C
Cave Dweller
Guest
Sorry it was the Stormers one where they got nailed. Talking about clever ploys look at this to prevent a charge down.
Rugby - not set pieces
- Thread starter Lee Grant
- Start date
- Status
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
That's a very well constructed tactic, suprised more teams don't incorporate it.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Commentators
Chiefs v Lions
• Scott Stevenson was in good form and sideline eye, Richard Turner, snuck a good one in too:
When SBW was tag teamed by a couple of Lions' defenders:
Stevenson: “They were in double coverage of the three initials.”
- When the hard working Chiefs first-five did a good wipers kick for the line:
Stevenson: “Cruden is busier than a one-legged River Dancer.”
- When Kahui tackled Taute hard:
Stevenson: “The big hits keep coming: it's like ABBA.” Indeed Kahui hit hard but his head was in the wrong place and he got a knock. He had to go off. The home crowd thought he had meet his Waterloo, but he came back on after a blood bin.
- When the Lions' skipper grabbed the leg of the Chiefs' replacement prop who took exception:
Stevenson: “Sona Taumalolo is trying to give Josh Strauss a facial; he's not happy.”
Turner: “I think he's looking for something he lost in Strauss' beard earlier.”
Stevenson: “One can only hope that there wasn't contact with the eyes in that exchange. Josh Strauss has stayed down.”
Turner: “Just contact with the beard on that occasion Scotty.”
• Brumbies v Waratahs
- After a pass from Tahs regular lock Kane Douglas to uncontracted player Peter Betham:
Greg Martin: “He knew Betham was coming, but the the combination – they haven't worked too much together, those two.”
Phil Kearns: “If ever: they may not have met.”
- After McCabe dropped an ill-thrown ball:
Rod Kafer: “It just needed that old German move: Hans.”
• Eastwood v Eastern Suburbs
Play is flowing one way and reserve scrummie Shanin Proctor takes a punt and switches play the other way to a stationary team mate who was not ready and dropped the ball. Commenting on Proctor:
Brett Papworth: “He's been at training all year; he should be aware of the patterns of play.”
Steve Robilliard: “He backed himself and took a Proctor gamble."
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Chiefs v Lions
• Scott Stevenson was in good form and sideline eye, Richard Turner, snuck a good one in too:
When SBW was tag teamed by a couple of Lions' defenders:
Stevenson: “They were in double coverage of the three initials.”
- When the hard working Chiefs first-five did a good wipers kick for the line:
Stevenson: “Cruden is busier than a one-legged River Dancer.”
- When Kahui tackled Taute hard:
Stevenson: “The big hits keep coming: it's like ABBA.” Indeed Kahui hit hard but his head was in the wrong place and he got a knock. He had to go off. The home crowd thought he had meet his Waterloo, but he came back on after a blood bin.
- When the Lions' skipper grabbed the leg of the Chiefs' replacement prop who took exception:
Stevenson: “Sona Taumalolo is trying to give Josh Strauss a facial; he's not happy.”
Turner: “I think he's looking for something he lost in Strauss' beard earlier.”
Stevenson: “One can only hope that there wasn't contact with the eyes in that exchange. Josh Strauss has stayed down.”
Turner: “Just contact with the beard on that occasion Scotty.”
• Brumbies v Waratahs
- After a pass from Tahs regular lock Kane Douglas to uncontracted player Peter Betham:
Greg Martin: “He knew Betham was coming, but the the combination – they haven't worked too much together, those two.”
Phil Kearns: “If ever: they may not have met.”
- After McCabe dropped an ill-thrown ball:
Rod Kafer: “It just needed that old German move: Hans.”
• Eastwood v Eastern Suburbs
Play is flowing one way and reserve scrummie Shanin Proctor takes a punt and switches play the other way to a stationary team mate who was not ready and dropped the ball. Commenting on Proctor:
Brett Papworth: “He's been at training all year; he should be aware of the patterns of play.”
Steve Robilliard: “He backed himself and took a Proctor gamble."
.
C
Cave Dweller
Guest
haha Lee is the master and I am just a studentKeep up the good work, CD, you're giving LG a good run for his money!
