Rugby Union State of Origin - Hypothetical

[Bowside]

I'm relatively new to this forum so forgive me if this has been discussed before in another thread.

During the reds 'disappointing' period (06-09), when watching games with mates or the old man, the topic of 'if all the Queensland born players played for the Reds, how competitive they would be?' often came up.

It has been suggested in the ARU thread that Rugby Union needs a State of Origin series as players are increasingly ditching their home state's super rugby team in search of greener pastures. I think it would be a great revenue raiser for the game and something GAGR (with its new found influence) should moot on its blog page.

But first a few things need to be sorted out such as:
- Eligibility rules.
- When the games can be played.
- Should it just be QLD and NSW competing.
- Would it be financially viable.

So I'm opening this one up to the brains trust. What are everyone’s views on this?

Also if anyone wants to suggest hypothetical teams and how much we would beat NSW by if a game was played tomorrow....

 

[en_force_er]

At this point I think the best chance of a state of origin game is having a trophy for the 2 games Qld and NSW will play each year in the new Super comp.

The ARU needs to hype these games like their life depends on it and have some kind of a trophy (which I think their already is) that the will gets, standard 2 game series rules.

I know the Reds and the Tahs don't exclusively recruit from their boarders but they do for the most part so we'll have to live with it.

 

[Richo]

Fat chance of fitting in any more games for something like this. En_force_er has it right.

 

[qwerty51]

You realise that half the Reds team this year was from NSW?

- Humphries
- Houston
- Weeks
- Turinui
- Fainga'a
- Fainga'a #2
- Brynes

Who have the Tahs got besides Barnes, Mowen and Mitchell?

And do not get me started on the Force, since 75% would be from NSW.

 

[DPK]

You realise that half the Reds team this year was from NSW?

- Humphries
- Houston
- Weeks
- Turinui
- Fainga'a
- Fainga'a #2
- Brynes

Who have the Tahs got besides Barnes, Mowen and Mitchell?

And do not get me started on the Force, since 75% would be from NSW.

And?

 

[Blue]

Why do you want to be like league?

 

[Ruggo]

At this point I think the best chance of a state of origin game is having a trophy for the 2 games Qld and NSW will play each year in the new Super comp.

The ARU needs to hype these games like their life depends on it and have some kind of a trophy (which I think their already is) that the will gets, standard 2 game series rules.

I know the Reds and the Tahs don't exclusively recruit from their boarders but they do for the most part so we'll have to live with it.

We do. We play for the Templeton cup.

 

[RugbyReg]

here you go, I did a blog post about this back in May.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/state-of-origin/

 

[Bowside]

Why do you want to be like league?

I dont really think thats the point. I think sports lose somthing as they become more professional. League had players going from qld to nsw in search of a better comp. What that meant was that for the qld v nsw game, teams were picked not on where you were from but where you lived.

So they decided to changed the rules so that teams were picked according to 'state of origin'. Rugby is moving in the same direction and as such I think such a game is warranted.

Tribalism is an important element in the growth of rugby and rugbys move towards the mainstream. Dont underestimate its power.

 

[Bowside]

here you go, I did a blog post about this back in May.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/state-of-origin/

You pretty much captured everything I was trying to say in your blog post.

I like the bit about it being an amateur event as well.

It is also an opurtunity to get rugby on free to air tv.

Shall we start a fan petition on facebook like the old boys chior did?

 

[Blue]

I dont really think thats the point. I think sports lose somthing as they become more professional. League had players going from qld to nsw in search of a better comp. What that meant was that for the qld v nsw game, teams were picked not on where you were from but where you lived.

So they decided to changed the rules so that teams were picked according to 'state of origin'. Rugby is moving in the same direction and as such I think such a game is warranted.

Tribalism is an important element in the growth of rugby and rugbys move towards the mainstream. Dont underestimate its power.

Fair enough. There's too much rugby as it is but maybe with the lack of a second tier comp there could be room for a series after the 3N leading into the EOYT to get players match fit.

Questions: Would players and coaches care as much about this as the RL people do? The boofheads get right into the "kill you, your family and burn down your village" attitude but will rugby people be as passionate? Genuine question.

The Super 14 derbies between the two "states" in the last to years were dire and had little if any sting.

PS. Professional sport has not killed tribalism. Some of the old rivalries in SA and NZ are proof of that. They are well and truly alive. Question is, did the rivalry ever really exist in rugby between the two states?

