Rugby - not set pieces

[Lee Grant]

.. so there was 1 completed scrum??

That's how I read it: 14 scrums called and 10 pinged for penalties and 3 for free kicks = 1 left. I watched the game but didn't twig that only one scrum was completed until I read this:

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2830404.htm

Garces has been one of my favourite up and coming referees but it's obvious that he has a bit to learn about the management of the scrum. Penalties and yellow cards have to be used as deterrents and I usually applaud him for doing so, but he has to learn how to manage a game as well.

He had a shocker and the poor scrum completion rate affected the game otherwise too.

 

[spooony]

SCRUM MELTDOWN

The Damning Stats

22 per cent of penalties at the World Cup were awarded at the scrum, second only to the breakdown which accounted for 48 per cent.

27 per cent of scrums at the World Cup resulted in either a penalty or a freekick, compared to only 12 per cent in 2007.

53 seconds is the average time it takes for a scrum to be reset. With 17 scrums per match on average at the World Cup that's 15 minutes a match on scrums.

44 per cent of scrums at this year's Six Nations resulted in a penalty or a free-kick.

54 per cent of scrums at this year's Six Nations collapsed, either forcing a reset, free-kick or penalty.

In the end its inconstancy. Northern Hemisphere referees get excited when they see something wrong in the set pieces. They really try hard to find a infringement somewhere where Southern Hemisphere referees are a bit more relaxed and call what they spot.
But in reality a referee giving a penalty for a infringement in the scrum is guessing. Think they should put them in that position as a front row. When they are busy getting crush by 800kgs of opposing forces maybe they will wake up

Heres a good explanation on the rules

 

[Lee Grant]

Commentators

• Nick Mullins Bath v. London Irish talking about the first rains of the year on New Years Day at “The Rec”: “It's an exposed ground: that stand at the end is known as the Gene Kelly Stand as they're always standing in the rain.”

• Simon Mannix Clermont v. Toulon about Carl Hayman's experience propping in France: “Carl Hayman's first year in France [was] pretty difficult for him, as it is for every prop coming over to play in France because basically: there's so much cheating going on at scrum time, to be blunt about it, but he's adapted well now and he's cheating like the rest of them.”

I thought he was having problems playing for Newcastle in the Premiership too Simon before he crossed over, but I like your story better.

Referees

• Nigel Owens in Munster v. Treviso after ex-Cheetah player, scrummie Tobias Botes of Treviso, was chirping too much at Thomond Park last weekend: “I don't think we've met before, but I'm the referee on this field, not you. Stick to your job and I will do mine. If I hear you shouting for anything again I will be penalising you. This is not soccer. Is that clear?”

Well said Nige. Earlier in the game he mentioned to the opposing props that their side of scrum was OK whenever he was standing there; so the problems when he wasn't there were obviously their fault, not his. Good point.


• Dr. R. Waugh in Australia v NZ 1903 at the SCG. In the Kiwis first “test” match the touch judge put his flag up and all the players stopped, except one, but there was no whistle. Kiwi winger Duncan McGregor went haring off to the tryline with the ball. Dr. Waugh investigated the sprig marks and decided that the player had not gone into touch and awarded a try. Not quite a TMO decision, but it was an innovation at the time.

It's interesting that Australia, despite having 5 Queenslanders in the team, wore the light blue colours of NSW.

 

[BPC]

Heres a good explanation on the rules

I'm sorry, what were you saying. Attention ... wandering ... ...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Commentators


It's interesting that Australia, despite having 5 Queenslanders in the team, wore the light blue colours of NSW.

and for some time they wore "red" when playing in QLD - did they not?

 

[Lee Grant]

Referees

• Well done James Jones in Dragons v. Ospreys the weekend before last, for pinging Ospreys scrummie, Rhys Webb, for baulking a pass from the ruck. It's a law that goes unpunished too often.

• Whilst we are handing out bouquets to referees well done Alain Rolland last Saturday in Scarlets v Northamptom for carding Saints' 12. Tom May in the 3rd minute for lobbing the ball into the face of Scarlets 9. Gareth Davies after the whistle had blown. That stuff gets up my nose.

Another well done: about 15 minutes later when he reversed a Saints penalty after Saints 6. Callum Clark came barrelling into Scarlets ball-runner 6. Aaron Shingler, again after the whistle. Cheap shot Callum; interim England coach Lancaster, who picked you in the 6N squad won't like that lack of discipline.

Good Sports

That was sporting of the Ravenhill crowd whose team, Ulster, thrashed Leicester 41-7 in the Heineken Cup last Friday, to wish the visitors a good trip back to England, near the end of the game. But expressing it in song: “Sweet chariot, coming for to carry me home …” must have got up the Leicester players' noses.

