the whole game?"
"Because they're fat and they don't want anyone else on the field to run too much."

"Why do they celebrate every scrum penalty like they've won the World Cup?"
"May as well just fast forward this next bit. They kick to the corner and rolling maul for a try. The rules make it impossible to defend the maul and the mauling team can do whatever they want. You'd have to be an absolute pack of klutzes not to score from them."

"Why does superstar Beaudy keep kicking the ball away?"
He doesn't want to get hurt. He's cotton wooling himself for his next payday in Japan playing at some desolate empty suburban park for 3 times the money he makes as an All Black"

"I thought the All Blacks were supposed to be good. They look clueless."
"Their coach is a total puttyhead and has never won anything whatsoever at any level of rugby."
"Well how did he get the All Blacks coaching job then?"
"He's pals with Steve."
"Who's Steve? Ahh nevermind, fuck this shit, let's change channels."
"Hell yes."

You're starting to sound like me mate. Shape up.

 

[Bullrush]

BTW - Aotearoa Rugby Pod has another great episode this week. Ben Darwin is the guest and I found it really interesting...

 

[rugbyAU]

I can agree about Skelton to a point. Itoje has benefited from being part of a better England than what Australia has been.

I think people have been too harsh on saying Skelton can’t replicate his club form to the Wallabies, this year is the first in a while he’s had a proper go, the last two years Rennie just parachuted him in for three games in the EOYT mostly off the bench, while he needed time to adapt to the new team. I thought last year he was pretty decent in the games he played for us

 

[Highlander35]

I knew a guy, a no 8, in England in the early 2000s who was English, had some talent but missed selection in the various academy options in England. he was immediately chased by recruiters in Scotland and Wales, ended up in the Welsh academy (can't remember if it was parent or grandparent). It had a feel not unlike The Brumbies pulling in talent from NSW and Qld. The British Nations are a different sort of "statehood".

@Bullrush - I'm with you on the knee-jerk rejection with respect to PI. Hence suggesting the table should provide some sort of credentials behind it. For now I'm simply chalking it up as BS. Sniff-o-meter hitting the richter quadrant.

Of the British but non-Scottish educated.

- Ewan Ashman and Ali Price have always been involved in the Scotland age grade set up.

- Sam Skinner, Ben White & Cam Redpath were in the England U20 system.

- None of Huw Jones, Chris Harris or Javan Sebastian played British rep rugby after school.

England have over 10 times the population of Scotland and almost 18 times as much as Wales. London and the South East have pulled generations away from not only the constituent countries but the English North and "midlands" as well, which can't be ignored as a generational effect. This is almost doubly so for immigration: not many come to the UK to work anywhere but greater London.

Excluding my folks, in their generation, all 6 West of Scotland born, three now live in the south east because there were limited growth opportunities for their careers, one moved to Edinburgh and chose to stay with a young family primarily for political reasons (passionate independence supporter) and another stays in the West but they or their partner get flown about to various EU countries 12-20 times a year for their technical expertise.