 

[RedsHappy]

here you go, I did a blog post about this back in May.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/state-of-origin/

RR- that's an excellent post, and one I hadn't seen. I have long thought a rugby SOO is a fine idea. We _have_ to find ways of increasing the code's income before we find more innovative ways to spend it, and we have to bring 'local' everyday fans back to exciting, fun, rambunctious rugby, your proposal (especially the bits at the end) is close to spot on in doing that in a way that many of the June Tests do not, and simply, in comparison, cannot. The curtain raiser could be an U19 schoolboys SOO, or such like, to add to the gate and engagement from that age group.

The SOO could be played either in place of say two of the June Tests (where the 2004>2010 figures show attendance are generally falling, especially when adjusted for population growth over that period), or, for pure incremental income, in the late September/mid-October period (the ARU has said no more 4th Bleds).

 

[qwerty51]

And?

The poster was implying that the Reds are robbed of talent and would smash NSW if origin teams were formed.

 

[Bowside]

RR- that's an excellent post, and one I hadn't seen. I have long thought a rugby SOO is a fine idea. We _have_ to find ways of increasing the code's income before we find more innovative ways to spend it, and we have to bring 'local' everyday fans back to exciting, fun, rambunctious rugby, your proposal (especially the bits at the end) is close to spot on in doing that in a way that many of the June Tests do not, and simply, in comparison, cannot. The curtain raiser could be an U19 schoolboys SOO, or such like, to add to the gate and engagement from that age group.

The SOO could be played either in place of say two of the June Tests (where the 2004>2010 figures show attendance are generally falling, especially when adjusted for population growth over that period), or, for pure incremental income, in the late September/mid-October period (the ARU has said no more 4th Bleds).

If the ARU marketed this correctly, it could go along way towards funding a provincial comp. Also if the series was played in June, australians playing overseas might be able to compete as they have a break over the summer. But that might be counter productive...

The poster was implying that the Reds are robbed of talent and would smash NSW if origin teams were formed.

To be fair there are many Queenslanders playing for other francises who are very good players and would probibly make the reds. A little list I made:

- Barnes
- Mowen
- Mitchell
- JOC (James O'Connor)
- Pocock
- Brown
- Sharpe
- Elsom
- Chis
- Chapman
- Moore

Just to name a few. And yes I think at this point in time QLD would win an origin game. We would have it over you pretty much everywhere except the the front row and a maybe couple of outside backs spots. Plus NSW don't have a top 5/8 at the moment (Beale is the closest you have), whilst QLD has 3 very good 5/8ths in Cooper, Barnes and To'omua.

 

[#1 Tah]

Halangahu. Sheehan. Swanepoel. McKibben. Kelley.

 

[Scotty]

A full strength wallaby side would read something like this:

Robinson, TPN, Alexander
Sharpe, Horwill
Pocock, Elsom, Palu
Genia, Cooper
Giteau, Ashley-Cooper
Mitchell, Ioane
Beale

Moore, Slipper, Mumm, Hodgson, Burgess, Barnes, Hynes

 

[qwerty51]

I would agree with that side so it's even but Barnes blue? That's a mistake? Giving QLD the edge.

 

[Scotty]

I didn't do it on purpose, but that seems to have ended up with 11 NSW and 11 Qld.

A state of origin NSW (with ACT) vs Qld (with other states) would be a pretty enticing battle, with some great match ups:

TPN vs Moore
Pocock vs Hogson or Waugh
Beale vs Hynes
Mitchell vs Turner

Bugger, I just realised that I gave Barnes to NSW. It would even back up by throwing Turner in for Mitchell or Hynes.

 

[Bowside]

Would players from the ACT count toward NSW. Because that would definatly even things up a quite alot. But then again, others have suggest a combined 'everyone else' team to broaden the concepts appeal outside of QLD and NSW. Which isnt a bad idea, but the combined team probibly would'nt be strong enough at the moment.

 

[mattyj]

The boofheads get right into the "kill you, your family and burn down your village" attitude but will rugby people be as passionate? Genuine question.

speaking from a fans perspective: nup. I can't speak for everyone, certainly not everyone here. But my impression is nup.

I was pretty disappointed at the Bledisloe on saturday night, when the kiwi's started the 'all blicks! all blicks!' chant. No reply from the aussies. not even a peep of noise. we tend to like just sitting back and chatting while the game is on.

well. I tried. I lost my voice trying to make some noise. oh well.