Laws

Ulster v. Leicester – Stefan Terblanche of Ulster, about 37 metres from his goal line kicks through, the ball goes into the Leicester in-goal and defender Billy Twelvetrees squats down on the ground one leg stretched out over touch-in-goal and takes the moving ball and dots it down. After confirming with the AR that the ball was still moving as 12Trees took the ball Romain Poite awards a scrum to Leicester back where the ball was kicked.

That's fine, but 12Trees didn't pick the ball up cleanly: he inadvertently grounded the ball, oh so briefly, before picking it up – a light grounding that could have earned a try for an attacker. It should have been a 22 drop out to Leicester. You see this quite a bit with those stretched out 'pick ups'. Grounding can be momentary.


Test not played in two halves

The 1st Test NZ v Australia in 1913 at Athletic Park was played in heavy rain, and wind, on a muddy pitch, and it was bloody cold too. For some reason the game was played in four quarters. As far as is known this is the only occasion on which a test match has been not been played in two halves.
.

 

[Larno]

A bit of trivia about the Ulster vs. Leicester game over the weekend. It is the heaviest European defeat that Leicester have ever suffered at 41-7, breaking the prior record, a 33-0 defeat suffered in 2004. Those who doled out the previous hiding? Ulster.

 

[Lee Grant]

Well done to your boys Larno. That was a wonderful win on Friday, across the board.

 

[suckerforred]

14 scrums + 5 resets = 19 feeds
From 19 feeds, there were 15 collapses. 5 of these were reset and 10 attracted penalties.
Of the 4 feeds that didn't collapse, 3 had a free kick awarded.. so there was 1 completed scrum??

In the words of LG - Faaaarque

 

[Lee Grant]

Is the power hit worth this? And if some think it is not the power hit which is the main culprit, is it not worth confirming that?

Folks don't want another law change or another tiresome ELV? It's not needed guys: all you need is a clarification of a law that is already there. It says that front rows may not charge into the scrum from a distance. The clarification should make clear that charging in from any distance, even 6 to 12 inches, is an infringement.

Signed
D. Quixote

PS: This is a "not set pieces" thread and scrums are a set piece? Excuuuuuse me.

 

[Lee Grant]

Bobby Fulton v. the All Blacks

Quiz – did Bobby Fulton ever play against the All Blacks? Er, Lee, you may answer, he was a rugby league great, not a rugby union player.

Yes and no. He was undergoing compulsory military service in 1968 and got picked to play in the midfield for Australian Combined Services against NZ at North Sydney Oval. Another league back, Keith Outten, was also in the team, plus a few league forwards. On the day Fulton played against All Black greats Laidlaw, Gray and skipper Lochore.

Kevin Crowe, who, 10 days later, was to famously referee the All Blacks in the 2nd test at Ballymore (the first ever test there), was in the stands. In his interesting book “Whistling Up A Storm” he mentioned that the CS team, especially the leaguies, had trouble with such things as mauls, rucks and lineouts.

He added that Kiwi first-five Neil Wolfe got the ball back once in a looping move, saw Fulton, and decided to step inside him. “Bozo” reverted to his league habits and applied a stiff arm to Wolfe's throat. Whilst Wolfe was being attended to All Black skipper Lochore got his team together and within earshot of Crowe in the stands said: “I want him [Fulton] in a ruck, first opportunity.”

It didn't take long for the backs to show him a nice gap to go through and be flattened by cover. Crowe wrote: ”Then the forwards slowly put him through the mincer and spat him out the back of the ruck.”

The All Blacks won 45-8.

 

[Lee Grant]

I see that Will Chambers is going back to the Melbourne Storm after his stint with Munster. He played quite well starting a few times when the RWC players were away and even when he came off the bench when they were back.

I bet the Oz league press will put a bit of spin on this.

 

[Sully]

They have already started. He was an integral part of qld's title before a highly successful stint in Europe. According to the courier mail at least.


Sent using Tapatalk on a very old phone

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Lee - regarding your post about Fulton:

I would have loved to see bozo play union with some proper preparation: he is the best I have seen.
I would love to see thurston give it a try and Brett Kenny would have been very handy.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Lee Grant]

He would have been a wonderful union player - a bit like Horan but also running the backline. Lockyer would have been great too - and Kenny, as you say - as laid back as Barry John or Bernie and a better runner than either.

But we could go on and on.

 

[Lee Grant]

Commentators

• During Northampton v. Munster Mark Robson said:”Here's O'Gara [passing] for O'Connell; the apostrophes are working well together.” They were too.

• Scotland v England ex-England hooker Brian Moore talked about a not-straight throw: “It was considerably straighter than any Scottish or English put-in to any scrum you'll see, but it was not straight enough for a lineout, where there are obviously different rules regarding straightness.” That's an old song we sing Brian.

