Rugby News from unexpected places

[Wilson]

Wouldn't sit well, but I guess they could each recruit ~50 promising young players from poorer rugby nations by 2030 to live and play there in a professional environment so that they're all eligible by 2035. Qatar have done something similar, on a bigger scale, for their soccer team (and they've won the last 2 Asian Cups).

Yeah, that'd rankle enough if one was doing it, but if it's all 3 at once there will be uproar. I don't think the player market is anywhere near large enough to support it, it's nothing near what soccer has and you need a lot more players to build out squads/comps. Would probably even piss the bigger nations off too - the French wouldn't be happy to have the competition for Pasifika talent for example. Might end up hurting any building up of the tier 2 nations world rugby is trying to do with the expanded world cups too.

 

[Highlander35]

Saudi is everywhere, if they're serious, I can't see how they don't get something

 

[Dctarget]

Wouldn't sit well, but I guess they could each recruit ~50 promising young players from poorer rugby nations by 2030 to live and play there in a professional environment so that they're all eligible by 2035. Qatar have done something similar, on a bigger scale, for their soccer team (and they've won the last 2 Asian Cups).

How is this any different from France and Japan right now? France is signing 16 year old props from Australia. They probably sign at least 10 young Aussie teens a year.

 

[Wilson]

How is this any different from France and Japan right now? France is signing 16 year old props from Australia. They probably sign at least 10 young Aussie teens a year.

It's definitely in the same vein, but it's much more artificial without an established comp to support them, and only a small fraction of those ever get capped for either side (especially France). What we're talking about here would be almost complete builds of 3 international teams, with little hope of legacy.

 

[Omar Comin']

Yeah, that'd rankle enough if one was doing it, but if it's all 3 at once there will be uproar. I don't think the player market is anywhere near large enough to support it, it's nothing near what soccer has and you need a lot more players to build out squads/comps. Would probably even piss the bigger nations off too - the French wouldn't be happy to have the competition for Pasifika talent for example. Might end up hurting any building up of the tier 2 nations world rugby is trying to do with the expanded world cups too.

I think the player market is probably big enough, especially if they're only recruiting for 1 or 2 teams each rather than for a league of teams in each country.

I'd think South Africa would be the primary source of talent. If you think about the size of their player pool they have relatively few top level professional opportunities (just compare it to the number of rugby and rugby league contracts available to Australians and Kiwis). And their guys on the fringes of making it would be cheaper to recruit to middle eastern countries than players from wealthier nations.

Add in some Georgians, South Americans and Pasifika talent and you could pretty easily create a world cup quality team (i.e. on par or a little stronger than the lowest ranked teams that play in the world cup now). It would just feel very artificial.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is it really feasible though? You'd basically need to recruit a professional team well over 5 years out that is going to live there fulltime (potentially with their family if they have one). As the players qualify there could start being test matches as well.

Who do they play as the professional team? The other two gulf states?

How many players do you need to recruit at the start to ensure that you have enough when it comes time for the event when considering players leaving and injuries?

How much would you need to pay someone who is a decent rugby player to do something which is likely to be incredibly isolating etc.?

 

[Wilson]

I think the player market is probably big enough, especially if they're only recruiting for 1 or 2 teams each rather than for a league of teams in each country.

I'd think South Africa would be the primary source of talent. If you think about the size of their player pool they have relatively few top level professional opportunities (just compare it to the number of rugby and rugby league contracts available to Australians and Kiwis). And their guys on the fringes of making it would be cheaper to recruit to middle eastern countries than players from wealthier nations.

Add in some Georgians, South Americans and Pasifika talent and you could pretty easily create a world cup quality team (i.e. on par or a little stronger than the lowest ranked teams that play in the world cup now). It would just feel very artificial.

Artificial, and massively inflationary - you're going to pay overs for every one of these players and that will have big flow on effects in the market as a whole. That might be acceptable if there was a solid chance that it would establish an ongoing professional competition that would produce and develop it's own talent, but something but there's no evidence of that in the middle east. This would just end up being a massive bubble in the player market set to burst post world cup, and it would threaten the stability of all the other nascent pro comps currently being built - MLR, SLAR, etc.