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Laws
Crusaders v Reds
The Gill incident
In the 72nd minute the Reds are ahead 11-9. Crusaders 10. Tom Taylor goes on a run. He is tackled by the excellent Reds 7. Liam Gill, who goes to ground with Taylor. Gill gets up showing a clear separation between his hands and Taylor, then puts his hands on the ball; he does not have to step around to go through the back gate first: he is the tackler.
There is no ruck, because there is no contact of opposing players over the ball until until Crusaders 3. Owen Franks comes barrelling into the side of the tackle then flops over on that side; 14. Sean Maitlland comes into help him.
Lawrence blows the whistle and I think: good: - he got something right - he's penalised Franks for coming in at the side. Blow me down though - the penalty is against Gill. Lawrence mumbles something about his being beaten by the ruck but I may have got his remarks wrong because Blind Freddie could have noticed that Gill had his hands on the ball before contact was made (illegally) by Franks and the ruck formed.
Gill knew that he didn't have to take his hands off the ball if a ruck was formed after he got his hands on the pill. Like all professional fetchers he knows that a May 2009 Clarification of the laws stated that: Providing a player from either side on their feet after a tackle comply with all aspects of Law 15 and have the ball in their hands prior to contact with an opposition player on his feet those players may continue with possession of the ball
The McCaw obstruction Mosey
Every time I mention these two species of infractions I feel like David Attenborough on the Discovery Channel, or some such. They are not rare birds but they are interesting because they are invisible to some people.
- The stand around loiter mosey. There's a ruck after McCaw has come on and you can see the red and black striped McCaw bird moseying around the ruck minding his own business, just looking on; but he's on the Reds side of the ruck, not impeding anybody, mind - they can work around him. Nobody notices this but observer Attenborough.
- The obstruction of the opponent from the set piece mosey. It's in the 53rd minute and the ball is heeled back from a scrum. In a set move Read passes to Ellis who is stepping to his right. Then Ellis turns and passes to Carter who is running to the left. McCaw, who has just unbound from the scrum, is on the left and 8 metres in front of Carter, the ball carrier, as the play is switched according to plan.
The red and black striped McCaw bird, who knows of the planned move, moseys a couple of steps in the direction of the play then, still 6 metres in front of Carter, moseys up the field, neatly blocking Gill who is going for Carter. The gap is thereby created and Carter nearly scores.
I actually laughed when I saw it, as it was quintessential McCaw doing one of the things which has escaped the Law crackdown net, (the loiter mosey is the other one). It was right in front of Lawrence and I knew that he would not be pinged for it, and sure enough, he wasn't.
The Kiwi commentators had a chuckle at it too. Gill didn't see the funny side of it, but 18 minutes later even worse was to come for him.
But I'm not blaming McCaw - he has done it for a decade, and I have written about it for that long - why should he change?
.
Crusaders v Reds
The Gill incident
In the 72nd minute the Reds are ahead 11-9. Crusaders 10. Tom Taylor goes on a run. He is tackled by the excellent Reds 7. Liam Gill, who goes to ground with Taylor. Gill gets up showing a clear separation between his hands and Taylor, then puts his hands on the ball; he does not have to step around to go through the back gate first: he is the tackler.
There is no ruck, because there is no contact of opposing players over the ball until until Crusaders 3. Owen Franks comes barrelling into the side of the tackle then flops over on that side; 14. Sean Maitlland comes into help him.
Lawrence blows the whistle and I think: good: - he got something right - he's penalised Franks for coming in at the side. Blow me down though - the penalty is against Gill. Lawrence mumbles something about his being beaten by the ruck but I may have got his remarks wrong because Blind Freddie could have noticed that Gill had his hands on the ball before contact was made (illegally) by Franks and the ruck formed.
Gill knew that he didn't have to take his hands off the ball if a ruck was formed after he got his hands on the pill. Like all professional fetchers he knows that a May 2009 Clarification of the laws stated that: Providing a player from either side on their feet after a tackle comply with all aspects of Law 15 and have the ball in their hands prior to contact with an opposition player on his feet those players may continue with possession of the ball
The McCaw obstruction Mosey
Every time I mention these two species of infractions I feel like David Attenborough on the Discovery Channel, or some such. They are not rare birds but they are interesting because they are invisible to some people.
