Rugby Stadiums

[Quick Hands]

Interesting that the SFS isn't even allowed to protect more than 5% more seats from the weather without triggering something!

Thanks for the BH. It's a ludicrous agreement and what I said in post #57 applies

 

[Train Without a Station]

Was it developed as a PPP? If so I can understand the government agreement.

 

[Quick Hands]

I make it 10 (or 11 if you start up the crawl Moore Park Road at the Olympic Hotel.) and even then you need to take a wee detour towards Central to check in to the last few.

The route taken is the 2 km stroll down Moore Park, Fitzroy and Fouveaux starting at the SFS car park.

Which ones have I missed?

1. Captain Cook Hotel
2. The Cricketers Arms Hotel
3. The White Horse Hotel
4. The Forresters
5. Excelsior Hotel
6. Button Bar
7. The Red Door
8. The Keg and Brew
9. The Aurora Hotel
10. Central Hotel

(11. The Olympic Hotel)

With a couple of detours the number can increase rather rapidly (read Crown Street).

A left turn when you hit Elizabeth St and a short walk will get you to the Royal Exhibition (which I can heartily recommend). The Madison Hotel is on the opposite corner.

I also assume by the Keg and Brew you mean the KB (Kurtley Beale) in Foveaux St.

 

[Braveheart81]

Thanks for the BH. It's a ludicrous agreement and what I said in post #57 applies

Yep. I guess governments are willing to make all sorts of concessions if they can get someone else to pay for something.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

This may be slightly easier to read.

Competitive stadiums
The Project Agreement does not limit or restrict the ability of the Government, either directly or through any department, authority or local council, to construct and/or operate other sporting or entertainment venues in NSW.

It does, however, set out provisions for possible renegotiation of the Stadium Australia contracts if the project is adversely affected by the development or redevelopment of a “competitive stadium”.

The original Project Agreement’s requirement for negotiations in these circumstances was significantly relaxed by the Project Agreement Amendment Deed of 20 December 1999, which narrowed both the definition of “competitive stadiums” and the types of re-developments potentially triggering the requirement.

Under the Project Agreement, as amended by the Project Agreement Amendment Deed, SOPA may now be required to negotiate with the Trustee if the Government or one of its agencies:


Develops a competitive stadium with more than 35,000 seats within 50 kilometres of the Homebush Bay area (other than in Wollongong or on the Central Coast)


Redevelops such a competitive stadium in ways listed below, or Provides financial assistance of more than $1 million (indexed to the CPI) for such a development or redevelopment, and this competitive stadium’s development or redevelopment and operation are solely responsible for a “material adverse effect” on the Trustee’s ability to carry out the project or repay its debt financiers, or on the returns to the Stadium Australia Trust’s unitholders and the Operator’s shareholders.

In the case of the Sydney Football Stadium, Sydney Cricket Ground and Parramatta Stadium, the types of redevelopments potentially triggering this requirement are confined to redevelopments which:

• Increase the number of permanent seats to more than 48,000, 48,000 or 35,000 seats respectively
• Provides a closed or closeable roof for the Sydney Football Stadium or Parramatta Stadium
• Increases the roof area of the Sydney Football Stadium to protect an additional 5% or more of its seats from the weather, or
• Increases the floor space of the enclosed corporate suites at Sydney Football Stadium by more than 30%.

For other venues, the types of redevelopments potentially triggering a requirement to negotiate are confined to permanent rede velopments or changes which:

• 
  Increase the number of permanent seats to more than 35,000, or
• In the case of venues which already have more than 35,000 seats, enable the venue to attract different events or greater attendances or otherwise facilitate a material change in the functions or uses of the venue.

Any such negotiations must aim at enabling the Trustee to preserve its abilities to procure the operation and maintenance of Stadium Australia in accordance with the Project Agreement, maintain Stadium Australia as a competitive venue for major events, repay its debt financiers and provide Trust unitholders with previously forecast levels of return.

SOPA must also negotiate with the Operator with a view to enabling it to provide its shareholders with previously forecast levels of return. These negotiations with the Trustee and the Operator must consider, among other things, possible amendments to the project’s contracts and possible variations to the operation and maintenance term and/or the financial and other contributions of SOPA and the Trustee.

In addition to these provisions for negotiations following an actual development or redevelopment of a competitive stadium, SOPA must discuss with the Trustee:


Any serious proposal by the Government or one of its agencies to develop a competitive stadium with more than 35,000 seats within 50 kilometres of the Homebush Bay area (other than in Wollongong or on the Central Coast), or to redevelop an existing competitive stadium in any of the ways listed above, if the Trustee reasonably believes this proposal would be likely to have a “material adverse effect” on the Trustee, and


Any serious proposal for the sale of the Sydney Cricket Ground, the Sydney Football Stadium or Parramatta Stadium to the private sector.

Changes in law
If there is a discriminatory change in NSW law that specifically and only affects :

• 
  The Stadium Australia project
• The project and other privately owned venues within the Homebush Bay area, or
• The project and other competitive stadiums, but grants relief to the other competitive stadiums, and this change has a “material adverse effect” on the Trustee, SOPA must negotiate with the Trustee and the Operator with a view to compensating them on the same basis as under the competitive stadium provisions outlined above.

The risk of all other changes in law (e.g. federal and other State changes) is borne by the Trustee, except for the native title indemnity provided by SOPA and other than to the extent that the changes affect the “OCA works” to be carried out in the stadium precinct.

 

[Train Without a Station]

So there is no set cost, it's to be a negotiated settlement figure?

 

[Joeleee]

It seems it is actually 48,000 capacity. (apologies for the poor formatting). This comes from page 24 of http://www.treasury.nsw.gov.au/__da...ralia_updated_contracts_summary_June_2002.pdf

Thanks mate! That is a pretty ridiculous contract, especially saying you can't put a roof on the SFS, even though Stadium Australia doesn't have one!