It is probably a moot point though, any realistic bid will just waive the hosts right to participation, these countries aren't bidding via their national unions in the hope of growing the game, they're looking for a platform to advertise themselves to the world.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Is it really feasible though? You'd basically need to recruit a professional team well over 5 years out that is going to live there fulltime (potentially with their family if they have one). As the players qualify there could start being test matches as well.

Who do they play as the professional team? The other two gulf states?

How many players do you need to recruit at the start to ensure that you have enough when it comes time for the event when considering players leaving and injuries?

How much would you need to pay someone who is a decent rugby player to do something which is likely to be incredibly isolating etc.?

Ask Twiggy. Joking.....

Another Monday tangent on here it seems. If they were genuine about it money is no object to them which can persuade most they could go after.

 

[Wilson]

Probably also worth getting into the other sticking points with this raised in the roar article - change in schedule, and no beer:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2025/04/...WR (World Rugby)-coffers-but-what-about-fans/

If they are successful, the Gulf states would push for their World Cup to start in December, with a final in January, as it is far too hot when the tournament is usually staged, in September and October.

That would impact the wider calendar – including the upcoming Nations Cup, European club rugby and the Six Nations.
....
Saudi Arabia has already made it clear that drinking won’t be allowed in 2034 when they host the football tournament.

“Rather like our weather, it’s a dry country. At the moment, we don’t allow alcohol, but plenty of fun can be had without it. It’s not 100% necessary,” the Saudi ambassador to the UK, Prince Khalid bin Bandar bin Sultan Al Saud, told British media last month.

“If you want to drink after you leave, you’re welcome to, but at the moment, we don’t have alcohol,” he added.

Compensation will have to be astronomical for the 6 nations block to shift their schedule. Knowing that they won't be able to drink when they travel will put their fans further offside too. As @Braveheart81 said, they'll need to double it and double it again for this to be worthwhile.

 

[Omar Comin']

Is it really feasible though? You'd basically need to recruit a professional team well over 5 years out that is going to live there fulltime (potentially with their family if they have one). As the players qualify there could start being test matches as well.

At one end of the spectrum they don't have much trouble recruiting many thousands of construction and service workers from poor countries, and at the other they also don't have much trouble recruiting highly paid professionals from western countries either. A couple hundred rugby players (especially if targeting poorer nations) is probably not too big a challenge.

I guess they could create say a 6-8 team Middle Eastern league for them to play in. The money wouldn't be a problem. Thinking this through further, if they really wanted to they could spend a drop in the ocean compared to what they spend on soccer, and create quarter final level rugby teams.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I can see it already.

Mohammed bin Salman welcomes you to the Sydney any and Brisbane GPS Rugby season and every player is funnelled to the Middle East. I guess we wouldn't complain about the NRL anymore...

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

At one end of the spectrum they don't have much trouble recruiting many thousands of construction and service workers from poor countries, and at the other they also don't have much trouble recruiting highly paid professionals from western countries either. A couple hundred rugby players (especially if targeting poorer nations) is probably not too big a challenge.

I guess they could create say a 6-8 team Middle Eastern league for them to play in. The money wouldn't be a problem. Thinking this through further, if they really wanted to they could spend a drop in the ocean compared to what they spend on soccer, and create quarter final level rugby teams.

The head of Rugby Asia is an Emirati and has been push a franchise concept in the future.

 

[Wilson]

A much more realistic option for 2025 has emerged - Spain:

Surprise nation emerges as front-runner to host 2035 Rugby World Cup

World Rugby are keen to bring the competition back to Europe after the next two tournaments in Australia and the USA, with discussions already underway.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Strikes a good balance between supporting a growing rugby nation and potential profit, while also bringing the world cup back to Europe after 2 iterations away from it. Hopefully this also helps a Japanese bid build momentum for 2039 to come in ahead of UAE/Qatar/Saudi.