• Was watching last years' Reds v. Force Rd.1 game. Chambers was carded just before oranges for throwing a punch against the baiting Force scrummie Sheehan. Greg Martin said: “A wingers punch? That should be only 5 minutes.” He has a point.


Future Star

Anybody heard of the French Territory of the Wallis and Futuna Islands? If so, I bet you were the class swot.

Anyway, there's a young lad from there, Christopher Tolofu, who is a hooker for the Toulouse juniors and is in the French academy. But Toulouse had a hooking crisis because Servat was off with the French squad, G. Botha was out for months and two Georgians (one a replacement) were crocked also.

Enter Tolofu, who turned 18 just a month ago, to start in his first Top14 match v. Racing Metro in Paris. At 117kgs he was a human wrecking ball. One of his runs in the game is seen here:

 

[suckerforred]

Future Star

Anybody heard of the French Territory of the Wallis and Futuna Islands? If so, I bet you were the class swot.

Anyway, there's a young lad from there, Christopher Tolofu, who is a hooker for the Toulouse juniors and is in the French academy. But Toulouse had a hooking crisis because Servat was off with the French squad, G. Botha was out for months and two Georgians (one a replacement) were crocked also.

Enter Tolofu, who turned 18 just a month ago, to start in his first Top14 match v. Racing Metro in Paris. At 117kgs he was a human wrecking ball. One of his runs in the game is seen here:

Yep. Probably. I just put it down to reading a lot.

And that is a Tongan side step if ever I have seen one!

 

[Lee Grant]

Doggone it

Was just watching a recording of the 3rd test at Athletic Park between the All Blacks and the 1971 British and Irish Lions, one of the great sides in the history of the sport.

It was grand to see those greats again: 9. Edwards, 10. John, 13. Gibson, 15. JPR, 11. Duckham, 14. Davies and 5. Willie John McBride. It was refreshing to see stable scrums: guys straining, taking the pressure, staying on the mark, and the scrummie walking over with the ball and putting it into the scrum for it to start with a power push. There was also the odd tight head, which was not from a lock kicking the ball forward from a too generous feed.

It was interesting that referees reversed decisions then too. The Kiwis got a scrum penalty and 3. "Jazz" Muller gave the Lions a serve; so referee John Pring reversed the penalty – but the kick missed.

But that is bye the bye. The interesting part was when the All Blacks were behind 3-13 near the end of the game and trying to get some respectability.

The commentary was as follows:
David Williams: “….. Mains ..Duncan... he tripped over a dog: Joseph has tripped over a dog, believe it or not”
Gary Hermanson: “It's almost Gilbert & Sullivan stuff.”
David Williams: “The dog has disappeared.”

Dog gone? I would have too: it was a promising move. But it just goes to show the benefits of going in low: Joseph, the All Black 13, when over like a sack of spuds.
.

 

[lincoln]

Watching the 6N highlights on Setanta and the commentator is a very intense and buff Matt Williams - no doubt trying to forge a career in media that will take him to CEO of the SMH where he will confront his nemesis and put us all out of our misery.

BTW He is providing some excellent analysis on the Ire v Wal game and I am not sure whether he is supposed to be the talking head or the expert analyst (neither for that matter is Neil Francis, his co-commentator).

He has just tried to workout the collective noun for a bunch of Donnachas - quiet droll really - looking forward to more of his work.

We are now on to the Stalag 13 deep cooling room and how the Welsh seemingly came out of it in very good shape - this could be an excellent thread.

He has just caught the Irish defence with their pants down - this is pure gold.

I hope Foxsports is watching this - Matt is Rod K, Phil K, Greg M rolled into one - must be cheaper and certainly a better looking face for TV than two of those gentlemen.

"Scotland needed to win for the good of rugby" Matt Williams, quote of the week?
"Any SuperXV side would have beaten either of these teams" Neil Francis
"Why try a three pass move off a line out when you can't do a one pass move" MW
Scotland just fluffed a two on one and even NF (a forward) was able to state thaT all you needed was to draw the FB away from your support.
Rabble, worst team ever etc - these guys are really calling it as they see it - very refreshing in an increasingly PC world.
NF has just suggested fixing the septic tank could be a more fulfilling experience than watching Eng v Sco

Have just cracked a pinotage, a brie, and a French stick to fully enjoy this programme.

It would seem MW is now an honorary Irishman - may need to do something about his surname to cement that honour.

Apparently France has the game to win the 6Ns - they employ a shooter in the backline - love it.

Over and out

 

[Bruce Ross]

Watching the 6N highlights on Setanta and the commentator is a very intense and buff Matt Williams - no doubt trying to forge a career in media

I'd like to see him kick on. I've always thought he was a good bloke with sound rugby knowledge.