It's not quite as bad as I first thought though, because it only stops government money being put towards new stadiums, not private investment (if I'm reading it correctly). Though as far as I understand, no stadiums get built unless it's with public money anyway as they're notoriously unprofitable (unless they get some sort of assurance like in the above contract, and even then my understanding is the original owners went bankrupt).

 

[boyo]

I make it 10 (or 11 if you start up the crawl Moore Park Road at the Olympic Hotel.) and even then you need to take a wee detour towards Central to check in to the last few.

The route taken is the 2 km stroll down Moore Park, Fitzroy and Fouveaux starting at the SFS car park.

Which ones have I missed?

1. Captain Cook Hotel
2. The Cricketers Arms Hotel
3. The White Horse Hotel
4. The Forresters
5. Excelsior Hotel
6. Button Bar
7. The Red Door
8. The Keg and Brew
9. The Aurora Hotel
10. Central Hotel

(11. The Olympic Hotel)

With a couple of detours the number can increase rather rapidly (read Crown Street).

The Hopetoun (The Hoey). Is it closed?

 

[Lindommer]

Big Bum, walking from the SFS to Central, with a coupla minor detours:

1. Captain Cook Hotel
2. The Local Taphouse
3. Cricketers Arms
4. Dolphin Hotel
5. White Horse Hotel
6. The Clock Hotel
7. Forresters Hotel
8. Keg & Brew
9. Excelsior Hotel
10. Taylors on Central, Mary Street
11. Aurora Hotel, Elizabeth Street
12. Evening Star, Elizabeth Street
13. Central Hotel, Chalmers Street

I keep forgetting the Hopetoun closed some time ago and mentally add it to the total number.

 

[Nusadan]

If you take the Devonshire St route which has the Devonshire tunnel at the Central Station end there quite a few pubs along it to name a couple:

Strawberry Hills Hotel
Shakespeare Hotel

(Am only spruiking my mate's two pubs!)

 

[Lindommer]

You missed the Dove & Olive (great craft beer) in the same block as the Shakespeare. Further down Devonshire Street are the Strawberry Hills, the Royal Exhibition and, if you're still thirsty, the Madison. Come to think of it, the Riley/Devonshire Street route goes past much better pubs than lower Foveaux Street.

By this time the station staff should be pouring you onto a train.....

 

[It is what it is]

By this time the station staff should be pouring you onto a train...responsibly

 

[Antony]

I also assume by the Keg and Brew you mean the KB (Kurtley Beale) in Foveaux St.

A mate of mine manages the KB (Kurtley Beale), it's phenomenal now. Was always a solid pub, but gee it has a great range of taps these days. The same mob did it up that did up the Dove & Olive.

 

[Quick Hands]

A mate of mine manages the KB (Kurtley Beale), it's phenomenal now. Was always a solid pub, but gee it has a great range of taps these days. The same mob did it up that did up the Dove & Olive.

We generally have a pit stop there for a couple on the way to the Royal Exhibition.

 

[Quick Hands]

Thanks mate! That is a pretty ridiculous contract, especially saying you can't put a roof on the SFS, even though Stadium Australia doesn't have one!

It's not quite as bad as I first thought though, because it only stops government money being put towards new stadiums, not private investment (if I'm reading it correctly). Though as far as I understand, no stadiums get built unless it's with public money anyway as they're notoriously unprofitable (unless they get some sort of assurance like in the above contract, and even then my understanding is the original owners went bankrupt).

And the ANZ Bank bascially foreclosed on the mortgage (there's probably a more technical term) as they were the financiers. This being the case, there wouldn't appear to be a financier to make repayments to, as the financier is now in possession. Although we may need a legal opinion on this.

 

[Joeleee]

And the ANZ Bank bascially foreclosed on the mortgage (there's probably a more technical term) as they were the financiers. This being the case, there wouldn't appear to be a financier to make repayments to, as the financier is now in possession. Although we may need a legal opinion on this.

Yep, my understanding was they basically said, "we'll take naming rights, a few box seats and some other bits and pieces and you don't have to pay us back". My understanding is that the previous owners got a very good deal out of it.

 

[KevinO]

Thanks mate! That is a pretty ridiculous contract, especially saying you can't put a roof on the SFS, even though Stadium Australia doesn't have one!

It's not quite as bad as I first thought though, because it only stops government money being put towards new stadiums, not private investment (if I'm reading it correctly). Though as far as I understand, no stadiums get built unless it's with public money anyway as they're notoriously unprofitable (unless they get some sort of assurance like in the above contract, and even then my understanding is the original owners went bankrupt).

I wonder how easy it would be to loop hole out of this? Currently have 3 tenants. Have the Government give these clubs the money and than the clubs invest the money into the stadium development as it benefits them the most.

Technically it's Private investment.

 

[I like to watch]

If the Gov gifted those clubs the money,without conditions, yes that would work.
Imagine the clusterfuck if they did do that,especially if some of the clubs decided they would prefer to use their $70 odd mill on other things.
It would be interesting though!

 

[Quick Hands]

I wonder how easy it would be to loop hole out of this? Currently have 3 tenants. Have the Government give these clubs the money and than the clubs invest the money into the stadium development as it benefits them the most.

Technically it's Private investment.

These clubs are actually subsidised by ANZ Stadium to play their home matches there. Hence Souths leaving the SFS in their own backyard to play home matches at Homebush, Waratahs playing matches there, Swans playing there (until the current agreement runs out) 2 of these organisations actually have their offices at the SFS/SCG, but play at Homebush - because the deal with ANZ gives them more money regardless of the crowd.