- The stand around loiter mosey. There's a ruck after McCaw has come on and you can see the red and black striped McCaw bird moseying around the ruck minding his own business, just looking on; but he's on the Reds side of the ruck, not impeding anybody, mind - they can work around him. Nobody notices this but observer Attenborough.
- The obstruction of the opponent from the set piece mosey. It's in the 53rd minute and the ball is heeled back from a scrum. In a set move Read passes to Ellis who is stepping to his right. Then Ellis turns and passes to Carter who is running to the left. McCaw, who has just unbound from the scrum, is on the left and 8 metres in front of Carter, the ball carrier, as the play is switched according to plan.
The red and black striped McCaw bird, who knows of the planned move, moseys a couple of steps in the direction of the play then, still 6 metres in front of Carter, moseys up the field, neatly blocking Gill who is going for Carter. The gap is thereby created and Carter nearly scores.
I actually laughed when I saw it, as it was quintessential McCaw doing one of the things which has escaped the Law crackdown net, (the loiter mosey is the other one). It was right in front of Lawrence and I knew that he would not be pinged for it, and sure enough, he wasn't.
The Kiwi commentators had a chuckle at it too. Gill didn't see the funny side of it, but 18 minutes later even worse was to come for him.
But I'm not blaming McCaw - he has done it for a decade, and I have written about it for that long - why should he change?
.
The scarlet macaw or Ara macao is a large South American parrot known for its long tail and brightly coloured feathers. It is extremely easy to spot.
The distant cousin of the scarlet macaw, the Richie McCaw or McCawus Offsidus is found only in New Zealand and despite many reported sightings by people in the crowd, has never been spotted by a referee. Known for either his red and black markings or just plain black markings, the McCawus Offsidus has the uncanny ability to remain almost invisible to even the most experienced referee.
The distant cousin of the scarlet macaw, the Richie McCaw or McCawus Offsidus is found only in New Zealand and despite many reported sightings by people in the crowd, has never been spotted by a referee. Known for either his red and black markings or just plain black markings, the McCawus Offsidus has the uncanny ability to remain almost invisible to even the most experienced referee.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Laws
Crusaders v Reds
15. Morahan of the Reds kicks a ping pong ball. 10. Lucas in front of him waits to be put onside before advancing then does so after Morahan passes the line where he is. Bryce Lawrence penalises Lucas.
Rough call? No. It is not enough for Lucas to stay where he is like Goodie Two Shoes, even if he is outside the 10 metre circle. He has to retreat.
.
Crusaders v Reds
15. Morahan of the Reds kicks a ping pong ball. 10. Lucas in front of him waits to be put onside before advancing then does so after Morahan passes the line where he is. Bryce Lawrence penalises Lucas.
Rough call? No. It is not enough for Lucas to stay where he is like Goodie Two Shoes, even if he is outside the 10 metre circle. He has to retreat.
.
suckerforred
Chilla Wilson (44)
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha [deep breath, read again] Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Tell 'im he's dreamin'!!!
Bruwheresmycar
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
From what I understand the penalty was for 'hands in the ruck'. Gill was perfectly entitled to go for the ball, which he did. Then the counter ruckers came through and knocked him off the ball. Once this happens, Gill is not entitled to grab the ball again, which he did. And caused the penalty.
Whether or not there was a penalty offence before that is kind of irrelevant to this particular point, people coming from the side doesn't justify the flanker having two goes at the ball.
This is from memory though, so I would happily be proved wrong.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Agreed, if that happened but I thought Lawrence said Gill was beaten by the ruck and that formed the premise of my post on the matter.
But even if it did, it doesn't excuse Franks from coming in the side to form the ruck and commit the first infringement, nor the referee who must have seen the angle of Franks' attack against Anae. It was less than 10 metres away from Lawrence and his view was not obscured. Sure, referees make mistakes all the time, like players, but the angle was egregiously illicit and its oversight was a lead changer.
The Reds should have received a penalty one way or the other, not the other way around.