 

[LeCheese]

A much more realistic option for 2025 has emerged - Spain:

Surprise nation emerges as front-runner to host 2035 Rugby World Cup

World Rugby are keen to bring the competition back to Europe after the next two tournaments in Australia and the USA, with discussions already underway.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Strikes a good balance between supporting a growing rugby nation and potential profit, while also bringing the world cup back to Europe after 2 iterations away from it. Hopefully this also helps a Japanese bid build momentum for 2039 to come in ahead of UAE/Qatar/Saudi.

Isn't there (rightly or wrongly) an enormous public pushback on tourism in Spain at the moment? Can't imagine bidding for a big global event would go down too well.

 

[Wilson]

Isn't there (rightly or wrongly) an enormous public pushback on tourism in Spain at the moment? Can't imagine bidding for a big global event would go down too well.

Yes-ish, but it's a bit more complicated then that. Chiefly it's about housing and the push back is against AirBnBs/Holiday rentals, but that does flow through towards animosity towards tourism. It's still a massive part of the economy and it's not as simple as turning off the tap. It's also more pronounced in the mid-sized beach cities like Malaga that are really feeling the pinch (Palma in Majorca is another, but it's been a problem for much longer and it doesn't get as much attention on the mainland). It's an issue repeated to varying degrees all across Europe at the moment.

It's definitely a tricky thing to navigate and will probably play a role in the bid, but done right large events are a key piece of charting the course out of the crises and they give the government a chance to actually lay down the policy and planning they need to solve the issue. But I'm also speaking from a fair way outside, I don't really know how the problems are being or will be politically leveraged over the next 5-10 years.

 

[Dctarget]

Spain would be elite. Rotate them between the Aus-Japan-France-Italy-Spain and I'm happy.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

A much more realistic option for 2025 has emerged - Spain:

Surprise nation emerges as front-runner to host 2035 Rugby World Cup

World Rugby are keen to bring the competition back to Europe after the next two tournaments in Australia and the USA, with discussions already underway.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Strikes a good balance between supporting a growing rugby nation and potential profit, while also bringing the world cup back to Europe after 2 iterations away from it. Hopefully this also helps a Japanese bid build momentum for 2039 to come in ahead of UAE/Qatar/Saudi.

Spain's been working toward a budget for a while. Initially it was going to be a joint bid with Portugal but the Portuguese Unions president put his foot in it trying to claim credit when the impetus was from Spain and did themselves out of the deal.

 

[Sword of Justice]

I’m not sure Spain would be that high on my wish list tbf considering the tourist experience in recent years as well as the social attitude to visitors for a sport most of them care nought about.

But what are the alternatives? New Zealand would remain a top choice but are they willing to work with WR (World Rugby) in these uncertain times.

 

[Dctarget]

I’m not sure Spain would be that high on my wish list tbf considering the tourist experience in recent years as well as the social attitude to visitors for a sport most of them care nought about.

They care more about it than the Americans! Surely Spain would be great, just learn to se por favor and gracias and you're off. Cold beers with paella at the Barcelona port then meander down to one of the best rectangular stadiums in the world.

 

[Sword of Justice]

They care more about it than the Americans! Surely Spain would be great, just learn to se por favor and gracias and you're off. Cold beers with paella at the Barcelona port then meander down to one of the best rectangular stadiums in the world.

Certainly I’d prefer to be in Spain than the USA. However, Barcelona is actually exactly where I would be most worried about going to in Spain, especially around large crowds of fans having fun. I don’t like buying new iPhones and going to the consulate for emergency passports.

I’m not trying to bag them, Rome is similar and I’ve never had a problem there myself and I’m going back this year but I would definitely have to change my behaviour from how I would like to experience a RWC.

Japan and NZ most elite candidates in my view given they’re smaller geographically. Followed by Aus and Canada probably with the UK and France after given I would find that a lot easier to navigate even with some dodgy areas.