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But even if it did, it doesn't excuse Franks from coming in the side to form the ruck and commit the first infringement, nor the referee who must have seen the angle of Franks' attack against Anae. It was less than 10 metres away from Lawrence and his view was not obscured. Sure, referees make mistakes all the time, like players, but the angle was egregiously illicit and its oversight was a lead changer.
The Reds should have received a penalty one way or the other, not the other way around.
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yourmatesam
Desmond Connor (43)
LG the 10m offside at a kick is no longer a "10m circle" but a 10m zone across the field as per ARU GMG 2012.
The move away from the 10m circle was done away with in order to deal with those players wide of the kick who would advance from an offside position, denying attacking options by cutting down time and space.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
French referees in the Top14
Toulon v Castres
Castres have a scrum on their own 40 metre line with 3 minutes to go and the score is 25-25
EPSN commentator Robbie Knock and co-commentator Simon Mannix chat about the situation. Kiwi Mannix, a one test All Black and ex-backs coach of Racing Metro, is a long time critic of French referees.
Mannix: “Castres – can they get the ball out of this scrum? They don't want to mess around with it, because, I'll tell you what: the referee, if he gets the opportunity, he's going to blow an penalty against Castres. Dare I say it, but it's just one of the factors of French rugby: the home team expect the rub of the green.“
Then referee Patrick Pechambert penalises the Castres' scrum on their own feed.
Knock: “You called it Simon.”
Mannix: “It just annoys me: calling it right, though Robbie. It really frustrates me.”
He then went on to explain that the ref was waiting to give a square-up, implying that he had to give a penalty to the home team, Toulon, because Castres slotted a goal from a scrum penalty earlier and it was Toulon's turn.
Mannix: “(The) first opportunity when (the referee) gets in the half where Toulon have not been for 10 minutes – bang – he calls a penalty. It's so frustrating, because it's so inevitable.”
“.... Its a style of refereeing we see so often in France – and he's reffed pretty well today – up until the key moments in the game (and he thinks): 'The home team had better win, else I can't get out of Toulon alive.'”
Then Jonny Wilkinson missed the winning goal.
That's a bit over the top, but regardless of the merits of that final penalty one can't help but feel that there is a lot in what Mannix says, generally speaking - if you have watched the Top14 for a few years. In the SH we see referees reffing on the vibe at scrum time and they are no worse than referees who try to do things exactly, because they don't.
But refereeing on whose turn it is and where the game is played? Give me the vibe every time.
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Toulon v Castres
Castres have a scrum on their own 40 metre line with 3 minutes to go and the score is 25-25
EPSN commentator Robbie Knock and co-commentator Simon Mannix chat about the situation. Kiwi Mannix, a one test All Black and ex-backs coach of Racing Metro, is a long time critic of French referees.
Mannix: “Castres – can they get the ball out of this scrum? They don't want to mess around with it, because, I'll tell you what: the referee, if he gets the opportunity, he's going to blow an penalty against Castres. Dare I say it, but it's just one of the factors of French rugby: the home team expect the rub of the green.“
Then referee Patrick Pechambert penalises the Castres' scrum on their own feed.
Knock: “You called it Simon.”
Mannix: “It just annoys me: calling it right, though Robbie. It really frustrates me.”
He then went on to explain that the ref was waiting to give a square-up, implying that he had to give a penalty to the home team, Toulon, because Castres slotted a goal from a scrum penalty earlier and it was Toulon's turn.
Mannix: “(The) first opportunity when (the referee) gets in the half where Toulon have not been for 10 minutes – bang – he calls a penalty. It's so frustrating, because it's so inevitable.”
“.... Its a style of refereeing we see so often in France – and he's reffed pretty well today – up until the key moments in the game (and he thinks): 'The home team had better win, else I can't get out of Toulon alive.'”
Then Jonny Wilkinson missed the winning goal.
That's a bit over the top, but regardless of the merits of that final penalty one can't help but feel that there is a lot in what Mannix says, generally speaking - if you have watched the Top14 for a few years. In the SH we see referees reffing on the vibe at scrum time and they are no worse than referees who try to do things exactly, because they don't.
But refereeing on whose turn it is and where the game is played? Give me the vibe every time.
.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Teams have been doing this in the Aviva Premiership all season, particularly Saffacens.
Look at this Conga line - Ridiculous!
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